Struggling with my piggies

[Figgy&Missy]

HI,

I'm a little nervous about making this post;

About two months ago, I bought a female guinea pig from a pet store that told me she was about 10 weeks old. For a week, I let her settle into her new home (I didn't have any other piggies at this point and no local stores had any either, so she couldn't have a friend yet). I didn't touch her; I wanted her to get used to my voice and presence first, but I held my hand in the cage with food for a couple of minutes, a couple of times a day.

After about three weeks of having her, she would sometimes pop her head out when she knew I had carrot before taking a piece and quickly hopping back into her house - I got so excited - I thought I was slowly bonding with her, and the pet store had some female guinea pigs come in! During this mark, however, I woke up at about 3 in the morning to her making a lot of noise and I got really concerned, so I lifted her house to check on her and she had decided to pop out three babies. The pet store didn't know she was pregnant, she wasn't showing at all - apparently before she was brought into the store, the previous owner claimed to have separated her from males, but they're now not sure.

I read everything I could on guinea pig babies and I spoke to my aunt about them (she's a vet), and they're doing really well. I didn't touch or handle them for three weeks (or my new Mumma pig, this was recommended by a lot of sources on the internet), and they are currently four weeks. I've been giving them all lap time when I can and trying to feed them from my hand. I've also tried to bond again with my new Mumma pig separately, but after about 2 minutes, she starts whining and vibrating - I've seen sources say this is either positive or negative, but I'm certain it's because she's still scared of me. So, I bring the babies out with her, but they all whine, too. Sometimes Mumma growls when I sit outside her cage, and I'm convinced she hates me. She would whine and sometimes growl even before her babies, but I though that in hindsight; it might've just been because she was pregnant.

I really want to bond with my guinea pigs, but I'm terrified of scaring them and all the whining sounds they make, and I've been really anxious thinking that maybe it's me, and that I'm a bad owner. I've read a lot of stuff online and watched a bunch of Youtube videos (before the babies came, too) and I sit by the cage and talk to them everyday, try hand feeding, lap time and that sort of stuff, but I'm scared they just hate me. I know it takes time with piggies, because they're natural prey animals but it's caused a couple tears haha.

Any help on bonding or maybe improving something I'm doing wrong would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Freela]

First off, you need to determine the sex of your babies. Male pigs can reproduce early (it's generally recommended to remove boys before four weeks because they can get mom/sisters pregnant at that point.) So before anything else, it's really vital to separate any male babies and to put mom and any remaining females on pregnancy watch.

After that you can work on getting to know your little piggie family, but first thing is to make sure the family isn't growing more than it already has! We do have pics on the pregnancy board about determining males versus females- you know mom is a girl, so comparing babies to her may help as well. Generally, females have a fleshy seal that one can slightly separate... males have a penis that can be felt above the slit and gentle pressure can get it to protrude.

 

[Princess Dustmop]

Guinea pigs don't show pregnancy until pretty close to birth, so it's not actually that surprising that the pet shop might not know. Furthermore, guinea pigs can become pregnant starting at around 3 weeks old ... the previous owner didn)t have to miss by much to end up with a pregnant piggy ... if a brother was ready for action when she had her first season, that's all it takes. The timing seems about right given the information you've listed ... her season would have been at 3 weeks; she was 10 weeks when you got her, so 7 weeks pregnant (about the first point a pregnant guinea pig might show signs of pregnancy but of course she was also a growing piggy and they may not have been watching that closely even if she was starting to show just before you adopted her); you had her the last three weeks of the ten week pregnancy ... The only way they would have really known would have been an ultrasound (which they didn't know to do if they believed the previous owner) or holding herthe ten weeks before adopting her out to be sure.
This explains it a bit better
(Quick story: One of my previous piggies and her sister were surrendered to a rescue around here possibly pregnant; the rescue held both at a foster on pregnancy watch. She was pregnant and had two babies (at the foster); her sister had managed to escape without pregnancy ...)


If your babies are already four weeks old, you need to be sure they're all girls; if any are boys, they need to be separated immediately, or mum and any girls are at risk of becoming pregnant.
Sexing/Separating Guide
You're past most of this now, but for your knowledge:
Care Guide for Mother and Baby Guinea Pigs

There are a number of sounds that are pretty similar, some of which are happy, others of which are less happy. I'm not much good at diagnosis from a description. Maybe these will help, though:
Guide of Behaviors
Sounds and their Meanings

You're not a bad owner! From what you've said here, you're a very caring owner who's trying their best.

 

[weepweeps]

What a shock for you. Good luck. It sounds like you are doing great.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I'm so sorry you’ve found yourself in this situation.

I agree with the advice above.
You must determine the sex of the babies urgently to prevent any boars getting their mother pregnant. Boars need to be separated from their mothers and siblings at 3 weeks/21 days of age, or 250g in weight.
This is also why being told not to handle the babies in the early weeks was not correct. Its important babies are weighed regularly after birth to ensure they are gaining weight well, but also to be sure any baby boys are removed at the 250g weight cut off.

https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/sexing-separating-baby-boars-and-rehoming-babies.109391/

The mother is likely a little older than you were told though. Sows have their first season between 4 and 6 weeks of age so giving birth at 13 weeks of age is not likely (that would have meant she would have had a first season at 3 weeks of age which isn’t common) - so she would need to be 14-16 weeks of age when she had the babies.

https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/illustrated-sexing-guide-for-all-ages.156297/
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk...on-collection-incl-help-with-any-dads.191229/


In terms of bonding, you aren’t a bad owner, please don’t be upset. Sit by their cage and talk to them, offering food from your hand but also take their lead. If she gets upset by it, then step back and try again another day.
They may never like to be handled though, they may be happier for you to watch them, offer food from your hand. My own two boys don’t like being held and I only handle them for the weekly weight and health checks. They hate any lap time and it’s not enjoyable for them or for me knowing they don’t like being handled.

This is our guide on piggy whispering
Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering and Cuddling Tips

 

[Princess Dustmop]

The mother is likely a little older than you were told though. Sows have their first season between 4 and 6 weeks of age so giving birth at 13 weeks of age is not likely (that would have meant she would have had a first season at 3 weeks of age which isn’t common) - so she would need to be 14-16 weeks of age when she had the babies.

Ah, sorry ... I remembered my vet checking when I got young girls that had questionable separation before I got them (neither of them was pregnant), but they would have been 4-5 weeks old, and I knew boys could be as early as three weeks. Thank you for the correction.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Ah, sorry ... I remembered my vet checking when I got young girls that had questionable separation before I got them (neither of them were pregnant), but they would have been 4-5 weeks old, and I knew boys could be as early as three weeks. Thank you for the correction.

Yes, boars are fertile from 3 weeks but the weight is also important. A 3 week old boar who is well less than the 250g cut off weight is not likely to get anybody pregnant and can sometimes stay on with mum for another few days but a daily weight check needs to be done from that point to make sure they are separated by 250g.

 

[Free Ranger]

You're doing fine - and if your Aunt is a vet over there in Oz your pigs are in a much better position than they would be elsewhere! My own pigs are not 'cuddly' because they have their own space and their own lives - they have each other and they like that just fine. But because I handfeed their veg they associate me with food and love me accordingly - it's shameless bribery! They also associate me with the odd nail clipping session (mine are oldies and the claws are wild) and my fluffy girl also has her hair cut. That's why she loves piggy daddy best - he brings in the grass and is a soft touch at the fridge

There is actually a feature about pet anxiety that has been added recently... trust me, you are not the first to be sweating this much.
Pet Owners Anxiety - Practical Tips For Sufferers and For Supporters

Just sort your boys from your girls and think about space etc. And tbh I'd be careful of random internet advice - stick with this forum - it contains everything you need to know and the reasons behind it all. A lot of the senior members have got literally decades of experience keeping pigs in all sorts of circumstances and so have a lifetime of experience: always learning, recognising fads, improving housing and diets, tweaking interactions etc - if the answer isn't already on here you can always start a new thread to ask specifics. We'll hold your hand all the way thru x

Welcome aboard!

 

[Figgy&Missy]

Thank you - I was able to determine she had two boys and a girl, which were separated last week~

First off, you need to determine the sex of your babies. Male pigs can reproduce early (it's generally recommended to remove boys before four weeks because they can get mom/sisters pregnant at that point.) So before anything else, it's really vital to separate any male babies and to put mom and any remaining females on pregnancy watch.

After that you can work on getting to know your little piggie family, but first thing is to make sure the family isn't growing more than it already has! We do have pics on the pregnancy board about determining males versus females- you know mom is a girl, so comparing babies to her may help as well. Generally, females have a fleshy seal that one can slightly separate... males have a penis that can be felt above the slit and gentle pressure can get it to protrude.

 

[Figgy&Missy]

Thank you! I've been able to seperate them - she had two boys and a girl~
For some reason, the Mumma pig always seem to be displeased/whine when I pat her or when I give her lap time, but the boys are completely fine with it

Guinea pigs don't show pregnancy until pretty close to birth, so it's not actually that surprising that the pet shop might not know. Furthermore, guinea pigs can become pregnant starting at around 3 weeks old ... the previous owner didn)t have to miss by much to end up with a pregnant piggy ... if a brother was ready for action when she had her first season, that's all it takes. The timing seems about right given the information you've listed ... her season would have been at 3 weeks; she was 10 weeks when you got her, so 7 weeks pregnant (about the first point a pregnant guinea pig might show signs of pregnancy but of course she was also a growing piggy and they may not have been watching that closely even if she was starting to show just before you adopted her); you had her the last three weeks of the ten week pregnancy ... The only way they would have really known would have been an ultrasound (which they didn't know to do if they believed the previous owner) or holding herthe ten weeks before adopting her out to be sure.
This explains it a bit better
(Quick story: One of my previous piggies and her sister were surrendered to a rescue around here possibly pregnant; the rescue held both at a foster on pregnancy watch. She was pregnant and had two babies (at the foster); her sister had managed to escape without pregnancy ...)


If your babies are already four weeks old, you need to be sure they're all girls; if any are boys, they need to be separated immediately, or mum and any girls are at risk of becoming pregnant.
Sexing/Separating Guide
You're past most of this now, but for your knowledge:
Care Guide for Mother and Baby Guinea Pigs

There are a number of sounds that are pretty similar, some of which are happy, others of which are less happy. I'm not much good at diagnosis from a description. Maybe these will help, though:
Guide of Behaviors
Sounds and their Meanings

You're not a bad owner! From what you've said here, you're a very caring owner who's trying their best.

 

[Figgy&Missy]

I'm so sorry you’ve found yourself in this situation.

I agree with the advice above.
You must determine the sex of the babies urgently to prevent any boars getting their mother pregnant. Boars need to be separated from their mothers and siblings at 3 weeks/21 days of age, or 250g in weight.
This is also why being told not to handle the babies in the early weeks was not correct. Its important babies are weighed regularly after birth to ensure they are gaining weight well, but also to be sure any baby boys are removed at the 250g weight cut off.

https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/sexing-separating-baby-boars-and-rehoming-babies.109391/

The mother is likely a little older than you were told though. Sows have their first season between 4 and 6 weeks of age so giving birth at 13 weeks of age is not likely (that would have meant she would have had a first season at 3 weeks of age which isn’t common) - so she would need to be 14-16 weeks of age when she had the babies.

https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/illustrated-sexing-guide-for-all-ages.156297/
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk...on-collection-incl-help-with-any-dads.191229/


In terms of bonding, you aren’t a bad owner, please don’t be upset. Sit by their cage and talk to them, offering food from your hand but also take their lead. If she gets upset by it, then step back and try again another day.
They may never like to be handled though, they may be happier for you to watch them, offer food from your hand. My own two boys don’t like being held and I only handle them for the weekly weight and health checks. They hate any lap time and it’s not enjoyable for them or for me knowing they don’t like being handled.

This is our guide on piggy whispering
Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering and Cuddling Tips

Thank you so much, that has actually been really helpful!
Is there any way you can sort of 'tame' them?

 

[Figgy&Missy]

You're doing fine - and if your Aunt is a vet over there in Oz your pigs are in a much better position than they would be elsewhere! My own pigs are not 'cuddly' because they have their own space and their own lives - they have each other and they like that just fine. But because I handfeed their veg they associate me with food and love me accordingly - it's shameless bribery! They also associate me with the odd nail clipping session (mine are oldies and the claws are wild) and my fluffy girl also has her hair cut. That's why she loves piggy daddy best - he brings in the grass and is a soft touch at the fridge

There is actually a feature about pet anxiety that has been added recently... trust me, you are not the first to be sweating this much.
Pet Owners Anxiety - Practical Tips For Sufferers and For Supporters

Just sort your boys from your girls and think about space etc. And tbh I'd be careful of random internet advice - stick with this forum - it contains everything you need to know and the reasons behind it all. A lot of the senior members have got literally decades of experience keeping pigs in all sorts of circumstances and so have a lifetime of experience: always learning, recognising fads, improving housing and diets, tweaking interactions etc - if the answer isn't already on here you can always start a new thread to ask specifics. We'll hold your hand all the way thru x

Welcome aboard!

Thank you , really!
This has been really helpful, and it feels good to know I'm not the only one and that maybe it's just their individual piggy personalities ~

 

[Swissgreys]

Thank you so much, that has actually been really helpful!
Is there any way you can sort of 'tame' them?

Sadly guinea pigs are often portrayed as 'cuddly lap pets' which many of them simply aren't.
Taming can take weeks (or even months) and the reality is that no matter how hard you try, a large number of them will simply never enjoy being held or cuddled.

What is your ultimate goal with your guinea pigs?
If it is to be able to cuddle them a lot then this may never happen?
If it is to have them come up to the bars to take food and observe their funny little antics, then this is very achievable - it just takes time and patience.

 

[Free Ranger]

If you've ended up with a pair of boys and a pair of girls they've all got a buddy and that's great!
The mum might have been roughly handled in the past. Over time she will learn to trust you more. They turn up with their own baggage but love and kindness will win through. Although we don't routinely do lap time we did have a space we put our girls in when the pair first arrived and my daughter would go in for a little cuddle at ground level, so piggy (in this case Louise) could get away if she needed to. But for a while she stayed and enjoyed the petting