Sudden loss of mobility

[Piglington Ali]

Gracie age 6.5. I'd love your thoughts on her please.

I've put some videos together on YouTube as I can't upload them here:

She had bloat this past week. She had all the usual tummy meds, we got her through the bloat, but she has very squishy poops now. She had two tiny doses of vetergesic as she was in a lot of pain and tramadol did nothing. I've read vetergesic can have this effect on mobility but it's been 36 hours since her last dose (last 3 videos are in past hour). I'm pretty sure this all started after the vetergesic, she certainly wasn't anywhere near like this before it, but I'm questioning whether there was an element of this pre-vetergesic and therefore if it's part of her illness and not the med. She's not reacted badly to tramadol in the past.

She saw a non exotics vet yesterday who didn't say much really. I think she thought it could be opioid reaction but to be honest she talked more about other issues that aren't important right now. Was hard to deal with the acute situation. She didn't put her on antibiotics but I wonder if this could be the result of infection.

She has all the desire to move around and eat. Although she has everything she needs in one spot she will determinedly drag herself around the cage. She is enthusiastic about her feeds but tires quickly. She likes her metacam. She likes veg but she can't have it now with her squishy poops. She eats hay. She shows no sign of pain now. She's a little pale. She's on metacam, fibreplex, ranitidine, lots of Pro C probiotic, critical care, mushed nuggets.

I'd love any ideas on what else this might be if not opioid. I'd be surprised if vitamin c deficiency as it came on so fast and she's getting a lot in supplements.

I'll take her to my usual vet tomorrow (I hope she's in ) but I like to go armed with lots of questions.

This isn't like when pigs have slowed down at the end of life. It came on suddenly, she was doing better than ever a week ago, and it's not getting worse, just staying the same.

 

[Siikibam]

I’m afraid I can’t help you there. I hope you get some answers from the vet tomorrow. Meanwhile have a read of the guide below on low mobility.
Looking after guinea pigs with limited or no mobility

 

[Merab]

Holding you in my thoughts - it's all I can offer

 

[Wiebke]

Hi and welcome

Please take the time to read our mobility care guide so you know how to look after your old lady best: Looking after guinea pigs with limited or no mobility

Digestive symptoms and back leg paralysis are often linked when the cause is a pain issue, either a temporary one (which can often be impossible to trace) or a longer term one like arthritis in the lower spine because the the gut wraps itself firmly around all organs in the lower body. Temporary intense pain can often partial or full gut stasis or a tummy upset (gassing or diarrhea); sometimes you can get all of it in turn. If you have still got the prescribed gut supplements, please give them now. Depending on what is causing them, the gut may remain on the tender side for some time or the rest of the life in older piggies, so you may want to disguss with your vet whether having some gut stimulants at home for you to be able to step in whenever needed would be useful, based on their own examination and assessment.
Digestive Disorders: Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) And Not Eating

Thankfully, in many cases the back leg paralysis will reverse at least to a certain degree although your piggy may remain a bit more wobbly on her legs; it depends on the severity and the cause of the issues. Causes can vary much more widely than most people doing an online research are led to believe; all three episodes I had so far with older piggies of mine were different but none of them was your classic calcium drop paralysis. In all cases the paralysis did revert; twice pretty quickly in a matter of hours/a couple of days in the wake of sudden one-off intense pain/GI stasis/paralysis episode (my 5 year old Beryn just in January with the back leg paralysis on the after the partial GI stasis(?) followed by bloating a couple of hours later) and once more slowly when the paralysis was caused by a swelling/accumulation of water starting in the adrenal gland area once the fluid build-up where Nerys remained wobbly in the wake her regaining use of her back legs in the wake of the fluid build up draining away just in time for her 8th birthday.

It all depends on your vet's finding - but please don't expect that the cause will be necessarily found as some one-off/temporary pain events or neurological issues don't exactly leave any traces. A list of the most common causes of back leg paralysis is included in the mobility guide link above.

All the best. I hope that this helps you?

 

[Piglington Ali]

Hi and welcome

Please take the time to read our mobility care guide so you know how to look after your old lady best: Looking after guinea pigs with limited or no mobility

Digestive symptoms and back leg paralysis are often linked when the cause is a pain issue, either a temporary one (which can often be impossible to trace) or a longer term one like arthritis in the lower spine because the the gut wraps itself firmly around all organs in the lower body. Temporary intense pain can often partial or full gut stasis or a tummy upset (gassing or diarrhea); sometimes you can get all of it in turn. If you have still got the prescribed gut supplements, please give them now. Depending on what is causing them, the gut may remain on the tender side for some time or the rest of the life in older piggies, so you may want to disguss with your vet whether having some gut stimulants at home for you to be able to step in whenever needed would be useful, based on their own examination and assessment.
Digestive Disorders: Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) And Not Eating

Thankfully, in many cases the back leg paralysis will reverse at least to a certain degree although your piggy may remain a bit more wobbly on her legs; it depends on the severity and the cause of the issues. Causes can vary much more widely than most people doing an online research are led to believe; all three episodes I had so far with older piggies of mine were different but none of them was your classic calcium drop paralysis. In all cases the paralysis did revert; twice pretty quickly in a matter of hours/a couple of days in the wake of sudden one-off intense pain/GI stasis/paralysis episode (my 5 year old Beryn just in January with the back leg paralysis on the after the partial GI stasis(?) followed by bloating a couple of hours later) and once more slowly when the paralysis was caused by a swelling/accumulation of water starting in the adrenal gland area once the fluid build-up where Nerys remained wobbly in the wake her regaining use of her back legs in the wake of the fluid build up draining away just in time for her 8th birthday.

It all depends on your vet's finding - but please don't expect that the cause will be necessarily found as some one-off/temporary pain events or neurological issues don't exactly leave any traces. A list of the most common causes of back leg paralysis is included in the mobility guide link above.

All the best. I hope that this helps you?

Thank you that's all very helpful and gives me hope. Thank you for the links (and thanks to siikibam). I'll give them a read now. I am leaning more towards this being related to the gut issue and I won't be surprised if my vet puts her on antibiotics tomorrow.

I just did veg for the others and Gracie wheeked when I chopped so she's certainly feeling okay in herself. I picked her a bit of mature grass and two sow thistles (good nutrition source) so as not to leave her out. I did her CC feed too and she held her head up a bit more than the last few feeds so that's hopeful.

She's still on all the tummy meds except emeprid as things are moving through her too fast if anything (she's still on ranitidine plus Pro C and fibreplex).

Thanks again. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you that's all very helpful and gives me hope. Thank you for the links (and thanks to siikibam). I'll give them a read now. I am leaning more towards this being related to the gut issue and I won't be surprised if my vet puts her on antibiotics tomorrow.

I just did veg for the others and Gracie wheeked when I chopped so she's certainly feeling okay in herself. I picked her a bit of mature grass and two sow thistles (good nutrition source) so as not to leave her out. I did her CC feed too and she held her head up a bit more than the last few feeds so that's hopeful.

She's still on all the tummy meds except emeprid as things are moving through her too fast if anything (she's still on ranitidine plus Pro C and fibreplex).

Thanks again. I'll keep you posted.

The problem with the back leg paralysis is that the problem is most likely NOT sitting in the gut but impacting on it and the lower spine, if both back legs are affected. Antibiotics would rather surprise me, frankly!

 

[Piglington Ali]

Hi and welcome

Please take the time to read our mobility care guide so you know how to look after your old lady best: Looking after guinea pigs with limited or no mobility

Digestive symptoms and back leg paralysis are often linked when the cause is a pain issue, either a temporary one (which can often be impossible to trace) or a longer term one like arthritis in the lower spine because the the gut wraps itself firmly around all organs in the lower body. Temporary intense pain can often partial or full gut stasis or a tummy upset (gassing or diarrhea); sometimes you can get all of it in turn. If you have still got the prescribed gut supplements, please give them now. Depending on what is causing them, the gut may remain on the tender side for some time or the rest of the life in older piggies, so you may want to disguss with your vet whether having some gut stimulants at home for you to be able to step in whenever needed would be useful, based on their own examination and assessment.
Digestive Disorders: Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) And Not Eating

Thankfully, in many cases the back leg paralysis will reverse at least to a certain degree although your piggy may remain a bit more wobbly on her legs; it depends on the severity and the cause of the issues. Causes can vary much more widely than most people doing an online research are led to believe; all three episodes I had so far with older piggies of mine were different but none of them was your classic calcium drop paralysis. In all cases the paralysis did revert; twice pretty quickly in a matter of hours/a couple of days in the wake of sudden one-off intense pain/GI stasis/paralysis episode (my 5 year old Beryn just in January with the back leg paralysis on the after the partial GI stasis(?) followed by bloating a couple of hours later) and once more slowly when the paralysis was caused by a swelling/accumulation of water starting in the adrenal gland area once the fluid build-up where Nerys remained wobbly in the wake her regaining use of her back legs in the wake of the fluid build up draining away just in time for her 8th birthday.

It all depends on your vet's finding - but please don't expect that the cause will be necessarily found as some one-off/temporary pain events or neurological issues don't exactly leave any traces. A list of the most common causes of back leg paralysis is included in the mobility guide link above.

All the best. I hope that this helps you?

Thank you that's all very helpful and gives me hope. Thank you for the links (and thanks to siikibam). I'll give them a read now.

I just did veg for the others and Gracie wheeked when I chopped so she's certainly feeling okay in herself. I picked her a bit of mature grass and two sow thistles (high in calcium amongst other things) so as not to leave her out. I then did a feed and she was holding her head up a bit more than the last feed so that is hopeful.

She's still on all the tummy meds except emeprid as things are moving through her OK too fast if anything (she's on ranitidine still).

 

[Piglington Ali]

Sorry weird things going on with my messages on my phone. Ignore that last repeated one.

She just sat up a bit more easily at her feed, not flopping her head down so much, so that's a bit of improvement.

She didn't have any mobility problems when the bloat first came on so it seems the bloat came first. She has some mild dental issues and I think a little dental flare caused the bloat and then the paralysis has happened just as the bloat was easing. So it's all a bit of a mystery really. Can arthritis come on or worsen suddenly? She did already have a little jaw arthritis (hence teeth issues).

 

[Piglington Ali]

She was starting to improve yesterday, gaining a little more strength, wheeking for veg, drinking from the bottle by herself, holding her head up throughout a feed, we were so hopeful, but she's plummeted today. Lost her zest. Vet has given her subcut glucose/saline and pain relief but we're seeing no improvement. I don't think she's going to make it.

I'm still not certain this isn't the vetergesic (vet didn't think so) as she has gone through the exact same behaviour patterns as her daughter Hope a few weeks ago after vetergesic (I posted about her on here as well). She lost mobility but was really happy being pain free, enthusiastic about food etc., then two days later plummeted, lost her zest, we had her pts as she had a number of health issues including a bladder stone, I knew it had all got too much. Gracie has behaved exactly the same over the same time frame and we'll probably have her pts this evening the exact same amount of time after the first vetergesic dose. Another pig of mine has had no issues whatsoever with vetergesic but my mother and daughter pair have had the same reactions and both lost / losing the battle in the exact same way. I really think there's something in that.

 

[Merab]

I am so sorry to read this.
It’s such a tough decision to have to make.
Holding you in my heart