Suprelorin Implant For Toast

[Beans&Toast]

Yet another thing to add to Toast's problems...

I'm just looking for a bit of advice, or someone who can point me in the right direction.

I've posted before about how I've had to separate the pigs temporarily because when Toast comes into season she's getting more and more aggressive each time.

I was at the vets this morning with Beans getting her second hormone injection for cystic ovaries and asked about Toast.

I was given two options, spay or the implant.

I asked about the hormone injections for her instead, as Beans is currently on this treatment but I was told the injection wouldn't be suitable for Toast because, unlike Beans, who's mood is consistently grumpy, Toast goes from being completely fine then as soon as she goes into season she's extremely irritable and aggressive to Beans (gets worse each time) then back to normal about 4 or 5 days later.

Does this sound right? The injections were offered to Beans because her mood is neither up nor down, just grumpy all the time, whereas Toast's mood goes up and down when coming into season?

I've had a read about this implant but there's not an awful lot I can find, and it's mostly about dogs.

Toast is around 4 maybe (rescue so not sure) and she has several health issues, occasional cystitis, bladder crystals, recurring dental problems, arthritis in back leg (although it doesn't seem to bother her yet) and has had a URI twice.
(Despite all of this she is normally a very happy, active pig)

A spay would obviously fix the issues she's having when she comes into season, but it's very invasive and that really worries me.
The implant is not invasive and seems safer but the effects may not last long and would need replacing, and wouldn't guarantee more cysts..

I can't just leave her, it's horrible having to separate every few weeks, they clearly miss each other and look lonely so that isn't a long term solution.

I'm trying to weigh up the pros and cons of both and I don't know what to do for the best?

 

[Guinea Slave]

I had a girl just like Toast, used to be incredibly aggressive when in season and in actual fact got so upset and agitated she would sit panting at the side with exhaustion with her mouth open, have a break and then harass the girls again. Like you, I had to separate her every so often as I was worried she would collapse.

Again like Toast she had cystitis regularly, bladder stones etc. Sadly she did not recover from a serious bladderstone removal and I was gutted to lose her as whilst she could be a real pain in the neck she was also very intelligent and joy to own. I did also find having a neutered boy seemed to keep her on an even keel as well, but they loved each other and psychologically he helped her I think..a bit deep I know but I think he protected the others and she took it from him.

Anyway, sorry I digress! the injections (Chorulon? it was a long time ago but I think that was the one) worked fairly well for her. Her moods were shall we say 'dampened' by them and made life bearable for everyone but she did have to have them regularly. I did not want to spay her due to all her other issues (and I have lost one to a spay before) my vet was not keen on the implant at all (I think because it was unproven) and so we opted for the injections.

Hope that helps, nothing factual or scientific I am afraid! If it was me I would try the injections, they cannot do any harm and you then will know what your options are.

 

[helen105281]

I don't have much experience of the implant I'm afraid but I think there have been threads about it on here before so maybe do a search in case anyone went with it.

 

[Beans&Toast]

I had a girl just like Toast, used to be incredibly aggressive when in season and in actual fact got so upset and agitated she would sit panting at the side with exhaustion with her mouth open, have a break and then harass the girls again. Like you, I had to separate her every so often as I was worried she would collapse.

Again like Toast she had cystitis regularly, bladder stones etc. Sadly she did not recover from a serious bladderstone removal and I was gutted to lose her as whilst she could be a real pain in the neck she was also very intelligent and joy to own. I did also find having a neutered boy seemed to keep her on an even keel as well, but they loved each other and psychologically he helped her I think..a bit deep I know but I think he protected the others and she took it from him.

Anyway, sorry I digress! the injections (Chorulon? it was a long time ago but I think that was the one) worked fairly well for her. Her moods were shall we say 'dampened' by them and made life bearable for everyone but she did have to have them regularly. I did not want to spay her due to all her other issues (and I have lost one to a spay before) my vet was not keen on the implant at all (I think because it was unproven) and so we opted for the injections.

Hope that helps, nothing factual or scientific I am afraid! If it was me I would try the injections, they cannot do any harm and you then will know what your options are.

Thanks

I did ask for the injections but he said they wouldn't work.. Beans is on them for cystic ovaries and he mentioned the implant then and said he wouldn't recommend it for Beans but he would for Toast as it's a different situation; Beans is always grumpy with the cysts whereas Toast's aggression comes in waves. I'm not sure I understand the injections/implant enough to question this though..

 

[Beans&Toast]

I don't have much experience of the implant I'm afraid but I think there have been threads about it on here before so maybe do a search in case anyone went with it.

I did have a look but there wasn't a lot to go on. One was a male piggy having it instead of being neutered.
I'm struggling to understand how the injections could work for Beans but not Toast, when both are hormone issues..

 

[helen105281]

That does puzzle me a bit too. With Fuzzy she couldn't have the injections as it was too far advanced but that meant full spay and not an implant.

 

[Beans&Toast]

That does puzzle me a bit too. With Fuzzy she couldn't have the injections as it was too far advanced but that meant full spay and not an implant.

What age was Fuzzy? I'm going to make an appointment to discuss it in more depth with him. I asked quickly while getting Beans seen to.

As far as I understand the injections shrink the cysts? Is it possible that Toast's behaviour could be like this without the presence of a cyst but still a hormone issue?

 

[helen105281]

4 and a heart pig too so it was risky but necessary. She was hormonal literally all of the time. Apparently her membrane was open which is why the op was done as an emergency spay.

 

[helen105281]

Yes as far as I know that is possible, though Fuzzy's were microscopic and not spotted on a scan.

 

[helen105281]

Does she have any thinning of the hair?

 

[Guinea Slave]

Its a tough one but as said, Chorulon is to enable the shrinking of cysts, is the vet therefore saying that this is not cyst related?

 

[Beans&Toast]

Does she have any thinning of the hair?

No thinning of hair at all. The only thing is her behaviour for about 4 days when she's in season is very irritable and aggressive, she gets really hyper, zooming about the cage (not in a fun zoomies/popcorning kind of way though) then it's almost as if it wears off and she's back to normal when she's out of season. I'm going to phone and sort out having a talk with my vet about what's the best way to treat this. I'm really not happy with the implant idea right now, doesn't seem worth the risk if it doesn't last and not a guaranteed solution.

 

[Beans&Toast]

Does she have any thinning of the hair?

No thinning of hair at all. The only thing is her behaviour for about 4 days when she's in season is very irritable and aggressive, she gets really hyper, zooming about the cage (not in a fun zoomies/popcorning kind of way though) then it's almost as if it wears off and she's back to normal when she's out of season. I'm going to phone and sort out having a talk with my vet about what's the best way to treat this. I'm really not happy with the implant idea right now, doesn't seem worth the risk if it doesn't last and not a guaranteed solution.

 

[Adelle]

The implant is a waste of time- my previous vet done alot of research on it for crunchie, and was told directly by the manufacturers that their results dont show any conclusive evidence of a result.

I would opt for the injections personally. Mallow had the same symptoms, only very grumpy when in heat but the seasons where getting progressively closer together which I'm guessing will be the way toast goes. I only opted for spay for her as she was young and fit and i was confident in the vet; and it meant they where gone. Turns out she didnt have full blown cysts, but had a strange looking ovary with an unidentifiable mass.

 

[Beans&Toast]

The implant is a waste of time- my previous vet done alot of research on it for crunchie, and was told directly by the manufacturers that their results dont show any conclusive evidence of a result.

I would opt for the injections personally. Mallow had the same symptoms, only very grumpy when in heat but the seasons where getting progressively closer together which I'm guessing will be the way toast goes. I only opted for spay for her as she was young and fit and i was confident in the vet; and it meant they where gone. Turns out she didnt have full blown cysts, but had a strange looking ovary with an unidentifiable mass.

Thanks. I did ask about the injections and he said they wouldn't work for Toast and the implant would be better. But I'm struggling to see how. Just because the vet thinks it won't work, does that mean that I can't get them if that's the route I want to go down? My vet is very good and trust him, but on this occasion I think I have to disagree with him...

 

[Adelle]

Thanks. I did ask about the injections and he said they wouldn't work for Toast and the implant would be better. But I'm struggling to see how. Just because the vet thinks it won't work, does that mean that I can't get them if that's the route I want to go down? My vet is very good and trust him, but on this occasion I think I have to disagree with him...

It wont do her any harm to have them, at the end of the day its your choice. I can see the logic behind his reasoning- if you think about it compared to a human contraceptive pill.. The pill, like the injections, work as you take them, but dont when you stop whereas the implant is like taking the pill longterm without interuptions and keeps everything in control. But since there literally is no evidence to say these are effective, personally i dont see the point. The injections seem to do the job for many pigs, aswell as crunchie (she was spayed not long after due to a womb complication unrelated to injections), so if it was me i would opt for these and spay after wards if it doesnt work.. Which is prett much your options if you go for the implant, except you'd then be hindering yourself as the injections wouldnt be an option once the implant was inserted under toasts skin... And since the injections have a higher success rate, it would make sense to go for that option.

Obviously it is entirely up to you, as toast is toast and not anyone elses piggy.. It would be your call for whatever you feel is best and what you are happiest with x

 

[Beans&Toast]

It wont do her any harm to have them, at the end of the day its your choice. I can see the logic behind his reasoning- if you think about it compared to a human contraceptive pill.. The pill, like the injections, work as you take them, but dont when you stop whereas the implant is like taking the pill longterm without interuptions and keeps everything in control. But since there literally is no evidence to say these are effective, personally i dont see the point. The injections seem to do the job for many pigs, aswell as crunchie (she was spayed not long after due to a womb complication unrelated to injections), so if it was me i would opt for these and spay after wards if it doesnt work.. Which is prett much your options if you go for the implant, except you'd then be hindering yourself as the injections wouldnt be an option once the implant was inserted under toasts skin... And since the injections have a higher success rate, it would make sense to go for that option.

Obviously it is entirely up to you, as toast is toast and not anyone elses piggy.. It would be your call for whatever you feel is best and what you are happiest with x

Well he put Beans on the injections and said no to the implant for her, but has said no to the injections and yes to implant for Toast. I'm really not keen in the implant at all. Am I right in saying that with the injections, they're not something that should be used regularly long term.. as far as I understand, if they're going to work, they should work after 2 or 3 then maybe only need one every 6 months or so?

Aw it's just so confusing and so much to think about, really want to do the right thing for them.