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Thickened Bladder wall? Is there any treatment?

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Loralay93

New Born Pup
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Istanbul, Turkey
Hi Everyone
My piggy has been having sludges in her urine for over a month. She's taken antibiotics for 5 days with lots of fluid to wash her bladder, but she still had sludges and sometimes blood in her urine after the treatment. They used a catheter to flush her bladder twice. Last time they used a catheter, blood kept coming from her bladder. They took an x-ray and found that her bladder wall got thickened. Our vet said Surgery is necessary. I asked why don't we use more antibiotics to cure inflammation because I believe inflammation causes sludges in the bladder, blood in urine, and pain while pooping and peeing.
According to our vet, inflammation is a secondary effect, and sludge in the bladder causes inflammation. So, my piggy went down on a surgery yesterday. They washed her bladder. The vet told me they found lots of sludge in her bladder, however she didn't send me a photo. Should I ask for it?
According to our vet, my piggy's bladder wall needs lots of time to get back to normal. There should be a medicine to help recovery I guess. Can someone help me so I can suggest it to the vet?
 
I've been using a glucosamine supplement with my piggy with a thickened bladder wall, he had bladder stone surgery back in October and suffers with a degenerative condition that effects his bones and alters the way he stands to empty his bladder causing sludge to build up. The glucosamine helps to support the bladder lining which should help ease some inflammation over time. He is also on a pretty good dose of meloxicam/metacam for his other condition which is also an anti inflammatory and a painkiller. In combination I would imagine that's a pretty good starting point.

Most people use cystease which is a feline glucosamine supplement. I personally use a vegan liquid one from healthspan but I've not seen many others doing so.
 
Loralay93 said:
Hi Everyone
My piggy has been having sludges in her urine for over a month. She's taken antibiotics for 5 days with lots of fluid to wash her bladder, but she still had sludges and sometimes blood in her urine after the treatment. They used a catheter to flush her bladder twice. Last time they used a catheter, blood kept coming from her bladder. They took an x-ray and found that her bladder wall got thickened. Our vet said Surgery is necessary. I asked why don't we use more antibiotics to cure inflammation because I believe inflammation causes sludges in the bladder, blood in urine, and pain while pooping and peeing.
According to our vet, inflammation is a secondary effect, and sludge in the bladder causes inflammation. So, my piggy went down on a surgery yesterday. They washed her bladder. The vet told me they found lots of sludge in her bladder, however she didn't send me a photo. Should I ask for it?
According to our vet, my piggy's bladder wall needs lots of time to get back to normal. There should be a medicine to help recovery I guess. Can someone help me so I can suggest it to the vet?
Click to expand...

Hi!

Your vet is right that the inflammation in the thickened bladder walls is a secondary effect from the constant banging of the sludge against the walls everytime your piggy pees. It will take a long time to recover. Vets are not obliged to provide a picture of the x-ray but you can ask for one if you really wish to.

What you really should concentrate on is the diet you feed your guinea pigs in order to minimise the risk of another build up of sludge. Filtering your and reducing the amount of pellets to 1 tablespoon per piggy per day is the more important bit (as water and pellets are the food groups most calcium comes with) but you may also try to avoid overfeeding the really high calcium veg and stay off some food groups entirely. Please ensure that your guinea pigs have at all times access to grass hay like timothy hay.
Please be aware that dietary changes are a long term and not a quick fix. It will take weeks for them to come through fully but they are crucial for the long term health.
Our diet guide will help you. It has got recommendations for guinea pigs with long term urinary tract problems.
Here is the is the link: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

What you can ask your vet for is an analgesic like metacam (and its various brand names) if you haven't been given any. this to help ease the pain and inflammation in the bladder walls.
The other measure you can take, which will help in the longer term to relax the bladder again to some degree is glucosamine. It helps to replenish the natural glucosamine coating of the walls of urinary tract, which has had a bad bashing. Glucosamine is not a medication but is classed as a food supplement. Ideally you look for glucosamine based cat bladder supplements; the ones in capsule form are easiest to deal with.
Again, this is not a quick fix but one that will make a real difference in the long term.

Please keep in mind that inflammation and infection are two different things. An antibiotic only works again the bacteria that are causing the latter. it won't do anything for the first.

I hope that this helps you?
 
I agree with both the above replies. Metacam (anti inflammatory) and some glucosamine (I use cystease) together with filtered water, low calcium diet and grain free pellets. It’s a multi faceted approach to helping with recurring bladder issues.
 
Hello again!

Thank you so much for your answers, I appreciated 🙏 . I'll ask her glucosamine.

About a year ago, my piggy had the same problem (sludges in the urine) and we switched her diet into a low calcium diet. She's been on a low calcium diet for a long time and then this happened. I'll check that link thank you. She drinks bottled water. Maybe I need to filter it, I don't know.

I took my piggy from the vet today. She is home now and looks fine :). I've been giving her Metacam for 2 weeks. Her stitches will be removed next Thursday. So I'll continue to give her Metacam one more week too.
 
My piggy lost some weight during May. She is in post surgery period now. How can I help her to gain weight?

She was 1050g in April, she is now 890-900g. When I pet her back, I can feel her bones 🥺.
 
You will need to weigh her daily (at the same time) for now and syringe feed her to help her maintain/gain weight. How much did she weigh pre surgery, or last week?
 
She was 920g before the surgery.
I don’t have that kind of food in my house, but I can ask from our vet I guess. On the first day after the surgery, they syringe fed her.

I’m trying to encourage her to eat her hay.
 
Loralay93 said:
She was 920g before the surgery.
I don’t have that kind of food in my house, but I can ask from our vet I guess. On the first day after the surgery, they syringe fed her.

I’m trying to encourage her to eat her hay.
Click to expand...

You can make a syringe feed using her own pellets soaked in warm water and then syringe feed it to her,
 
it’s better if you can buy some grass based pellets and use those. Muesli isn’t recommended anyway because of selective feeding and containing things that shouldn’t be fed to piggies.
 
Yes I know that, however they don’t sell pellets for guinea pigs in Turkey :(. I feed herwith pellets in the mix (occasionally).
 
Loralay93 said:
Yes I know that, however they don’t sell pellets for guinea pigs in Turkey :(. I feed herwith pellets in the mix (occasionally).
Click to expand...
Is she a lone pig? Sorry I can’t remember 😬
 
Loralay93 said:
🙂 Well yes, she doesn’t have a pig companion.
Click to expand...
I was going to suggest using her companions poo for poo soup.
Once you have her well it would be a good idea to get her a friend. They’re not meant to live alone.

Otherwise I hope it all eases up and becomes manageable.
 
Siikibam said:
I was going to suggest using her companions poo for poo soup.
Once you have her well it would be a good idea to get her a friend. They’re not meant to live alone.

Otherwise I hope it all eases up and becomes manageable.
Click to expand...

I wanted to get her a friend, but she fights a lot with other pigs.
I spend lots of time with my pig during the day. Her vet said that I could be her friend if I spend lots of time with her.
 
No amount of human interaction can replace the relationship she would have with other piggies. You won’t know all the little nuances of a guinea pig bond, not even experienced owners can.

The best way to get her a friend is to try and go to a rescue that offers dating. She doesn’t get on with the other pigs (how many have you tried her with). Character match is really important.

Sorry for the derailment but I think it’s important.
 
Loralay93 said:
I wanted to get her a friend, but she fights a lot with other pigs.
I spend lots of time with my pig during the day. Her vet said that I could be her friend if I spend lots of time with her.
Click to expand...

Hi!

Your girl sounds like she has massive fear-aggression issues. Good that you have tried to find her a companion.
You may find this guide here helpful in looking after single guinea pigs in a range of different situations and the various challenges that poses. The last chapter deals with the transfer of social guinea pig expections in their interaction with humans and how that comes across to us. You should find that very interesting.
Single Guinea Pigs - Challenges and Responsibilities
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics (includes a chapter on fear-aggression and lots of key social behaviour pictures)
Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering And Cuddling Tips

The weight loss is within acceptable bounds. the weight should come slowly back on its own as the body is settling down and healing. If you can feed plain porridge oats (i.e. rolled oats without any additions), that would help with the weight although I would concentrate more on a good diet than on the weight as long as the current weight is stable.

PLEASE give the glucosamine (you can even use human glucosamine tablets for athritis if necessary) and PLEASE filter the water! More calcium comes from water and from pellets/muesli than from veg.
PLEASE read our diet guide! The UK is a hard water country, so we are seeing lots of piggies with bladder stones and sludge; our diet recommendations work. I haven't haven't had a bladder stone piggy for nearly 7 seven years since I started filtering my water and reducing the amount of pellets to encourage my piggies to eat more hay - and I live in a bad area for stones. It REALLY can make all the difference!
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets
Weight - Monitoring and Management
Tips For Post-operative Care
 
Wiebke said:
Hi!

Your girl sounds like she has massive fear-aggression issues. Good that you have tried to find her a companion.
You may find this guide here helpful in looking after single guinea pigs in a range of different situations and the various challenges that poses. The last chapter deals with the transfer of social guinea pig expections in their interaction with humans and how that comes across to us. You should find that very interesting.
Single Guinea Pigs - Challenges and Responsibilities
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics (includes a chapter on fear-aggression and lots of key social behaviour pictures)
Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering And Cuddling Tips

The weight loss is within acceptable bounds. the weight should come slowly back on its own as the body is settling down and healing. If you can feed plain porridge oats (i.e. rolled oats without any additions), that would help with the weight although I would concentrate more on a good diet than on the weight as long as the current weight is stable.

PLEASE give the glucosamine (you can even use human glucosamine tablets for athritis if necessary) and PLEASE filter the water! More calcium comes from water and from pellets/muesli than from veg.
PLEASE read our diet guide! The UK is a hard water country, so we are seeing lots of piggies with bladder stones and sludge; our diet recommendations work. I haven't haven't had a bladder stone piggy for nearly 7 seven years since I started filtering my water and reducing the amount of pellets to encourage my piggies to eat more hay - and I live in a bad area for stones. It REALLY can make all the difference!
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets
Weight - Monitoring and Management
Tips For Post-operative Care
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply🤗.

How do you filter the water? I bought water filter pitcher. Does this work?

I asked vet about glucosamine. She said its effect has not been proven yet🤨. Can I give her by myself?
 
Loralay93 said:
Thank you for your reply🤗.

How do you filter the water? I bought water filter pitcher. Does this work?

I asked vet about glucosamine. She said its effect has not been proven yet🤨. Can I give her by myself?
Click to expand...

I use a Brita water filter jug like this one. It helps to filter out enough calcium and minerals to make the crucial difference. other forum members have also noticed that there own bladder problems stopped after they started filtering. It is not enough for a very few who needed to switch to bottled low calcium water (not quite easy to come by). It also depends on what is wrong with the calcium absorption process.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/BRITA-Marella-water-filter-MAXTRA/dp/B01MXSHEKB/

Yes, you can give the glucosamine by itself. It DOES work - not immediately and with no visible effects but you usually notice that symptoms of a cystitis can recur when you stop it; so it really makes a difference. Please see what you can get hold of and we can help you work out the dosage.
 
Wiebke said:
I use a Brita water filter jug like this one. It helps to filter out enough calcium and minerals to make the crucial difference. other forum members have also noticed that there own bladder problems stopped after they started filtering. It is not enough for a very few who needed to switch to bottled low calcium water (not quite easy to come by). It also depends on what is wrong with the calcium absorption process.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/BRITA-Marella-water-filter-MAXTRA/dp/B01MXSHEKB/

Yes, you can give the glucosamine by itself. It DOES work - not immediately and with no visible effects but you usually notice that symptoms of a cystitis can recur when you stop it; so it really makes a difference. Please see what you can get hold of and we can help you work out the dosage.
Click to expand...

Good, I bought the same product.
I’ll check what I can find and get back to you🙏🏻.

Is she going to use glucosamine during all her lifespan?
 
Loralay93 said:
Good, I bought the same product.
I’ll check what I can find and get back to you🙏🏻.

Is she going to use glucosamine during all her lifespan?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, but she may need it for a few months to help with the healing process of the bladder. You won't get rid of the thickened walls completely but a traumatised bladder can over time relax again to some degree as I know from my own experiences. The glucosamine will help with that.
 
Wiebke said:
Not necessarily, but she may need it for a few months to help with the healing process of the bladder. You won't get rid of the thickened walls completely but a traumatised bladder can over time relax again to some degree as I know from my own experiences. The glucosamine will help with that.
Click to expand...

I looked for it. I couldn’t find glucosamine for rodents. Some websites sell dog glucosamine like "Excel, joint care glucosamine + MSM", but I don't know if they are vegan.

I found Solgar’s different vegan products in Turkey; I know these are for humans, but maybe it will work.

One is called glucosamine chondroitin complex. I couldn't find this product on Solgar's international website. One tablet has 500 mg Glucosamine sulfate, 500 mg Chondroitin Sulfate, 81.5 mg Vitamin C (as calcium ascorbate), 1 mg Manganese (as manganese amino acid chelate).

The other one is Glucosamine Chondroitin MSM. here's the English link: Triple Strength Glucosamine Chondroitin MSM (Shellfish-Free) Tablets - Solgar

And the last one is called Glucosamine Sulfate 1000mg.
 
Hello again, I talked with our vet, I needed to find liquid glucosamine. I couldn’t find any. She suggested Marnys cistomar (MARNYS Cistomar. Cranberry capsules and syrup). It may help in a long term use.

She also mentioned a product to me called Urinovet which contains cranberry, glucosamine and some other stuff that I don’t know what they are. It is for cats.

Does anyone know anything about it?
 
I use catease or cystease for my bladder piggie as recommended by my vet, both available on line you don't need a prescription. I've not heard of Urinovet.
 
piggieminder said:
I use catease or cystease for my bladder piggie as recommended by my vet, both available on line you don't need a prescription. I've not heard of Urinovet.
Click to expand...

They are nearly impossible to find in Turkey. We'll try Urinovet. It looks like I don't have any other options.
Ingredients: parsley, cranberry, nettle leaf (Urtica L) and valerian root extract, glucosamine, petroselini radix, DL-methionine, Vitamin C, and vitamin B6.
 
It looks like all the things we've done are not enough to treat her problems. She started to squeak while urinating and pooping, although she is taking Metacam every day. Also, the most disappointing part is that sludges in her urine came back :(. I really don't know what to do more :(.
 
Hello everyone.
I came with a couple of questions.
I asked other vets about the product called Urinovet. They didn't suggest this product to use for guinea pigs. I guess our vet doesn't know much about glucosamine and its dosage. Other vets said this might cause more crystals or other problems. Therefore, I stopped giving it to my baby.
However, I still think it is necessary to give glucosamine. I found a product is produced in Turkey. It is called glucosamine Type II plus. Ingredients: Glucosamine, chondroitin, type II collagen, hyaluronic acid, MSM (Methylsulfonylmethane).
Does anyone know if this is safe for guinea pigs?

My other question is about urine and blood tests. I took my baby to another vet to get a second opinion, and they said urine and blood tests are necessary. I asked our vet about it. She said it is hard to do it, and If JLo is okay, then no need to hurt her. After that, I called the veterinary faculty. They said you need to know what kind of crystals (it can vary) she has. If they take a urine sample directly from the bladder, we can also understand the condition of kidneys because she used Metacam for over a month.

Any suggestions or experiences on this?
 
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