Strong Cystitis, Cartrophen and Glucosamine

[JetPeanut]

Hello Everyone,
The purpose of this post is to provide some information about our experiences with a pretty strong case of cystitis. It is our hope that other owners can benefit from our findings.
Our 2 and a half year old female has been suffering from cystitis for just over a year now. After her diagnosis, we began a daily glucosamine regiment of 125 mg of Feliway glucosamine (half a capsule mixed with water every 12 hours). This did the trick for about 4 months until the squeaking began to sneak back into the picture. Just as the moderator suggested, I doubled the dose for 3 days in hopes of quelling the flare. It took the edge off, but it didn't solve the problem. As recommended by the moderator (thank you again), we were off to the our vet the next day. She admitted that our problem and treatment was fairly new to her. She is a wonderful lady and listened attentively. Then, she went out of her way to research Cartrophen and glucosamine thoroughly. She called back with a possible solution. We did 4 weekly starter doses of Cartrophen and then maintained with a monthly shot. She also suggested to continue the glucosamine if the Cartrophen alone wasn't cutting it. I asked if we would be overdosing this way. She informed us that Cartrophen worked differently.
Predictably, the Cartrophen wasn't enough on its own. Fast forward to the present (4 months later)... we have settled in on one half capsule of glucosamine every 8 hours to go along with the monthly dose of Cartrophen.
For the time being, we get the very odd squeak, but she appears to be much more comfortable.
Fingers crossed that we have found a permanent solution. Many thanks again to the moderator for all the guidance.

 

[Wiebke]

Hello Everyone,
The purpose of this post is to provide some information about our experiences with a pretty strong case of cystitis. It is our hope that other owners can benefit from our findings.
Our 2 and a half year old female has been suffering from cystitis for just over a year now. After her diagnosis, we began a daily glucosamine regiment of 125 mg of Feliway glucosamine (half a capsule mixed with water every 12 hours). This did the trick for about 4 months until the squeaking began to sneak back into the picture. Just as the moderator suggested, I doubled the dose for 3 days in hopes of quelling the flare. It took the edge off, but it didn't solve the problem. As recommended by the moderator (thank you again), we were off to the our vet the next day. She admitted that our problem and treatment was fairly new to her. She is a wonderful lady and listened attentively. Then, she went out of her way to research Cartrophen and glucosamine thoroughly. She called back with a possible solution. We did 4 weekly starter doses of Cartrophen and then maintained with a monthly shot. She also suggested to continue the glucosamine if the Cartrophen alone wasn't cutting it. I asked if we would be overdosing this way. She informed us that Cartrophen worked differently.
Predictably, the Cartrophen wasn't enough on its own. Fast forward to the present (4 months later)... we have settled in on one half capsule of glucosamine every 8 hours to go along with the monthly dose of Cartrophen.
For the time being, we get the very odd squeak, but she appears to be much more comfortable.
Fingers crossed that we have found a permanent solution. Many thanks again to the moderator for all the guidance.

Hi

Thank you for your feedback!

Since cartrofen is relatively newly used for guinea pigs with the severe end of sterile cystitis, there are not yet many longer term experiences in that area - cartrofen has been indeed the first drug that has pushed the limit of having a drug for more severe cases further into the deep end of the spectrum with which sterile IC can present even if it is not quite miracle cure for the whole spectrum that we have been hoping for. At the sharp end we are all still down to finding by trial and error how we can push out the border where nothing works.

I am very grateful for your vet's research since that will hopefully profit others and for your feedback of your own experience. Anything that can help and that we can suggest in the future is most welcome since the alternative is stark for those poor piggies who have got the more severe forms of sterile IC.

Since sterile IC is more of a full spectrum from the very mildest forms that only make bit of an appearance when a piggy is in a stressful situation but that are otherwise controlled by the immune system to the very severest forms where a guinea pig is going downhill very quickly with nothing working, every owner has to a good degree work out at what level their own guinea pig sits and how much/little they need to control the flares and the maintenance level in between. In terms of potential long term glucosamine overuse, you basically face the welfare choice between a potentially shorter life in comparable comfort with possible complications down the line or a longer life in considerable regular discomfort. I am hoping that further research into feline sterile cystitis will also trickle down to guinea pigs.
This on the background that many vets, especially general ones, have never heard of sterile IC in the first place even though it has been around for over 15 years now...

 

[Piggies2023]

Hello Everyone,
The purpose of this post is to provide some information about our experiences with a pretty strong case of cystitis. It is our hope that other owners can benefit from our findings.
Our 2 and a half year old female has been suffering from cystitis for just over a year now. After her diagnosis, we began a daily glucosamine regiment of 125 mg of Feliway glucosamine (half a capsule mixed with water every 12 hours). This did the trick for about 4 months until the squeaking began to sneak back into the picture. Just as the moderator suggested, I doubled the dose for 3 days in hopes of quelling the flare. It took the edge off, but it didn't solve the problem. As recommended by the moderator (thank you again), we were off to the our vet the next day. She admitted that our problem and treatment was fairly new to her. She is a wonderful lady and listened attentively. Then, she went out of her way to research Cartrophen and glucosamine thoroughly. She called back with a possible solution. We did 4 weekly starter doses of Cartrophen and then maintained with a monthly shot. She also suggested to continue the glucosamine if the Cartrophen alone wasn't cutting it. I asked if we would be overdosing this way. She informed us that Cartrophen worked differently.
Predictably, the Cartrophen wasn't enough on its own. Fast forward to the present (4 months later)... we have settled in on one half capsule of glucosamine every 8 hours to go along with the monthly dose of Cartrophen.
For the time being, we get the very odd squeak, but she appears to be much more comfortable.
Fingers crossed that we have found a permanent solution. Many thanks again to the moderator for all the guidance.

Does your piggy have variable size wees please? Even within a few days of changing from needing tiny wees all the time to being able to hold their bladder

Also wondering did you see an improvement within the 4 weeks?

 

[Piggies2023]

Hi

Thank you for your feedback!

Since cartrofen is relatively newly used for guinea pigs with the severe end of sterile cystitis, there are not yet many longer term experiences in that area - cartrofen has been indeed the first drug that has pushed the limit of having a drug for more severe cases further into the deep end of the spectrum with which sterile IC can present even if it is not quite miracle cure for the whole spectrum that we have been hoping for. At the sharp end we are all still down to finding by trial and error how we can push out the border where nothing works.

I am very grateful for your vet's research since that will hopefully profit others and for your feedback of your own experience. Anything that can help and that we can suggest in the future is most welcome since the alternative is stark for those poor piggies who have got the more severe forms of sterile IC.

Since sterile IC is more of a full spectrum from the very mildest forms that only make bit of an appearance when a piggy is in a stressful situation but that are otherwise controlled by the immune system to the very severest forms where a guinea pig is going downhill very quickly with nothing working, every owner has to a good degree work out at what level their own guinea pig sits and how much/little they need to control the flares and the maintenance level in between. In terms of potential long term glucosamine overuse, you basically face the welfare choice between a potentially shorter life in comparable comfort with possible complications down the line or a longer life in considerable regular discomfort. I am hoping that further research into feline sterile cystitis will also trickle down to guinea pigs.
This on the background that many vets, especially general ones, have never heard of sterile IC in the first place even though it has been around for over 15 years now...

Does glucosamine useage cause problems then? Nancy is on 1 capsule a day. Tried increasing to two for a few days to see if it helped pain. It didn't. Though it does stop bleeding.

 

[JetPeanut]

Does your piggy have variable size wees please? Even within a few days of changing from needing tiny wees all the time to being able to hold their bladder

Also wondering did you see an improvement within the 4 weeks?

Different volumes of pee aren't a concern for me. A wet bottom and dribbling has shown me that her urethra is inflamed. (If she has longer hair, it's important to keep it trim in order to better avoid infection). The dribbling probably means that a flare is in full swing.
During the initial diagnosis of cystitis, we were able to control it for a bout 4 months with 125 mg (one capsule per day) of Feliway. Following this period, she went into a severe flare and we could not bring it down by doubling it for 3 days.
We switched to the monthly Cartrophen injection (after 4 weekly starter doses). We tried this for a couple months. Even though this controlled the bleeding, she was still whimpering. Our vet told us to add the Feliway to her Cartrophen. Initially it took a capsule and a half per day to heal her. Now we are down to three quarters of a capsule per day (about 90 mg). For the time being, she is quite comfortable. I cannot stress how important it is to always push the boundaries with respect to the least amount of oral glucosamine as possible. I will update again within a month or so.

 

[Piggies2023]

Different volumes of pee aren't a concern for me. A wet bottom and dribbling has shown me that her urethra is inflamed. (If she has longer hair, it's important to keep it trim in order to better avoid infection). The dribbling probably means that a flare is in full swing.
During the initial diagnosis of cystitis, we were able to control it for a bout 4 months with 125 mg (one capsule per day) of Feliway. Following this period, she went into a severe flare and we could not bring it down by doubling it for 3 days.
We switched to the monthly Cartrophen injection (after 4 weekly starter doses). We tried this for a couple months. Even though this controlled the bleeding, she was still whimpering. Our vet told us to add the Feliway to her Cartrophen. Initially it took a capsule and a half per day to heal her. Now we are down to three quarters of a capsule per day (about 90 mg). For the time being, she is quite comfortable. I cannot stress how important it is to always push the boundaries with respect to the least amount of oral glucosamine as possible. I will update again within a month or so.

Thank you. My Nancy takes a full capsule a day. She is also now on cartrophen. And takes metacam and gabapentin. Do you know what dose of cartrophen your piggie has? It sounds like your piggy has it quite severe.

 

[JetPeanut]

I will find out what her Cartrophen doses are. I believe it is in line with her weight. For now, like i said, the Cartrophen and 90 mg of Feliway are doing the trick. Again, always try to reduce until u find the sweet spot.

 

[Piggies2023]

I will find out what her Cartrophen doses are. I believe it is in line with her weight. For now, like i said, the Cartrophen and 90 mg of Feliway are doing the trick. Again, always try to reduce until u find the sweet spot.

Thank you.

 

[JetPeanut]

STRONG CYSTITIS, CARTROPHEN AND GLUCOSAMINE COMBINED UPDATE...
Hello everyone,
It's been many months since my last update. To be honest, it's taken me that long to settle on a "cystitis solution". In addition to her monthly Cartrophen (0.3 mls), I've still been tinkering with our 3 and a half year old female's glucosamine. 125mls/(one capsule) per day wasn't cutting it and she flared regularly, a few times were bad and I had difficulty bringing under control. As stated in my last post, I was giving her 1/2 capsule every 8 hours. This equates to about 187 mg of glucosamine per day.
I felt this was a lot, so I began working my way down. It took me months (squashing 2-3 flares with an extra capsule along the way) to find that around 140mg of glucosamine per day (combined with the monthly Cartrophen) was enough. She has been quite comfortable now for almost 3 months... fingers crossed. It's important to note that the vet instructed me to divide her glucosamine into two doses per day (not three) to allow the glucosamine to "flood" better. So this works out to about 70 mg every 12 hours.
The easiest way to get close to the 12 hour dose is to split one capsule down the middle (62.5 mg) . Then I have another capsule on the go for "topping up". I then visualize the top-up capsule in halves, and then quarters. Each quarter is then broken up into 4 top-up doses (almost 8mg each), which I add to the 62.5 half capsule. Reclosing and tapping the capsule (after removing every 1/16 top-up dose) will compact the remaining contents near the bottom in order to keep the remaining top-up doses fairly accurate.
My goal now is the break up the top-up capsule into 20 top-up doses. This is just over 6 mg (which will be added to the 62.5 mg half capsule every 12 hours.
Again, my hope is that others dealing with similar issues can find some kind of relief for their piggy and ultimately themselves.

 

[Wiebke]

STRONG CYSTITIS, CARTROPHEN AND GLUCOSAMINE COMBINED UPDATE...
Hello everyone,
It's been many months since my last update. To be honest, it's taken me that long to settle on a "cystitis solution". In addition to her monthly Cartrophen (0.3 mls), I've still been tinkering with our 3 and a half year old female's glucosamine. 125mls/(one capsule) per day wasn't cutting it and she flared regularly, a few times were bad and I had difficulty bringing under control. As stated in my last post, I was giving her 1/2 capsule every 8 hours. This equates to about 187 mg of glucosamine per day.
I felt this was a lot, so I began working my way down. It took me months (squashing 2-3 flares with an extra capsule along the way) to find that around 140mg of glucosamine per day (combined with the monthly Cartrophen) was enough. She has been quite comfortable now for almost 3 months... fingers crossed. It's important to note that the vet instructed me to divide her glucosamine into two doses per day (not three) to allow the glucosamine to "flood" better. So this works out to about 70 mg every 12 hours.
The easiest way to get close to the 12 hour dose is to split one capsule down the middle (62.5 mg) . Then I have another capsule on the go for "topping up". I then visualize the top-up capsule in halves, and then quarters. Each quarter is then broken up into 4 top-up doses (almost 8mg each), which I add to the 62.5 half capsule. Reclosing and tapping the capsule (after removing every 1/16 top-up dose) will compact the remaining contents near the bottom in order to keep the remaining top-up doses fairly accurate.
My goal now is the break up the top-up capsule into 20 top-up doses. This is just over 6 mg (which will be added to the 62.5 mg half capsule every 12 hours.
Again, my hope is that others dealing with similar issues can find some kind of relief for their piggy and ultimately themselves.

All the best. Glad that you are able to monanage the condition. Finessing it to what exactly works with your pigg is always the tricky it; especially the higher on the spectrum you get - sterile cystitis can run from the mildest to the most severe form which can kill within a short space of time.

What I do when I had to divide capsule content is to mix them with a multiple of the dosages I need - this can be 0.5 ml or 1 ml of water so I know that it is mixed evenly and I know how much to draw each time after shaking the bottle but then the mathematics needed are usually not as complex as yours since I have never had to max it out and I have always used mine up within 24 hours to 36 hours max.

 

[JetPeanut]

Hi

Thank you for your feedback!

Since cartrofen is relatively newly used for guinea pigs with the severe end of sterile cystitis, there are not yet many longer term experiences in that area - cartrofen has been indeed the first drug that has pushed the limit of having a drug for more severe cases further into the deep end of the spectrum with which sterile IC can present even if it is not quite miracle cure for the whole spectrum that we have been hoping for. At the sharp end we are all still down to finding by trial and error how we can push out the border where nothing works.

I am very grateful for your vet's research since that will hopefully profit others and for your feedback of your own experience. Anything that can help and that we can suggest in the future is most welcome since the alternative is stark for those poor piggies who have got the more severe forms of sterile IC.

Since sterile IC is more of a full spectrum from the very mildest forms that only make bit of an appearance when a piggy is in a stressful situation but that are otherwise controlled by the immune system to the very severest forms where a guinea pig is going downhill very quickly with nothing working, every owner has to a good degree work out at what level their own guinea pig sits and how much/little they need to control the flares and the maintenance level in between. In terms of potential long term glucosamine overuse, you basically face the welfare choice between a potentially shorter life in comparable comfort with possible complications down the line or a longer life in considerable regular discomfort. I am hoping that further research into feline sterile cystitis will also trickle down to guinea pigs.
This on the background that many vets, especially general ones, have never heard of sterile IC in the first place even though it has been around for over 15 years now...

Final Post (strong Cystitis / Cartrophen/ Glucosamine and previous treatments)

It is with a heavy heart that I compose this final post. I want to begin by thanking the moderator for the information about glucosamine that allowed our precious little girl Jet to be with us for almost 4 years.
In the end, her health issues simply overpowered her and we were left with no other option but to let her go.
She suffered through infections, severe Cystitis, many strong medications in response and a recently discovered, large mass in her abdomen.
Again, we want to emphasize that without this forum and the moderators timely responses, we would have lost her long ago.
A pet only has one job... to make their owners smile. And like all other pets, she accomplished this effortlessly. Thank you for giving her more time to do her job.

 

[Wiebke]

Final Post (strong Cystitis / Cartrophen/ Glucosamine and previous treatments)

It is with a heavy heart that I compose this final post. I want to begin by thanking the moderator for the information about glucosamine that allowed our precious little girl Jet to be with us for almost 4 years.
In the end, her health issues simply overpowered her and we were left with no other option but to let her go.
She suffered through infections, severe Cystitis, many strong medications in response and a recently discovered, large mass in her abdomen.
Again, we want to emphasize that without this forum and the moderators timely responses, we would have lost her long ago.
A pet only has one job... to make their owners smile. And like all other pets, she accomplished this effortlessly. Thank you for giving her more time to do her job.

I am so very sorry that you have let your much loved girl go. You can medically manage a sterile cystitis well into the medium range now but the strongest forms are sadly still out of out reach. It is such a pity that she then has developed an internal cancer in her somewhat weakened state.

But thank you for your appreciation of our efforts to support not just guinea pigs but their owners as well to he best of our possibilities during a taxing time as community on here. You can be very proud of having had that shared precious extra time. Love transcends time; it is not about the length of time but the quality of it. A joyless life span spent in an indifferent or neglectful home is just an existence; a day in a loving home is so much more. Those loving days is what guinea pigs measure a good life by; they don't have a concept for an average life span.

Nevertheless, it takes some time to digest it all and to get used to having a little furry guardian angel looking out after the mates and their family instead of a pet you can touch. But your beloved ones will always stay with us in our hearts and the priceless memories they leave us with.

Here are tips on what you can do for yourself and for the companion: End of Life and Bereavement Support: Practical Advice for Owners, Kids and Cavy Companions

Thank you for your update. We cherish updates, even sad ones since all too often we never hear about an outcome.

 

[JetPeanut]

I am so very sorry that you have let your much loved girl go. You can medically manage a sterile cystitis well into the medium range now but the strongest forms are sadly still out of out reach. It is such a pity that she then has developed an internal cancer in her somewhat weakened state.

But thank you for your appreciation of our efforts to support not just guinea pigs but their owners as well to he best of our possibilities during a taxing time as community on here. You can be very proud of having had that shared precious extra time. Love transcends time; it is not about the length of time but the quality of it. A joyless life span spent in an indifferent or neglectful home is just an existence; a day in a loving home is so much more. Those loving days is what guinea pigs measure a good life by; they don't have a concept for an average life span.

Nevertheless, it takes some time to digest it all and to get used to having a little furry guardian angel looking out after the mates and their family instead of a pet you can touch. But your beloved ones will always stay with us in our hearts and the priceless memories they leave us with.

Here are tips on what you can do for yourself and for the companion: End of Life and Bereavement Support: Practical Advice for Owners, Kids and Cavy Companions

Thank you for your update. We cherish updates, even sad ones since all too often we never hear about an outcome.

 

[JetPeanut]

Thank you for the kind words. They are appreciated and more importantly comforting.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you for the kind words. They are appreciated and more importantly comforting.

We are here for the owner's emotional support as well as their guinea pigs' welfare. The two go hand-in-hand after all.

That is why we have just one main leading voice for the medical part in our health/illness threads but there is a whole community on here to help each other with the moral support practical tips ad personal experiences for all the little questions.