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The bladder stone issue..

Celias133

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Hello,

I am Collin and together with my wife we own 2 guinea pigs (brothers)

Our guinea Chase was diagnosed with a bladderstone 5 weeks ago. A week later we had it removed and luckily the surgery went well and he felt like himself again in about 24 hours. For 3,5 weeks it has been going well. We completely changed his diet to low calcium and give him medication prescribed by our vet to (hopefully) prevent it from happening again… but 3/4 days ago i could hear him cry out in pain again while urinating and he once again has bloody urine. This is exactly what his first bladder stone experience looked like so i can only be afraid. Is it common for a guinea pig to develop a stone again so soon?

Chase and clover are two brother guinea pigs born in april 2021 so they are pretty young still.
 
Hello and welcome. Some piggies can be genetically predisposed to having bladder stones. And sometimes it can be down to diet. Do bear in mind that a change in diet can take a while to ‘filter through’ if that makes sense.

Pellets and water contribute most to calcium in the diet. Hence the recommendation to filter water and give only a tablespoon of pellets each a day.

Poor boy, he is young so hopefully that should work for him. Someone with more knowledge will be along in good time with a more comprehensive answer.

Have a look at the link I’ve posted below. And the feeding guide - particularly the section on special dietary needs. All the best and let us know how you get on with the vet.
Feeding the guinea pigs at TEAS
 
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Hi and welcome
I am very sorry; the first weeks after a bladder stone op are the most critical since dietary measures will take more time to filter through the system than most people expect since calcium absorption is a very complex process; it is not a quick fix but a long term measure that will hopefully go a long way towards minimising the risk of more stones further down the line. If there is a genetic predisposition, or a part of the aborption process has permanently gone wrong, then diet changes are less effective than if the stones are diet related.

Please be aware that much more calcium comes via pellets and water. Even no added calcium pellets still contain noticeably more calcium weight for weight than the veg highest in calcium, kale. Filtered water can help since it is not just hard water but also minerals that can contribute to the formation of stones. In extreme cases, low calcium bottled water may be a better option.
Please also be aware that oxalates in the diet also play a role in the formation of stones. It is not just about cutting out all calcium; removing any foods high in oxalates is also important. A diet too low in calcium can cause problems as much as one too high; there is a soft spot you want to hit but since it depends on local factors, there is not just a one size fits all recipe that works everywhere.
Our chapter on special diets contains more detailed in information. We are keeping it updated if new insights are coming along: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Wishing you Chase and you all the best!
 
Hello again and thanks for the replies,

We had a scan and yes: a new stone. This kinda really sucks. Because his surgery was only 4 weeks ago they do not yet want to operate. The clinic wants to wait two more weeks and untill then, medication to make him pee more and with more pressure. The reason for the pee pills is that hopefully he can flush it out. The stone is really small so that will maybe pass through but i’m not sure. I always weigh all the low calcium veggies and switched to low calcium pellets that he gets in moderation, low calcium hay… but it happened anyways. As far as the vet could tell it seems to not so much be a diet problem but more a genetic problem. I really hope we can get rid of this condition some day.
 
Hello again and thanks for the replies,

We had a scan and yes: a new stone. This kinda really sucks. Because his surgery was only 4 weeks ago they do not yet want to operate. The clinic wants to wait two more weeks and untill then, medication to make him pee more and with more pressure. The reason for the pee pills is that hopefully he can flush it out. The stone is really small so that will maybe pass through but i’m not sure. I always weigh all the low calcium veggies and switched to low calcium pellets that he gets in moderation, low calcium hay… but it happened anyways. As far as the vet could tell it seems to not so much be a diet problem but more a genetic problem. I really hope we can get rid of this condition some day.

Fingers firmly crossed! Hopefully a very small stone can be peed out.

Please follow our diet tips, filter the water and reduce the pellets to just 1 tablespoon per piggy per day, as we recommend for all piggies over 4 months to help. It doesn't matter whether they are no added calcium or not; any pellets are still much higher in calcium than any veg you are feeding! We have done our research in this respect and have checked out the calcium levels. Not overfeeding on pellets will also contribute to a longer life span in healthy piggies.
In 15 years on this lively forum and with personal ownership experience going back in cases half a century, we have had time to test out what works and what not in the longer term; especially with being regularly contacted over bladder stones. I've only had one bladder stone piggy in around 50 in coming up to a decade - and that stone was in the wake of fresh veg supply shortages in the first Lockdown (and only one in nearly 30 piggies). My experience echoes that of other long term members.

Please also stay off certain food groups re. veg for good (rich in oxalates); this will help to minimise the formation of further stones. Low in calcium doesn't necessarily mean that it is good for a bladder piggy; it is more complicated than that.
PLEASE read our diet links in this thread - they can really make the difference between more stones or not in the longer term.
 
Hello again, it has been awhile

Chase had his second bladderstone removed june 22. This time the surgery had more impact on him, took several days to recover. With that said: he feels great again by now. His brother on the other hand started to wheek in pain when urinating, took him to the vet and unfortunately: bladder stone. I am a bit shocked that his brother clover has it now as well. Ever since april i have been feeding them with recommendations of the vets and advice on the forum. I filled in a whole list at the vet what i give them for food and drink and we scored perfectly… so they are also confused as the why this is happening. So we did some research and tests and it pretty clear that its a genetic malfuction. This is very upsetting because i want them to live comfortable at all times. Its also very expensive to keep performing surgery on them and take photo’s and do research. Of course it is our duty as responsible guinea pig parents to keep them happy and healthy. I’m just sad to hear such unpleasant news. The vet is also very hesitant to perform a 3d surgery on chase in the future because of the agitated scartissue inside the bladder. This wasn’t the future i had in mind for them :(
 
I've just caught your thread and this is such sad news for you. I lost a boar just after stone surgery so in truth your boy has done well to survive both the op and the recovery period. The vet who performed the op had told me that it was a gamble because she had seen pigs who recovered and others who formed another stone literally within weeks of the surgery. Since following the forum diet of filtered water and minimal pellets we've not had a stone but of course with piggies that might change overnight - and it's so much harder for the boys. There are definitely genetic factors involved although I can't begin to imagine what they are. My pigs are all unrelated. My vet said the best we can do is just to try and keep everything flushing through.

After a little sow had stone trouble I added more water bottles and positioned them so that she would not have to come out into the open to drink. There are bottles near each 'bedroom' area with the spouts next to the doors so that the piggies can drink without emerging. It made a difference to my girl who was suddenly rattling the spout all night and waking us up! It made me wonder if she had drank what she needed in the day but there had been a thirsty gap in the dark hours... I don't know. We use bottled water with 3mg/L calcium - it's the lowest I could find. We have 4 bottles between 3 pigs... and we bring in fresh grass each morning. But the whole thing is a gamble: we are just doing what we can. My current fat girl who occasionally gets gritty pee is on daily glucosamine to try and protect her bladder from inflammation... have you tried anything like this? It's not the magic solution but we are just trying to make things comfortable.

Your boys are lucky to have you but I think your vet is right. A surgery is hard though sometimes necessary, but repeated surgeries are something no-one wants to put their piggies through. We have an expression in English, "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it..." but it's hard not to look ahead and see that there will likely be a difficult choice ahead at some point for Chase, if not for Clover. I feel for you, and can only say to be guided by your vet and your heart x
 
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