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Terminal piggy - Pepper

weepweeps

weepweeps

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So Pepper had a URI in February. He was at the vets within about an hour. He was prescribed pain meds and ABs.

These helped him but then he started laboured breathing again and the vet said his lungs and heart are fine he must have pain/probable tumour. Put on long term pain meds. I stopped the main meds after a couple of weeks to see if Pepper was ok but he really went downhill and needed the pain meds again so obviously he needs them as he has major pain somewhere.

But …. He seems so well on the pain meds. Eating, weight is stable at the moment, albeit 200g lower than his normal.

I suppose my question is I’m questioning the tumour diagnosis. I want to believe he’s ok and not terminal. Is this normal that he seems ok but is so unwell?
 
I think you just need to enjoy every day with him. From what I know of him he makes it easy to do that ❤️
 
weepweeps said:
So Pepper had a URI in February. He was at the vets within about an hour. He was prescribed pain meds and ABs.

These helped him but then he started laboured breathing again and the vet said his lungs and heart are fine he must have pain/probable tumour. Put on long term pain meds. I stopped the main meds after a couple of weeks to see if Pepper was ok but he really went downhill and needed the pain meds again so obviously he needs them as he has major pain somewhere.

But …. He seems so well on the pain meds. Eating, weight is stable at the moment, albeit 200g lower than his normal.

I suppose my question is I’m questioning the tumour diagnosis. I want to believe he’s ok and not terminal. Is this normal that he seems ok but is so unwell?
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HUGS

We all wish it was just a bad dream when we see a piggy being able to live a normal life with strong painkillers and we would so love to wake up to find that this is actually the case.

Unfortunately, this is a question that nobody can really answer. Whatever the source of Pepper's pain, the symptoms are currently taken care of by his pain meds but what is causing them is not - and it can develop further. As prey animals guinea pigs are able to suppress symptoms to quite an astonishing degree so the need for strong painkillers means that something serious is going on inside his body that can unfortunately be easily masked on a scan. Brace for when whatever it is breaks through the painkiller screen that things are happening pretty quickly from then on in. :(

Please just cherish every day that Pepper is there greeting you happily in the morning and make the day count so whatever happens, so you have made the most of the happy todays in his life. Take a leaf out of his book and try to live more in the day.

Whatever is going to happen one way or other is out of your control anyway so concentrate on what you can do and make the most of that. You can only win by seeing every day with him as a bonus whether that is just days, weeks or months. The special memories you create are ones that will stay with you forever; it is never wasted time and it is never time that you will rue.

Denial is a very normal instinctive reaction with its all too seductive lure of emotional comfort - but it comes with a massive sting in its tail when the comforting carpet is suddenly pulled from underneath your feet and you fall into the abyss of loss without warning. You can still stay in your comforting bubble of hope if you wish to but by living the time with Pepper more consciously, you at least create a kind of air cushion of happy memories to bolster any fall if or whenever it happens, having that bone deep experience of shared love and knowing you have done best to hang onto whenever you need it.

Anyway, I sincerely hope that you have still got plenty of happy days with Pepper.
 
All of my cancer/tumour piggies have been absolutely fine (usually with meds) until they very suddenly weren't and either perked up after a medication adjustment, or passed away very quickly. I know that's probably not what you wanted to hear, I'm so sorry.

It's a diagnosis I've recieved quite a few times now with my pigs and it never gets any easier to hear (the first time was with Daisy and I remember sitting up into the early hours researching..as if I could find a cure for cancer!) While it helps us to live more in the moment and make the most of the time we have left with them, luckily they have no idea they're ill.

I hope you are able to enjoy many months+ still to come with Pepper. There have been a few times they've done so well I've questioned if we were wrong, but then they decline and reality hits again. Grief hits before they even pass and comes and goes along with their good days and bad days where you can pretend things are normal, or not. It's not a fun journey and again, I'm so sorry you're going through it.
 
Eriathwen said:
All of my cancer/tumour piggies have been absolutely fine (usually with meds) until they very suddenly weren't and either perked up after a medication adjustment, or passed away very quickly. I know that's probably not what you wanted to hear, I'm so sorry.

It's a diagnosis I've recieved quite a few times now with my pigs and it never gets any easier to hear (the first time was with Daisy and I remember sitting up into the early hours researching..as if I could find a cure for cancer!) While it helps us to live more in the moment and make the most of the time we have left with them, luckily they have no idea they're ill.

I hope you are able to enjoy many months+ still to come with Pepper. There have been a few times they've done so well I've questioned if we were wrong, but then they decline and reality hits again. Grief hits before they even pass and comes and goes along with their good days and bad days where you can pretend things are normal, or not. It's not a fun journey and again, I'm so sorry you're going through it.
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Thank you. I appreciate your honesty. He just looks fine on his meds that I want to believe he’s fine.
 
Wiebke said:
HUGS

We all wish it was just a bad dream when we see a piggy being able to live a normal life with strong painkillers and we would so love to wake up to find that this is actually the case.

Unfortunately, this is a question that nobody can really answer. Whatever the source of Pepper's pain, the symptoms are currently taken care of by his pain meds but what is causing them is not - and it can develop further. As prey animals guinea pigs are able to suppress symptoms to quite an astonishing degree so the need for strong painkillers means that something serious is going on inside his body that can unfortunately be easily masked on a scan. Brace for when whatever it is breaks through the painkiller screen that things are happening pretty quickly from then on in. :(

Please just cherish every day that Pepper is there greeting you happily in the morning and make the day count so whatever happens, so you have made the most of the happy todays in his life. Take a leaf out of his book and try to live more in the day.

Whatever is going to happen one way or other is out of your control anyway so concentrate on what you can do and make the most of that. You can only win by seeing every day with him as a bonus whether that is just days, weeks or months. The special memories you create are ones that will stay with you forever; it is never wasted time and it is never time that you will rue.

Denial is a very normal instinctive reaction with its all too seductive lure of emotional comfort - but it comes with a massive sting in its tail when the comforting carpet is suddenly pulled from underneath your feet and you fall into the abyss of loss without warning. You can still stay in your comforting bubble of hope if you wish to but by living the time with Pepper more consciously, you at least create a kind of air cushion of happy memories to bolster any fall if or whenever it happens, having that bone deep experience of shared love and knowing you have done best to hang onto whenever you need it.

Anyway, I sincerely hope that you have still got plenty of happy days with Pepper.
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Thank you @Wiebke for taking the time to reply. I know it’s not easy at the moment for you. ❤️

I’m definitely taking more pictures and petting him more. Which he likes I think. He’s not a cuddly piggy but will sit for a while for kisses and something yummy. He just looks ok on his pain meds. 0.56ml of dog pain meds twice a day. Is that a lot as he’s 1.2kg at the moment? If I notice him becoming unwell (laboured breathing and sitting hunched up) then I may up it a little x
 
Eriathwen said:
All of my cancer/tumour piggies have been absolutely fine (usually with meds) until they very suddenly weren't and either perked up after a medication adjustment, or passed away very quickly. I know that's probably not what you wanted to hear, I'm so sorry.

It's a diagnosis I've recieved quite a few times now with my pigs and it never gets any easier to hear (the first time was with Daisy and I remember sitting up into the early hours researching..as if I could find a cure for cancer!) While it helps us to live more in the moment and make the most of the time we have left with them, luckily they have no idea they're ill.

I hope you are able to enjoy many months+ still to come with Pepper. There have been a few times they've done so well I've questioned if we were wrong, but then they decline and reality hits again. Grief hits before they even pass and comes and goes along with their good days and bad days where you can pretend things are normal, or not. It's not a fun journey and again, I'm so sorry you're going through it.
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So this is normal behaviour then for a terminal illness?
 
weepweeps said:
Thank you @Wiebke for taking the time to reply. I know it’s not easy at the moment for you. ❤️

I’m definitely taking more pictures and petting him more. Which he likes I think. He’s not a cuddly piggy but will sit for a while for kisses and something yummy. He just looks ok on his pain meds. 0.56ml of dog pain meds twice a day. Is that a lot as he’s 1.2kg at the moment? If I notice him becoming unwell (laboured breathing and sitting hunched up) then I may up it a little x
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Try some ideas from our enrichment guide. Shared time is not just about petting which is more of a human need anyway, it is about sharing experiences on many different levels. Terminal illness care doesn't mean that there is no giggles or naughtiness - rather the opposite; there is a freedom to celebrate all the facets of life during that time and to savour them fully. How sweet or how bitter this is is down to you.
Enrichment Ideas for Guinea Pigs

It is a fairly high dosage but it still has a bit more more wiggle space up. Whether your vet is willing to branch out into opiates and really strong painkillers or whether you want to go into those for Pepper is something you will have to ask yourself ideally before you come to the point as that touches upon where you want to draw the line for yourself - it is easier when you are clear with yourself on that issue as working through it when being torn apart between all the different emotions makes it so much harder. Be honest with yourself whether upping the painkillers is more for your own needs/fear of loss or Pepper's quality of life. It means a lot of soul-searching but it can also mean a lot more peace of mind in the long term.

Please also accept that the onset of the grieving process - which you are currently experiencing in full - comes with a lot of very conflicting desires and strong feelings. You can push them down but then you will have to face them in full later on (this is the sting in the tail of denial) or you can work through a lot of it by consciously spending the remaining time as quality time and as a blessed gift. It means that you have a comparatively easier ride after the immediate pain of a loss is over. There is less of a guilt trip, for one, and no huge shock to work through on top of the loss.
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
 
weepweeps said:
So this is normal behaviour then for a terminal illness?
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It'll depend on each piggy and illness of course, but in my experience, yes this would be fairly normal. I find them to be very stoic and they bimble on quite happily for as long as they get pain relief, which may or may not need adjusting over time. Just as an example I was told Paddington likely had lymphoma and he went on as normal for an entire year before it spread to his bladder and we had to put him to sleep. Like you, I figured being so well that it couldn't be cancer.. not for over a year! He wasn't even on pain meds as he wasn't showing any sign of being in pain.
Also being end of life you have some wiggle room with dosing, long term concerns go out the window. Gus as another example in his last days was prescribed 0.95ml of dog metacam twice a day and he was less than a kilo, on top of his gabapentin.
 
weepweeps said:
So this is normal behaviour then for a terminal illness?
Click to expand...

I have made the same experience as @Eriathwen . As long as piggies are strong enough to suppress symptoms they can pootle on seemingly unaffected. However, there always comes a point when painkillers can no longer control and mask what is going on. The decline after that is usually very quick because any internal growth will be very advanced by then and will be likely affecting more than one organ. :(

Don't get stuck too much on upping any painkillers; they do have a limit - even the strongest ones, although they can be shortly upped a lot more on terminal care. But you have to ask yourself the whole time how much you want to dose up your piggy just for a little extra time longer with you and how far do you want to take them for their own sake - especially when the need to up the pain medication towards the end is starting to escalate.

Coming to terms with the fact that a beloved one is not going to recover and cannot be cured is the second worst time after the loss itself - the two nadirs can be separated by months or even years or they can be just hours or days apart. This realisation is comparable to the shock factor of a sudden death, just that they do not happen together. What you are going through right now is the shock.

HUGS
 
I had several months with my little chap Jellybaby after diagnosis. He was very sprightly most of the time but being a skinny pig I could clearly see the tumours so I couldn’t doubt the diagnosis even though I desperately wanted to. I can only add to the good advice above - try and focus on daily good times. Thinking of you and Pepper x
 
My late Emma had a cancerous tumour in her armpit. Due to her age, the risks and an honest chat with my vet, we decided not to operate. She behaved completely normal for several months until she died of something unrelated.

Cherish everyday you have with Pepper and make lots of memories. I am thinking of you both and I hope you have plenty more happy days left together x
 
I am so sorry to hear this, such a shock for you.
I hope you and Pepper have many more happy days to come.
Sending you hugs.
 
Sending big hugs, it’s a bittersweet time. I really don’t know what is worst, the sadness of knowing a piggie is nearing the end of their life or finding they have suddenly slipped away without any goodbyes. I would just try and enjoy your Pepper in the here and now. Don’t think too far ahead just make lots of memories. We are all here to support you, I’m glad he is doing so well on his medication x
 
Micah was diagnosed with a tumour last year.
With extra Critical care and pain meds he lived very happily and even gained weight for a while.
It was only in his last few days that he suddenly went downhill.
I’m so sorry for Pepper’s diagnosis.
Make lots of memories and lots of happy todays for as long as he has.
Caring for a terminal piggy is emotionally draining because we are already grieving.
Look after yourself as well
Hugs 🤗
 
Penny Pig had what was a suspected tumour. She'd had noisy breathing for several months and we tried many things to alleviate this, and in the end the vet said that as nothing had really made a difference, the likelihood was that it was a tumour. We could have done further investigations, but as treatment would be impossible, we decided to let her live however long she had left in peace.
She looked absolutely fine during all of this, was eating and socialising with the others. It was just at the end that she found it hard to eat, and went off on her own to sit in a corner. That's when we went off to the vet for that last injection. The thing in her nose had started to affect her eyes also by then. It all seemed to happen in a rush, so at least she had a good quality of life, up to the end.
I still can't decide which is worse - knowing the end is coming, or a sudden crash with no warning. Either way it's not an easy time, for us who care for them x
 
Thank you everyone for sharing your experiences. I will take my cues from Pepper. When he shows me he’s ready I will help him on his way. He’s such a sweet piggy. He’s doing well at the moment so fingers crossed this will continue.
 
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