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Strange Behaviour from Bramble...

Storm1974

Storm1974

Junior Guinea Pig
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So yesterday evening when we got home, Bramble seemed (who is usually absolutely full of life!) a bit subdued and his eyes didn't look quite as bright. Anyway, he ate some of his veggies last night and dived into his fresh hay when it was put in, just after we got home. But throughout the rest of the evening and the night he wasn't as active as he is normally is and wasn't rumbling at his two neighbours much either, which wasn't at all like him!

I monitored him throughout the night and found that he had just seemed to stay in his arch, instead of being up on his shelf or in his hay tray, and he wasn't eating any of his pellets, which again is not like him. So needless to say, we had a mostly sleepless night because we are so worried about him. 😞

This morning he seemed a bit more active, had gone up onto his shelf where he likes to lay and watch his two neighbours, and when we cleaned out his hay tray and put fresh hay into it, he jumped right into like he always does......But, he wouldn't eat his veggies this morning and hasn't touched them since, he's just been hiding in his hay! He's been moving a lot though, and when we moved the hay to check on him, and tried to pick him up, he raced off into his arch, so he's still got energy, but still won't even touch his favourite food ever (corriander!) and we're not sure if he's even eating hay. 😕😕

It's strange indeed and very, very worrying. :( We would be absolutely devastated if we lost our Bramble and he's only two! 😭😭😭

Update: He's just eaten a couple of small dandelion leaves we picked for him, but he's eating slower than usual and it seems to be almost painful as he gets a bit fluffy while eating them too and almost closes his eyes. 😕
 
I’m sorry to hear this. It’s always tricky when it is non-specific signs but you know him best and can pick up on changes of behaviour sometimes before symptoms.

In this kind of situation, our advice is to switch to daily weight checks, monitor and step in with syringe feeding if weight is lost, and book a vet appointment in a few days if he doesn’t pick up (as an emergency if he worsens).

I hope he is ok
 
He's a very chunky pig (weighs about 1600grms!), so it will take a while for him to lose weight. He's also eaten a bit of grass I've just picked as well, but very slowly and he's just not himself at all. But at least he's eaten some grass, quite a bit actually.....So, for now anyway, at least he's not at risk of going into gut stasis! 🙏

Just feel so sick like I always do when one of them gets ill, because every single time one of our pigs has got ill they've never got better, they've always died, and if Bramble dies, we don't know what we'll do. 😞 :( :( His 2nd birthday is coming up soon too, the day before mine! 😭

Bramble is the little cutie, on the left of my avatar, with his brother Bracken, who sadly died of some kind of heart condition at just six months old. :(
 
Storm1974 said:
He's a very chunky pig (weighs about 1600grms!), so it will take a while for him to lose weight. He's also eaten a bit of grass I've just picked as well, but very slowly and he's just not himself at all. But at least he's eaten some grass, quite a bit actually.....So, for now anyway, at least he's not at risk of going into gut stasis! 🙏

Just feel so sick like I always do when one of them gets ill, because every single time one of our pigs has got ill they've never got better, they've always died, and if Bramble dies, we don't know what we'll do. 😞 :( :( His 2nd birthday is coming up soon too, the day before mine! 😭

Bramble is the little cutie, on the left of my avatar, with his brother Bracken, who sadly died of some kind of heart condition at just six months old. :(
Click to expand...

Hi

HUGS

I am very sorry. It is always very worrying when you don't know what is going on.

Please step in with syringe feed. Keep in mind that over three quarters of what a piggy eats in a day is hay/fresh grass. Nibbling on a little green can be very deceptive. Crucial is not so much the weight loss but keeping the gut going as much as possible.
Relevant weight loss can also vary a lot - a chunky piggy will loose a lot of their fat initially very quickly whereas a piggy on the small side can afford to lose significantly less of their body (musle) mass.
Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support

Fingers very firmly crossed. Please contact a vet promptly if he loses his appetite altogether and refuses any syringe support feed.
How to Improvise Feeding Support in an Emergency

My thoughts are with you.
 
Wiebke said:
Hi

HUGS

I am very sorry. It is always very worrying when you don't know what is going on.

Please step in with syringe feed. Keep in mind that over three quarters of what a piggy eats in a day is hay/fresh grass. Nibbling on a little green can be very deceptive. Crucial is not so much the weight loss but keeping the gut going as much as possible.
Relevant weight loss can also vary a lot - a chunky piggy will loose a lot of their fat initially very quickly whereas a piggy on the small side can afford to lose significantly less of their body (musle) mass.
Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support

Fingers very firmly crossed. Please contact a vet promptly if he loses his appetite altogether and refuses any syringe support feed.
How to Improvise Feeding Support in an Emergency

My thoughts are with you.
Click to expand...
Thank you. 😞
 
We've also noticed that there aren't the usual amount of poos in the cage, I suppose that's because he hasn't been eating much. My other half found one (though there could be some more in his hay tray) and it was sort of tear shaped, but not dry.

Is this any good to buy him? We would have to add some mushed up pellets to it for Vitamin C etc..
Vetark CCF Glucose Energy Supplement Small & Exotic Pets | Pets
 
Storm1974 said:
We've also noticed that there aren't the usual amount of poos in the cage, I suppose that's because he hasn't been eating much. My other half found one (though there could be some more in his hay tray) and it was sort of tear shaped, but not dry.

Is this any good to buy him? We would have to add some mushed up pellets to it for Vitamin C etc..
Vetark CCF Glucose Energy Supplement Small & Exotic Pets | Pets
Click to expand...


Lack of poop is lack of hay intake hence why syringe feeding is so important. Poop output is 1-2 days behind food intake so he may not have been eating quite enough for a little longer than you think.

I’d not use that personally - it looks to just be sugars. I would just syringe feed and if needed add a probiotic
 
A few weeks ago my Master Boris was subdued and not being himself too. He didn't lose any weight, he actually gained despitehispoo being tiny. Possibly because he wasn't racing around at breakneck speed all day using all his calories!
I took him to the vet for a check up. Nothing obvious was found but my vet is very experienced with guineas and gave me some dog metacam for him. He had this and support feed for a week or so and he's now much more himself. In his case it's likely mild satin syndrome but having the vet check him over was extremely reassuring to me.
 
fluffysal said:
A few weeks ago my Master Boris was subdued and not being himself too. He didn't lose any weight, he actually gained despitehispoo being tiny. Possibly because he wasn't racing around at breakneck speed all day using all his calories!
I took him to the vet for a check up. Nothing obvious was found but my vet is very experienced with guineas and gave me some dog metacam for him. He had this and support feed for a week or so and he's now much more himself. In his case it's likely mild satin syndrome but having the vet check him over was extremely reassuring to me.
Click to expand...
Yes we will take him tomorrow. The cost is going to be a big issue with the way things are for us at the moment, but we have to do it.

We are finding a big issue feeding him. Last night he ate quite a bit of different things, but this morning his pellets weren't touched, neither was the grass or cucumber I put in for him. He NEVER drinks out of his water bottle, so that wasn't touched either!

This morning I tried him with more wet grass and his favourite dandelions, but he wasn't too interested though he has eaten a bit of apple and a small amount of cucumber now. I worry that he's not going to get enough nutrients, because I know dandelions are full of them, but he seems to have gone off them since last night! The pellets are obviously a good form of nutrients, but he's barely touching them. We did try syringing him yesterday with a good amount of watered down (mixed into a paste) pellets, but all we could manage to suck up was mainly water, which happens most of the time. Really need to source some 'decent' Critical Care from somewhere?

He is a quite a bit brighter now, but we're still worried until he's back to his usual self. I know the vet's going to tell us off saying that he's overweight tomorrow, because he weighs around 1600 gms and is very 'chunky'!
 
Storm1974 said:
Yes we will take him tomorrow. The cost is going to be a big issue with the way things are for us at the moment, but we have to do it.

We are finding a big issue feeding him. Last night he ate quite a bit of different things, but this morning his pellets weren't touched, neither was the grass or cucumber I put in for him. He NEVER drinks out of his water bottle, so that wasn't touched either!

This morning I tried him with more wet grass and his favourite dandelions, but he wasn't too interested though he has eaten a bit of apple and a small amount of cucumber now. I worry that he's not going to get enough nutrients, because I know dandelions are full of them, but he seems to have gone off them since last night! The pellets are obviously a good form of nutrients, but he's barely touching them. We did try syringing him yesterday with a good amount of watered down (mixed into a paste) pellets, but all we could manage to suck up was mainly water, which happens most of the time. Really need to source some 'decent' Critical Care from somewhere?
Click to expand...

Have you cut the tapered end off the syringe?
Syringe feeds, particularly mushed pellets, won’t go through with the end still in tact.
 
You have to play around with the consistency of the mixture - enough water so the pellets mush up but not so much that the syringe just sucks the water in

Actual oxbow critical care or other recovery feeds contain all the nutrients they need while they arent eating for themselves .
Pellets are fortified with the the nutrients too but the fibre content is lower
 
Thank you, he's booked in today at 12. We think it's actually a teeth/mouth problem now. The other day while he was eating corriander (his fave!) he suddenly acted like he had some of it stuck in his mouth for a good few seconds, but we thought he had got rid of it because he was fine afterwards, but although he has started eating again, he has been taking longer than usual, will barely touch his pellets, won't touch corriander and is sometimes using his front foot to hold down a piece of food, plus is moving his head a bit more exaggerately when he's eating, as if he's having trouble. We did have a look in his mouth but couldn't really see anything untoward, though maybe he has a bit of food stuck in his back teeth which we can't see.

He's actually pretty normal again though now thank goodness, apart from the slow/difficult eating, so that's a relief at least that he's eating (what he can) and active again!
 
Storm1974 said:
Thank you, he's booked in today at 12. We think it's actually a teeth/mouth problem now. The other day while he was eating corriander (his fave!) he suddenly acted like he had some of it stuck in his mouth for a good few seconds, but we thought he had got rid of it because he was fine afterwards, but although he has started eating again, he has been taking longer than usual, will barely touch his pellets, won't touch corriander and is sometimes using his front foot to hold down a piece of food, plus is moving his head a bit more exaggerately when he's eating, as if he's having trouble. We did have a look in his mouth but couldn't really see anything untoward, though maybe he has a bit of food stuck in his back teeth which we can't see.

He's actually pretty normal again though now thank goodness, apart from the slow/difficult eating, so that's a relief at least that he's eating (what he can) and active again!
Click to expand...

All the best. I hope that your vet can find what is wrong and address it. It is always good to have the mouth checked, just in case.
 
So, when we took Bramble to the vet at 12 today, he had a really good look in Brambles' mouth, and even took him off into another room to ask a colleague to look properly, but they couldn't really find anything wrong. He said he couldn't see in the molars properly though incase there were any spurs on them, but would have to sedate him to do that. So we have the choice to take him back in a couple of days if the Metacam he gave us for the pain didn't seem to make Bramble start eating properly again (which it hasn't really seemed to at all). It's been such a worry today, we weighed him just before we went to the vets and he had lost 160grms since last Thursday when we weighed him! :(

We are 'trying' to syringe feed him as he's still not eating anything much, but it's so difficult and stressful because firstly he races around the cage to try and get away from us, so he's already stressed and then when we try to feed him, he's constantly fighting us and then getting all respiratory noises from the stress! I really don't think he is taking in that much (enough) either because and it's making me so mad and frustrated because this is exactly what happened with Bracken (his brother) and our last Guinea Pig who died, Herbert, and I think the same's going to happen with our beautiful, much loved Bramble now too! 😭😭😭

Having Guinea Pigs wasn't ever meant to be this stressful and upsetting, and if Bramble goes, that will be three (very young pigs) within 2 years and Bramble is so special to us, he's even got his second birthday coming up the day before mine, which we were looking forward to celebrating! 😞

Really don't know what to do!:(:( He is eating tiny bits of grass and hay, but it's just not enough, even with the 'stressful' syringe feeding we are doing!

So, do we make another visit with the vet and run the risk of him being under anaesthetic to have his back teeth checked, when it could be nothing to do with his teeth?

Just want him to be eating normally again! He's not touching any cucumber for water either, and doesn't drink out of a bowl/water bottle. I have been wetting down the grass I have been putting in for him, but he's not really eating that much of it.
 
Hi I am so sorry you are going through this please try to take a minute to process everything as you don't want to stress Bramble out. Are you weighing every morning at the same time?
 
I’m sorry to hear this.

Do you try and herd him into a box to pick him up?
For difficult piggies, I put a carrier in a corner and then create a wall with hides leading up to the box so they have no choice but to walk into the carrier.
 
He's now just eaten the middle bit of a pepper with all the seeds on it, and thoroughly enjoyed it!
He's also eaten some broccoli, the bit with the head on as it's easier to eat.

I remember the vet also said that Brambles front teeth were slightly out of alignment.

I've given him so yarrow too which he enjoyed and was easy to eat, so it's definitely his teeth that is the problem!
 
So Bramble has been two days on the Metacam and he's eating a lot better today (He's eaten quite a lot of grass, is eating hay and some veggies) and is much more active and bright eyed! 🥰 🙏 He's obviously still not eating perfectly though, so we will be weighing him in the morning to see if he's put on any weight and we will also keep giving him some syringes of food a day, even though he hates it! We didn't weigh him this morning because we thought that it's obvious he would probably have not put much more weight on/off overnight, so thought we'd do it tomorrow instead, hope that wasn't bad of us? 😕

Tomorrow though, the vet, who we saw on Monday, is going to be back in and he said to give them a call if we wanted to go ahead and book Bramble in for a dental check. So, firstly we are wondering how much this kind of thing normally costs (roughly, because we know it varies from vet to vet) and secondly (and most importantly!) we are worried about Bramble having to be put under anaesthetic because of the risk. 😟 Obviously if it means he's going to have a bad quality of life and things are going to get worse, if we leave it we would do it. But if he's eating grass, hay and some veggies (though not as quickly or much as usual!), then could it possibly be ok to leave the surgery for now, at least? Or could it be that the Metacam is just taking the pain away a bit so he can eat less painfully? It was 1pm today he had his second dose, so wouldn't that have worn off a bit by now, or does it last 24 hours?

I know none of you really know the answer to my questions, but do we need to rush and book Bramble in tomorrow do you think, or could we leave it a couple more days and then make a decision, as long as he's still eating 'some' food like grass/hay?

Just really worry about him going under and not coming through it, or the recovery. 😢

He's so active and happy at the moment, just feasting on his hay again after a big syringe full of pellets mixed with water.
:):)
 
Do make sure you weigh him every morning while he is unwell. It’s the only way to know you have given enough syringe feed/enough independent eating each day.

If there is a dental issue then they usually don’t just get better on their own so at some point, if there is an issue, he is going to need to have it investigated. And potentially the longer it (or any medical issue) is left, the harder they are to deal with. While you don’t necessarily need to make a decision that moment, Your vet will be best to guide based on their clinical assessment of the situation.

Piggies usually need their pain meds twice a day - they metabolise in around 12 hours. It does build up in the system though - it just depends what his dosage is and whether it’s cat or dog metacam (dog being stronger). Unfortunately we see low doses of cat version prescribed now it’s licensed and often they don’t do much for piggies with their fast metabolism.

I hope he is ok
 
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