Sudden loss/strange symptoms - wondering why

[Liz47]

Sorry I wasn't sure whether to post in rainbow bridge but I'd like some opinions on some health questions, although I appreciate without a post mortem we'll never know for sure.

Ellie was my 5 year old unspayed healthy girl, she'd been to the vets recently for a benign lump removal arising from a hair follicle which she had 2 reoccur and 1 become infected and needed antibiotics but aside from that she was fine.

I was up late Friday night and at 3am her and her cage mate Rocco were running around, eating as normal. Come 9am Saturday morning at breakfast time Ellie didn't come out the igloo which is unusual and looked puffed up. I picked her up which is normally a struggle but she just let me and she felt a bit limp, I put her down and she was leaving her back legs wherever I put them ie stretched out behind her and didn't react to me pinching her back feet. I called the vets and took her straight in.

Sadly I don't think I saw the best vet, I was very worried at Ellie's behaviour - not moving much, slow reactions but she was moving her back legs in the consult but made no attempt to move when placed on the floor and was only shuffling a bit on the table. Vet thought that was normal for a guinea pig to not like the table/floor but I advised Ellie would normally Scrabble/run to me/the carrier to hide. She hasn't lost any weight, nothing obvious on exam, passed a few faeces in the consult but I said they were paler/slightly more wet than usual, vet did ask about weeing but hard to say since they're on fleece but she wasn't squealing/in the weeing position struggling. She was given Metacam to see how she goes.

Got home at and let her settle for a bit, she was showing a slight interest in food and nibbling small bits. Went to check on her a couple of hours later to see if the Metacam had helped and was prepared to syringe feed but she was clearly very uncomfortable, laying on her side but every few mins rolling slightly/twitching a back leg.

Called the vets back and luckily the ooh vet was the savvy one told to bring her back. Her temperature was very low despite being with a snugglesafe, and uncomfortable on abdo exploration. Vet warned she was very poorly and offered PTS or attempt supportive care/X ray. We opted for supported care/X ray but gave our permission for PTS if she didn't improve soon/went downhill. She was put in a heated kennel, given fluids, gut stimulant and more pain relief and the vet was very kind to let us see her settled into the kennel.

We got a call very soon after we left to say she'd passed away and on doing so passed diarrhoea. X ray showed nothing apart from gas/gut stasis. The vet was very kind and said think of her as passing from old age don't fret since we did all we can. But she was perfectly well before/not showing signs of being an old girl and our previous piggies have lived between 8-10 when had one girl reach 12 before passing of old age.

Any input would be appreciated. I have one lonely 3 year old male who really loved Ellie. They'd only been together since we adopted him in August 2020.

 

[weepweeps]

I’m so sorry you have lost Ellie. It sounds like you did everything you could for her. They hide their illnesses so well that something may have been brewing for a little while. Or it could be that it was the gut stasis. You will never know for sure. Take comfort that she didn’t suffer. You filled her life with happy days. Take care.

 

[Liz47]

Thank you <3 I've not had any experience of guinea pigs with gut stasis, sadly plenty with rabbits! So perhaps I am expecting it to be more like my experience with rabbits, which is when spotted quickly and on treatment they soon improve, rather than pass away so quickly. I think perhaps there was something underlying. I'm struggling to come to terms with she's gone so suddenly.

 

[weepweeps]

Yes it was a big shock for you. I had a friend with a rabbit that had gut statis and it recovered so quickly with meds. I think maybe piggies are not as easy to treat. A bit more delicate.

 

[Bill & Ted]

I’m so sorry you lost your beautiful Ellie, sending hugs. She sounds like she had a wonderful life with you and will have known just how much you cared for her Hope Rocco is alright x
Sleep tight little lady

 

[Wiebke]

Sorry I wasn't sure whether to post in rainbow bridge but I'd like some opinions on some health questions, although I appreciate without a post mortem we'll never know for sure.

Ellie was my 5 year old unspayed healthy girl, she'd been to the vets recently for a benign lump removal arising from a hair follicle which she had 2 reoccur and 1 become infected and needed antibiotics but aside from that she was fine.

I was up late Friday night and at 3am her and her cage mate Rocco were running around, eating as normal. Come 9am Saturday morning at breakfast time Ellie didn't come out the igloo which is unusual and looked puffed up. I picked her up which is normally a struggle but she just let me and she felt a bit limp, I put her down and she was leaving her back legs wherever I put them ie stretched out behind her and didn't react to me pinching her back feet. I called the vets and took her straight in.

Sadly I don't think I saw the best vet, I was very worried at Ellie's behaviour - not moving much, slow reactions but she was moving her back legs in the consult but made no attempt to move when placed on the floor and was only shuffling a bit on the table. Vet thought that was normal for a guinea pig to not like the table/floor but I advised Ellie would normally Scrabble/run to me/the carrier to hide. She hasn't lost any weight, nothing obvious on exam, passed a few faeces in the consult but I said they were paler/slightly more wet than usual, vet did ask about weeing but hard to say since they're on fleece but she wasn't squealing/in the weeing position struggling. She was given Metacam to see how she goes.

Got home at and let her settle for a bit, she was showing a slight interest in food and nibbling small bits. Went to check on her a couple of hours later to see if the Metacam had helped and was prepared to syringe feed but she was clearly very uncomfortable, laying on her side but every few mins rolling slightly/twitching a back leg.

Called the vets back and luckily the ooh vet was the savvy one told to bring her back. Her temperature was very low despite being with a snugglesafe, and uncomfortable on abdo exploration. Vet warned she was very poorly and offered PTS or attempt supportive care/X ray. We opted for supported care/X ray but gave our permission for PTS if she didn't improve soon/went downhill. She was put in a heated kennel, given fluids, gut stimulant and more pain relief and the vet was very kind to let us see her settled into the kennel.

We got a call very soon after we left to say she'd passed away and on doing so passed diarrhoea. X ray showed nothing apart from gas/gut stasis. The vet was very kind and said think of her as passing from old age don't fret since we did all we can. But she was perfectly well before/not showing signs of being an old girl and our previous piggies have lived between 8-10 when had one girl reach 12 before passing of old age.

Any input would be appreciated. I have one lonely 3 year old male who really loved Ellie. They'd only been together since we adopted him in August 2020.

BIG HUGS

Unfortunately, when something goes dramatically wrong, it can do so out of the blue with devastating speed.
It sounds like a major pain event in her lower body/spine? that has likely caused the diarrhea, gassing, stasis symptoms in combination with back leg issues.

Nothing you have done wrong and nothing more you could have done. The second time you had Ellie seen, her body was already closing down; there is nothing that can be done once that process gets underway. A low body temperature in guinea pigs is in most cases a sign that the body is closing down and that the blood circulation is no longer working well, amongst other symptoms.

Sadly, the modern mass breeding of commercial guinea pigs (whether that is pet shops or for sale breeders, or rescues were most of the piggies coming from the same genetic pool) has meant that the longevity is generally down to 5-7 years these days. In my childhood day, having piggies living a decade was not all that unusual; these days I feel blessed for every piggy that reaches or surpasses the upper end of the of the average life time and am relieved about every piggy that gets to the lower end.

It is totally normal for the onset of the grieving process to do some serious soul searching and wanting to find answers, or suffering from strong feelings of guilt or failure. This usually much stronger after a traumatic sudden death you haven't been able to brace for.
Unfortunately, we cannot answer your questions. We can only guess. Only a post mortem examination at the vet's may have given you an answer - or may be not.

You may find these guides here helpful in making a bit more sense of your experiences and your feelings; there are also practical tips on what you can do for your boy in the short term:
Digestive Disorders: Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) And Not Eating
Looking after guinea pigs with limited or no mobility (see first chapter)
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs (includes a chapter on the dying process)

Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig
Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

 

[Liz47]

Thank you everyone xx

Yeah the second vet did advise expect her to pass within the next 12 hours when he offered PTS and said about her temp being so low, but I thought there would be no harm in having her admitted to attempt treatment as I knew the vet would keep her comfortable and PTS at any point if enough was enough.

That's interesting about the genetics these days, it was in the past my piggies lived so long. Recently they've became poorly before reaching those ages. Ellie came from a rescue but before that she'd been bought from pets at home.

The links are very helpful thank you.

Thankfully Rocco is acting as normal, although I know he will be affected by being alone. I've sent an email to the local rescue we adopted him from just go inform them as they no longer re-home piggies so I'll have to look elsewhere.

 

[Freela]

I'm so sorry for your loss! I know from personal experience that when something goes drastically wrong for pigs, it happens very quickly and often without warning. The past several pigs I've lost have gone from seemingly fine to passing away within a single day, sometimes just a few hours. It's very hard, and often there's no obvious cause to explain it. But it sounds like you gave her a wonderful life. Unfortunately guinea pigs living to 8 or 10 or even more is just not that common... the average life expectancy is 5 to 7 years. ((HUGS)) to you and so sorry for your loss!

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you everyone xx

Yeah the second vet did advise expect her to pass within the next 12 hours when he offered PTS and said about her temp being so low, but I thought there would be no harm in having her admitted to attempt treatment as I knew the vet would keep her comfortable and PTS at any point if enough was enough.

That's interesting about the genetics these days, it was in the past my piggies lived so long. Recently they've became poorly before reaching those ages. Ellie came from a rescue but before that she'd been bought from pets at home.

The links are very helpful thank you.

Thankfully Rocco is acting as normal, although I know he will be affected by being alone. I've sent an email to the local rescue we adopted him from just go inform them as they no longer re-home piggies so I'll have to look elsewhere.

Have you tried Milhaven Guinea Pig Rescue in Keighley?
Here is the link to our list of recommended good welfare standard rescues that we can vouch for. They are going through a pretty thorough vetting process that looks at all stages of the rescue process.
Rescue Locator

All the best. This time of year is always extra awkward but if Rocco is hanging in there, he should be able to wait until next year for having a say in who he wants to live with.

 

[Liz47]

Thank you both xx I've actually moved so my location isn't correct, but the rescue Rocco came from is on that map, Palace Piggie Rescue. I'm keeping my eye on local RSPCA's for now but they don't get piggies often.

 

[Glennie_P]

Reading this, it sounds very similar to what I'm going through right now. I'm really sorry for your loss