Stubborn URI - help please

[Daniross95]

Hi all,

One of my boys Punk got diagnosed with a URI on the 6th July 2022 and was given a 10 day course of Sulfatrim. All 10 days were completed and his symptoms went away.

Around 3 days after symptoms went away, they came back. We were given a full bottle of Sulfatrim so decided to give it another go but for 14 days incase 10 days wasn’t long enough, again, symptoms went away in the first 10 days but on the 11th day they came back, even though he was still on the medication. I found this odd.

Took him back to the vets yesterday and they prescribed Baytril. They also said he had a heart murmur which they didn’t hear on the initial visit. They also provided us with some metacam which they didn’t before. He has had 2 does of the Baytril & metacam so far and is probably the most lethargic he has been since diagnosis. The first bouts he was never this lethargic, he is really reserved and hiding away and won’t come out to eat at all. I have seen him drinking (which contains probiotics), but not as much as normal. Because of this I am also syringe feeding him critical care with extra probiotics mixed in every 3-4 hours and will carry on doing so. He isn’t very keen so I’m only managing around 5ml each time I give it. He has also lost weight.

Has anyone got any advice or know how long to give it for the Baytril to start working and him to improve? His hooting and loud breathing had stopped but he has discharge by his nose still. I am very concerned he is just not eating & seems really down and sad. Also anyone know if it’s likely to just be a stubborn URI rather than anything sinister like heart failure?

Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated,

Thanks!

Dani & Punk

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear this.

In terms of the syringe feeding and weight loss, as he is losing weight and is only taking around 5ml per sitting then you may need to start to feed more often than 3-4 hours, perhaps feed every 2 hours. You are aiming for as much feed as necessary to stop weight loss. The amount is very piggy dependent, but to aim for around 40-60ml per 24 hours and then adjust accordingly to stop the weight loss.

All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

It will take a few days for the antibiotic to start working

 

[Piggies&buns]

Just re read and noticed that you may have added probiotics into his water bottle? If so, then doing so isn’t recommended as it can change the taste of the water and stop them from wanting to drink.

You say he’s not keen on the syringe feed - do you mean not keen on syringe feeding on general or on the type of feed you are using?

 

[Daniross95]

Thank you for your quick response! I will try give him more critical care but he’s taken a really bad turn the last few hours and doesn’t even want to swallow it, but going to do my best.

He’s been having the probiotic in his water for a few weeks now & was drinking fine and not put off it (until this sudden decline). I did syringe him some probiotic earlier too which I will carry on doing.

He’s usually not great with syringe feeding in general as he is quite sassy, but today it’s just been so much harder. I am worried he isn’t going to make it through the night. I am mostly unsure on if the URI is making him feel this poorly and the Baytril needs another day to kick in or the Baytril is making him feel more poorly , it’s hard to tell as wouldnt want to stop giving him the Baytril.

I think I am going to spend the night near the cage and waking up every so often to check on him and feed him, but I don’t have high hopes I am unsure on what a vet could even say or do at this point considering I saw them yesterday and she basically said if he has heart disease they can’t treat it, it would be around £150 for me to get a consultation at this time too.


Thanks

Dani & Punk

 

[Free Ranger]

Hi, I don't have much URI experience but Baytril is generally considered a very safe antibiotic for pigs and is the first one my vet reaches for when we go in with suspected infections. It hasn't had any side effects for my pigs although some posters have described a loss of appetite with antibiotics. Usually you start seeing a difference with antibiotics within 1-3 days so if he took them for 10 days before you saw any difference I'd be concerned that infection wasn't the problem.

What are the dose and concentration of Baytril and the dose and concentration of metacam? And do you give both twice a day?

Is he still pooping and how do his poops look? Normal or thinner and drier? Or has he stopped altogether? Poops run a couple of days behind intake so at the point where you see fewer poops you know his appetite slowed a day or two before. We are trying to avoid gut stasis by syringe feeding to give the medication time to work. Do you know how much weight he's lost and over how long?

It's very stressful for you at this point - we all know how hard it is to nurse a poorly pig and especially thought the night. I do feel for you.

Would you be able to add your location to the side-bar? Then your advice could be tailored a bit more... I've just assumed you're in the UK!

 

[Daniross95]

Hi, I don't have much URI experience but Baytril is generally considered a very safe antibiotic for pigs and is the first one my vet reaches for when we go in with suspected infections. It hasn't had any side effects for my pigs although some posters have described a loss of appetite with antibiotics. Usually you start seeing a difference with antibiotics within 1-3 days so if he took them for 10 days before you saw any difference I'd be concerned that infection wasn't the problem.

What are the dose and concentration of Baytril and the dose and concentration of metacam? And do you give both twice a day?

Is he still pooping and how do his poops look? Normal or thinner and drier? Or has he stopped altogether? Poops run a couple of days behind intake so at the point where you see fewer poops you know his appetite slowed a day or two before. We are trying to avoid gut stasis by syringe feeding to give the medication time to work. Do you know how much weight he's lost and over how long?

It's very stressful for you at this point - we all know how hard it is to nurse a poorly pig and especially thought the night. I do feel for you.

Would you be able to add your location to the side-bar? Then your advice could be tailored a bit more... I've just assumed you're in the UK!

Thank you for your reply!

So at the initial diagnosis he was given sulfatrim for 10 days, showed an improvement and symptoms went away after those 10 days and then they came back so we tried again for 14 days & same thing again symptoms went away but on day 11 they came back. So yesterday the vet prescribed Baytril to try instead for 14 days which we started yesterday, so he has had 2 doses.

He has had Baytril before when he had a UTI and it gave him a bad belly and no appetite so I’ve made an effort to syringe probiotics for all antibiotics I give now. But today he has really gone down hill, he was drinking and nibbling on nuggets this morning but since then he has no interest in food, water or veggies. I have been syringing every few hours but now he’s not even taking it, or swallowing properly. I am sat with him in my arms now and I am really worried the worst will happen, I know I should call the out of hours vet but I am worried they will just tell me to PTS as he might be too far gone and I’d rather he was at home. It’s really tough. I could be wrong though and if he makes it through the night the Baytril then might start to kick in?

But the vet did suspect heart disease if this Baytril doesn’t work which i am worried about as she said it’s hard to treat.

I am from Winchester in Hampshire, UK

Thanks

Dani & Punk

 

[Free Ranger]

Is he on standard sort of doses of Baytril? Something like 0.2ml of 2.5% twice a day? Or on a higher dose. When did he have his latest dose?
So his breathing is better... but he still has nasal discharge...
The last time he was on Baytril how soon after it finishing did he get his appetite back?

If you know he had a bad time on it previously then it could well be that if he's been run down for a while with his URI too and already lost some weight. Heart disease unfortunately I don't know anything about.

 

[Daniross95]

I am so sad to be writing this but he has now passed away. I had him out and he was not responsive to me whatsoever.. he then started to seize & convulse so I just made sure he was comfortable and loved in that moment I am truly gutted he is such a big part of my life

I am also quite annoyed as I’ve done everything right and what I should have so no idea how or why it got to this stage I’m so sorry to waste your time. I am gutted.

 

[Free Ranger]

You have absolutely not wasted anyone's time and I am so very sorry for your loss

You tried to do everything right for him and it sounds like your vet has done what mine would have done too... we've had a very stubborn urinary infection that cleared with ABs (piggy better after 2 days but the course was over 2 weeks worth) but then it returned a few days after stopping - so we repeated the ABs again for over 2 weeks and ultimately this did the job for our particular infection. But in your case there may well have been an underlying condition that wasn't spotted initially and which he couldn't get over but I just don't know enough about that to be able to say anything more. There have been piggies on the forum who have responded well to medication for heart disease but other who after an initial improvement have unexpectedly deteriorated and passed away. Punk would have known he was loved and in his own home as he approached the end. By the time they get to the point where they convulse they are generally thought to be unaware of what is happening, which is a blessing. It's very hard for us owners when we nurse them for a long time and they still have to go, but it sounds like he had a good life with you because you are such a caring owner. I don't know how old he was but piggies don't have any expectation of how many years they could live. They just measure their lives in happy todays. Spend time with your remaining boy and comfort each other because he will miss Punk as much as you will