Syringe feeding advice please!

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

Hello lovely piggy people,

I was hoping to get your take on supplement feeding with critical care for a chronically ill piggy.

My Enid has chronic respiratory disease and has had two URIs since I got her 4 months ago, the second of which nearly killed her.

She was only 650g when I got her and at one point her weight went up to 680g but since her last infection it has dropped to 605-630g and isn't recovering so I decided to start supplement feeding her. I've given her her first syringe feed with Critical care this morning, which she really enjoyed, and I managed to get about 3 mls into her.

I'm just wondering how often and how much I should give her? She's not acutely ill and is eating (unlimited access to hay, 15g pellets and one cup of veg a day) and all the syringe feeding guides are geared towards piggies who are not eating at all. Does anyone have experience of this?

This is Enid's weight chart:

And this is Enid:


Thanks!

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m afraid there is no set answer. How much and how often you feed depends entirely on what her daily weight checks are doing and how much she takes per feeding. Its about finding what is right for her to stop any significant drops or downward trend and it’s going to take a few days of syringe feeding and weight checks every day before you can find what will work for her. Keep a record alongside the weight of how many mls of syringe feed she takes in total in the 24 hour period so you can adjust accordingly.

 

[Bill & Ted]

If she is eating plenty of hay and everything else you give her then I would be inclined to put a small bowl of plain dry porridge oats in her cage, they are easy to eat, healthy and calorific. I would only give her top up feeds if she is loosing weight, as you don’t want her to become too reliant on syringe feeds.

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

If she is eating plenty of hay and everything else you give her then I would be inclined to put a small bowl of plain dry porridge oats in her cage, they are easy to eat, healthy and calorific. I would only give her top up feeds if she is loosing weight, as you don’t want her to become too reliant on syringe feeds.

I've tried the porridge oats but without success. If I put them in her cage then her cagemate eats them. I've tried sitting her on my knee to eat them but she's not too interested. She doesn't seem to eat enough to make a difference.

I really didn't want to have to syringe feed as I already have to give her meds and nebulise her twice a day, and she also gets foot cream twice a day as her feet get quite red since she's not terribly active. Not sure what else I can do for her. I'm constantly stressed out trying to do the best for her.

 

[Bill & Ted]

I've tried the porridge oats but without success. If I put them in her cage then her cagemate eats them. I've tried sitting her on my knee to eat them but she's not too interested. She doesn't seem to eat enough to make a difference.

I really didn't want to have to syringe feed as I already have to give her meds and nebulise her twice a day, and she also gets foot cream twice a day as her feet get quite red since she's not terribly active. Not sure what else I can do for her. I'm constantly stressed out trying to do the best for her.

I’m so sorry for you, I know exactly how you are feeling. I had a piggie with dental problems and have spent many, many night syringe feeding and trying to get him eat, I feel for you x
I think if you weigh her everyday at the same time, then you can see if she has eaten enough or not. Step in with syringe feeding if she is loosing weight by all means. Once she gets the hang of it you could increase to say 6-10 mg if she is happy to take it (go slowly as she has breathing problems) and depending on the time you have during the day. 24 hour syringe feeding every 2-3 hours is not really sustainable for more than a week and only used when a piggie cannot eat anything on its own, so aim to give her it after her proper breakfast and before you go to bed and perhaps add another in too. Always bare in mind that you are topping up and not substituting the food she would normally be eating
Best of luck, you sound like you are doing an amazing job caring for her x

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

I’m so sorry for you, I know exactly how you are feeling. I had a piggie with dental problems and have spent many, many night syringe feeding and trying to get him eat, I feel for you x
I think if you weigh her everyday at the same time, then you can see if she has eaten enough or not. Step in with syringe feeding if she is loosing weight by all means. Once she gets the hang of it you could increase to say 6-10 mg if she is happy to take it (go slowly as she has breathing problems) and depending on the time you have during the day. 24 hour syringe feeding every 2-3 hours is not really sustainable for more than a week and only used when a piggie cannot eat anything on its own, so aim to give her it after her proper breakfast and before you go to bed and perhaps add another in too. Always bare in mind that you are topping up and not substituting the food she would normally be eating
Best of luck, you sound like you are doing an amazing job caring for her x

Thank you. Some days she never stops eating and pootles about the cage but other days she barely moves from her hidey. I was wondering if the heat could have affected her weight as the recent drop has coincided with the warm weather. I suppose its hard to know so I'm just trying to buoy her up a bit. She's not losing weight week on week but she is about 20g less than before her last infection.

This is all a massive learning curve for me. I didn't intend to adopt a special needs piggy but the shelter hadn't spotted it and she wouldn't have survived if I'd given her back. I just want to give her the best life I can while she's with us.

 

[Merab]

If I have to syringe feed I allow the piggy to guide how much they will take.
Intersperse a bit of spring feed with a favourite treat - mine love a chunk of cucumber or a sprig of dill.

I put a small dish of the syringe feed into the cage as well as scattering oats.
Yes - the other piggies enjoy it too but I don't think it harms them and helps to encourage the sick piggy to eat.

Sorry you're dealing with all this but we are here to support you through.

Enid is a real beauty and she's a lucky little piggy to have found you

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

If I have to syringe feed I allow the piggy to guide how much they will take.
Intersperse a bit of spring feed with a favourite treat - mine love a chunk of cucumber or a sprig of dill.

I put a small dish of the syringe feed into the cage as well as scattering oats.
Yes - the other piggies enjoy it too but I don't think it harms them and helps to encourage the sick piggy to eat.

Sorry you're dealing with all this but we are here to support you through.

Enid is a real beauty and she's a lucky little piggy to have found you

I might try mixing some oats in with the pellets as she tends to enjoy them quite a bit. I didn't syringe the food directly into her mouth. I just held it up to her and let her suckle from the syringe. She may have eaten more but I don't want to give her too much the first time.

My main concern with putting the extra food into the cage is that her cagemate is a bit of a chonk already and don't want to overfeed her.

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

She's just had another 5ml at lunchtime. She REALLY seems to like it. I'll leave it at that for today in case it upsets her tummy. I might aim for 10 ml a day for the next week and see if it affects her weight.

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

Just an update: I've had lots of conflicting advice as to whether I should syringe feed or not. I spoke to @Wiebke on one of the rescue groups I'm on and she advised it wasn't necessary if Enid
was eating on her own. Others advised that support feeding was a good idea.

After a couple of days of Enid being really down in the dumps and not being very active I thought it can't hurt and may pep her up a bit until I can see my exotic vet. She's been having about 5-10ml of Critical Care each evening before I go to bed and she's been quite excited by it. I'm just sitting by her cage and holding the syringe and letting her suckle on it as much as she wants. I think it's stimulating her appetite a bit as she always tucks into her hay straight after.

She's definitely been happier today so fingers crossed it's building her up a bit. I haven't had a chance to weigh her since I started it as I've been in the office this week and haven't been home at her usual "weigh time". I'm working from home on Thursday so I'll get an up to date weight then and hope it's making a difference.

 

[Wiebke]

Just an update: I've had lots of conflicting advice as to whether I should syringe feed or not. I spoke to @Wiebke on one of the rescue groups I'm on and she advised it wasn't necessary if Enid
was eating on her own. Others advised that support feeding was a good idea.

After a couple of days of Enid being really down in the dumps and not being very active I thought it can't hurt and may pep her up a bit until I can see my exotic vet. She's been having about 5-10ml of Critical Care each evening before I go to bed and she's been quite excited by it. I'm just sitting by her cage and holding the syringe and letting her suckle on it as much as she wants. I think it's stimulating her appetite a bit as she always tucks into her hay straight after.

She's definitely been happier today so fingers crossed it's building her up a bit. I haven't had a chance to weigh her since I started it as I've been in the office this week and haven't been home at her usual "weigh time". I'm working from home on Thursday so I'll get an up to date weight then and hope it's making a difference.

Hi!

Are you weighing her daily at the same time to monitor the food intake? That was the crucial part of my advice. Watching you piggy eat can be deceptive as you cannot control the hay intake by eye. The kitchen scales will help you assess just how much your piggy needs and wants; especially when parameters change con

If I want to support feed a piggy that is eating well on their own but struggles with their weight, I usually do so in a bowl or from a spoon so they are free to eat as much as they like - after their real dinner.

If the piggy is still ill and the weight is not stable, then I syringe feed as top up, using the daily weigh-in to adjust the frequency and overall amount accordingly.

Our syringe feeding and weighing guides may help you navigate that tricky period of recovery:
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
Weight - Monitoring and Management

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

Hi!

Are you weighing her daily at the same time to monitor the food intake? That was the crucial part of my advice. Watching you piggy eat can be deceptive as you cannot control the hay intake by eye. The kitchen scales will help you assess just how much your piggy needs and wants; especially when parameters change con

If I want to support feed a piggy that is eating well on their own but struggles with their weight, I usually do so in a bowl or from a spoon so they are free to eat as much as they like - after their real dinner.

If the piggy is still ill and the weight is not stable, then I syringe feed as top up, using the daily weigh-in to adjust the frequency and overall amount accordingly.

Our syringe feeding and weighing guides may help you navigate that tricky period of recovery:
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
Weight - Monitoring and Management

I haven't been able to weigh her through the week because of my work schedule. I usually weigh her mid-morning on a weekend but I leave the house at 6.30 through the week. I could weigh her on an evening but I'm not sure how that would compare with her other weigh ins.

I've tried feeding from a bowl or spoon but she not interested. She's keen on the syringe though. I'm just letting her suckle and she's free to stop and walk away whenever she wants. She just sees it as a nice treat.

She's been really low energy the last week and often doesn't seek out food unless you put it close to her. She doesn't have an active infection but I suspect her chronic problems are flaring up. I'm just trying to buoy her up until she sees the vet on Monday.

 

[Wiebke]

I haven't been able to weigh her through the week because of my work schedule. I usually weigh her mid-morning on a weekend but I leave the house at 6.30 through the week. I could weigh her on an evening but I'm not sure how that would compare with her other weigh ins.

I've tried feeding from a bowl or spoon but she not interested. She's keen on the syringe though. I'm just letting her suckle and she's free to stop and walk away whenever she wants. She just sees it as a nice treat.

She's been really low energy the last week and often doesn't seek out food unless you put it close to her. She doesn't have an active infection but I suspect her chronic problems are flaring up. I'm just trying to buoy her up until she sees the vet on Monday.

The trick is to always weigh at the same time in the feeding cycle, like in the evening before you feed dinner so you get a good day-to-day comparison. It only takes 2-5 minutes but it is such a helpful tool when supporting ill or recovering piggies.
How To Pick Up And Weigh Your Guinea Pigs Safely

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

The trick is to always weigh at the same time in the feeding cycle, like in the evening before you feed dinner so you get a good day-to-day comparison. It only takes 2-5 minutes but it is such a helpful tool when supporting ill or recovering piggies.
How To Pick Up And Weigh Your Guinea Pigs Safely

I'll switch to evening weigh ins for the time being. I'm just used to weighing all four of them on a Saturday morning so didn't think I'd get any valuable data weighing later in the day. She's quite happy to be weighed in her fleece pocket (I deduct its weight from the total).

It's not so much her weight that worries me (although it has decreased slightly and slowly over the last month or so) but her lack of energy. She's never really gotten back to her old self since the last infection and isn't as interested in food as she was.

I have a feeling the vet will say it's just the progression of her disease and there's not much to be done about it. But even if a little evening treat cheers her up for 10 minutes then it's something at least. The little stinker has grabbed the syringe out of my hands twice and tried to drag it into her hidey. She definitely likes it!

 

[Wiebke]

I'll switch to evening weigh ins for the time being. I'm just used to weighing all four of them on a Saturday morning so didn't think I'd get any valuable data weighing later in the day. She's quite happy to be weighed in her fleece pocket (I deduct its weight from the total).

It's not so much her weight that worries me (although it has decreased slightly and slowly over the last month or so) but her lack of energy. She's never really gotten back to her old self since the last infection and isn't as interested in food as she was.

I have a feeling the vet will say it's just the progression of her disease and there's not much to be done about it. But even if a little evening treat cheers her up for 10 minutes then it's something at least. The little stinker has grabbed the syringe out of my hands twice and tried to drag it into her hidey. She definitely likes it!

Sounds promising! Try her with a bowl after her dinner (outside the cage of course but you can place the bowl with any leftovers in it for the companions).
It doesn't matter so much which time of day you weigh for the daily snap shot, just that it is always at a comparable time so you can eliminate the natural weight swing of 30-40g over the course of hours as much as possible in order to get a clearer picture of what is going on; whether your support feed is working and how much difference it makes and whether you want to make any changes or not.

As each case is unique, you have to develop a repertoire of options and finesse or adapt it as you go along with what works for you and your piggy; especially in those with ongoing health issues. This can range from different support foods depending on what goes down best with each individual piggy, how you feed, how often and how much you feed etc.

I do have my own syringe tug-of-wars with some of my piggies. Barri also loves to chew his syringes to bits...

All the best!

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

Sounds promising! Try her with a bowl after her dinner (outside the cage of course but you can place the bowl with any leftovers in it for the companions).
It doesn't matter so much which time of day you weigh for the daily snap shot, just that it is always at a comparable time so you can eliminate the natural weight swing of 30-40g over the course of hours as much as possible in order to get a clearer picture of what is going on; whether your support feed is working and how much difference it makes and whether you want to make any changes or not.

As each case is unique, you have to develop a repertoire of options and finesse or adapt it as you go along with what works for you and your piggy; especially in those with ongoing health issues. This can range from different support foods depending on what goes down best with each individual piggy, how you feed, how often and how much you feed etc.

I do have my own syringe tug-of-wars with some of my piggies. Barri also loves to chew his syringes to bits...

All the best!

I'm getting quite worried about Enid. She wasn't herself at all this morning. Not taking food off me and not interacting. She seems a bit more like herself not and has eaten a piece of cucumber and some oats but she has just passed a weird stringy poop.

She has an appointment with the exotic vet on Monday but I'm going to see if I can get it brought forward. I feel absolutely sick about it.

 

[Wiebke]

I'm getting quite worried about Enid. She wasn't herself at all this morning. Not taking food off me and not interacting. She seems a bit more like herself not and has eaten a piece of cucumber and some oats but she has just passed a weird stringy poop.

She has an appointment with the exotic vet on Monday but I'm going to see if I can get it brought forward. I feel absolutely sick about it.
View attachment 182265

Please try to snatch an emergency slot before the weekend if possible. The lethargy is worrying.

The thickness and consistency of the poos suggest that she is getting enough fibre from your feeding support and they are not looking dehydrated, so you are doing exactly the right thing in terms of support care.
She still has got issues with her gut microbiome though (although they are no longer looking major) and obviously what is causing her symptoms is not yet found and addressed. It may lie outside the gut and just impact on it.

All the best!

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

Please try to snatch an emergency slot before the weekend if possible. The lethargy is worrying.

The thickness and consistency of the poos suggest that she is getting enough fibre from your feeding support and they are not looking dehydrated, so you are doing exactly the right thing in terms of support care.
She still has got issues with her gut microbiome though (although they are no longer looking major) and obviously what is causing her symptoms is not yet found and addressed. It may lie outside the gut and just impact on it.

All the best!

I've managed to get her a slot this evening although not with the specialist. They advised to continue with the critical care until then. She's just ravenously eaten 12.5mls so I don't understand why she isn't eating for herself. She's done a few more linked poops too.

I'll update when I've seen the vet.

 

[Wiebke]

I've managed to get her a slot this evening although not with the specialist. They advised to continue with the critical care until then. She's just ravenously eaten 12.5mls so I don't understand why she isn't eating for herself. She's done a few more linked poops too.

I'll update when I've seen the vet.

Something is clearly going on and it is coming in waves. Fingers firmly crossed for your visit tonight; great that they are fitting you in! You need to continue to support feed until the issue sorted, indeed.

Please brace yourself that the poo output reflects the input but a day or two later - the poos you are getting now are from yesterday or te day before and do not reflect the current state.This means that you will also get gaps/episodes in the poo output that will reflect her most recent episode (short partial or full GI stasis episode?) so there will be likely some small and funny ones on the way at some point.

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

Something is clearly going on and it is coming in waves. Fingers firmly crossed for your visit tonight; great that they are fitting you in! You need to continue to support feed until the issue sorted, indeed.

Please brace yourself that the poo output reflects the input but a day or two later - the poos you are getting now are from yesterday or te day before and do not reflect the current state.This means that you will also get gaps/episodes in the poo output that will reflect her most recent episode (short partial or full GI stasis episode?) so there will be likely some small and funny ones on the way at some point.

Thanks for your help. I don't think this is related to her respiratory issues as her breathing is OK at the moment.

She's had a bit of hay and readigrass since I gave her the critical care and is having a snooze now. She seems much brighter than she did this morning. It seemed more like being frozen in fear this morning than lethargy so I wonder if she has some pain.

I have such a bad feeling. She's already so small and poorly and I'm not sure she can pull through a secondary condition. I've only had her 4 months and she's been so poorly I've never had a chance to just enjoy her.

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks for your help. I don't think this is related to her respiratory issues as her breathing is OK at the moment.

She's had a bit of hay and readigrass since I gave her the critical care and is having a snooze now. She seems much brighter than she did this morning. It seemed more like being frozen in fear this morning than lethargy so I wonder if she has some pain.

I have such a bad feeling. She's already so small and poorly and I'm not sure she can pull through a secondary condition. I've only had her 4 months and she's been so poorly I've never had a chance to just enjoy her.

She is lucky to have found somebody who really cares about her in you. Life is not always kind with those who draw the short straws but you are making a world of difference for her, whatever happens. Never lose sight of that!

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

She is lucky to have found somebody who really cares about her in you. Life is not always kind with those who draw the short straws but you are making a world of difference for her, whatever happens. Never lose sight of that!

We're just back from the vet. He thinks she's had some mild gut stasis but isn't sure of the cause. It could be stress from her respiratory disease or from her sore feet (which is what I was originally taking her to the vet for). He's prescribed metoclopramide 3x a day for the next 3-5 days and she's booked for a check up on Monday. He thinks her odd turn this morning was pain from passing the weird poop.

Of course she was munching hay all through her vet visit just to make a liar out of me and since coming home she's passed some more normal looking poops (a couple still had a little string attached to one end) and has happily tucked into her dinner.

Fingers crossed she's OK over the weekend. I have to take her in as an emergency if she's not improving over the next 24 hours.

 

[Wiebke]

We're just back from the vet. He thinks she's had some mild gut stasis but isn't sure of the cause. It could be stress from her respiratory disease or from her sore feet (which is what I was originally taking her to the vet for). He's prescribed metoclopramide 3x a day for the next 3-5 days and she's booked for a check up on Monday. He thinks her odd turn this morning was pain from passing the weird poop.

Of course she was munching hay all through her vet visit just to make a liar out of me and since coming home she's passed some more normal looking poops (a couple still had a little string attached to one end) and has happily tucked into her dinner.

Fingers crossed she's OK over the weekend. I have to take her in as an emergency if she's not improving over the next 24 hours.

Those poos won't cause gut stasis (which causes the lethargy; GI stasis is like turning the energy supply line off) - I've had them in my own piggies occasionally over the years but they have never caused any GI stasis symptoms. It's very much the other way round that something is causing GI episodes - but what causes them is a rather wide field.
Funny poos are always a reaction but never the cause. In order to cause issues with passing, they would need to be a lot larger and much harder than they look.

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

Those poos won't cause gut stasis (which causes the lethargy; GI stasis is like turning the energy supply line off) - I've had them in my own piggies occasionally over the years but they have never caused any GI stasis symptoms. It's very much the other way round that something is causing GI episodes - but what causes them is a rather wide field.
Funny poos are always a reaction but never the cause. In order to cause issues with passing, they would need to be a lot larger and much harder than they look.

He seemed to think it was stress from her respiratory disease that was the cause and the pain/weird poops were both symptoms.

She seemed more like herself once we got home from the vet. I've caught her tucking into her hay through the night (I have a webcam set up on her cage) and she's been more active than she has been in recent days. She's had 2 doses of the metoclopramide now and is pooping like a champ. They're still a little misshapen but they're not stringy anymore. I'm going to weigh her this morning and keep on with the support feeding. At least she seems to enjoy the critical care!

I forgot to ask the vet if she's OK to have her usual veg. I know it's not recommended with bloat but wasn't sure about GI stasis. I gave her her normal veg last night but wasn't sure if that was the right thing to do. Would you continue feeding as normal?

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

The meds have worked wonders with Enid. She's been more active and eaten more today than I've seen in months. I'm starting to wonder if the baytril from her last URI upset her stomach and it never went back to normal. I've been saying for weeks that she's not really bounced back this time.

She must've done about 200 poops today and they're back to normal. No more stringy ones!

Fingers crossed this will be a permanent improvement.

She's even been climbing on her bridge again.

 

[Black piggies]

That's great news! She's adorable.

 

[weepweeps]

That’s brilliant. She’s a beauty.

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

@Wiebke Just looking for a bit of reassurance. Enid has been eating almost constantly since starting the gut stimulants and her poop output has been pretty massive. Everytime I look in the cage there's 10-30 more poops (I know they're hers as I have a webcam set up and she poops in a very particular place).

However, I've weighed her this morning and she's only 582g, down from 605g yesterday. This is by far the lowest she's ever been. Is this just the immediate effect of her bowels moving again or should I call the vet?

 

[Wiebke]

@Wiebke Just looking for a bit of reassurance. Enid has been eating almost constantly since starting the gut stimulants and her poop output has been pretty massive. Everytime I look in the cage there's 10-30 more poops (I know they're hers as I have a webcam set up and she poops in a very particular place).

However, I've weighed her this morning and she's only 582g, down from 605g yesterday. This is by far the lowest she's ever been. Is this just the immediate effect of her bowels moving again or should I call the vet?

Hi!

Are you weighing daily at the same time in the feeding cycle or not?

The difference between a full bladder and an empty one is 10g, between a full and empty tummy ca. 30-40g, so the weight swings around 30g over the course of a day. It is always lowest first thing in the morning but can go up another 30g over the course of the day). In order to have valid comparison, you have to weigh at the same time (i.e. always first thing in the morning, or before/after a meal). I prefer to always weigh in the morning as the weight is then at its lowest as it gives me the best comparison and I can work up from there over the day, upping the feeding frequency and amount of the syringe feed as necessary.

The lower weight is likely from emptying the gut now that it is working again. Metoclopramide/emeprid works in that it empties the gut; i.e. you get a whole load of poos in the system all at once at some point before things start to normalise a bit more again. But it is great to see that the gut is working at a good speed again.

 

[MildredMaudeandEnid]

Hi!

Are you weighing daily at the same time in the feeding cycle or not?

The difference between a full bladder and an empty one is 10g, between a full and empty tummy ca. 30-40g, so the weight swings around 30g over the course of a day. It is always lowest first thing in the morning but can go up another 30g over the course of the day). In order to have valid comparison, you have to weigh at the same time (i.e. always first thing in the morning, or before/after a meal). I prefer to always weigh in the morning as the weight is then at its lowest as it gives me the best comparison and I can work up from there over the day, upping the feeding frequency and amount of the syringe feed as necessary.

The lower weight is likely from emptying the gut now that it is working again. Metoclopramide/emeprid works in that it empties the gut; i.e. you get a whole load of poos in the system all at once at some point before things start to normalise a bit more again. But it is great to see that the gut is working at a good speed again.

Yes, I weighed the same time as yesterday but she had been pooping just beforehand. In the last day she must have done around 300 poops so I thought the loss could be that everything she's eating is passing straight through at the minute.

She doesn't seem as ravenous as yesterday so I'll see if things even out today and weigh again tomorrow. I'm booked in with the vet on Monday for a check up so I'll mention it if it doesn't start creeping back up. I hate doing these daily weigh-ins cause they make me so anxious. Other than the weight drop she's doing really well. Her poops are normal again and much bigger than they have been recently and she's had much more energy.