Specialist Straining to poop and wrong answers from vets!

[Pacopig9818]

Hi all,

I am copying and pasting an email sent to a guinea pig rescue asking for advice and I’m posting it here too to ask for help!

“My guinea pig, Paco, is a 2 year old male. All summer long, Paco has been straining to poop. He arches his back and whines and it is clear that he is in pain when it happens. No sign of blood in urine and it seems to happen when it’s the poops he wants to eat only!

Fast forward to Labor Day weekend. Friday, we took him to his regular vet (not an exotic vet, but a big fan of guinea pigs and has two himself.) He did an ultrasound and found no signs of stones or sludge in his bladder and also said his GI tract looked normal. However, he stated that “the bladder wall looks a little bright, which tells me it might be the start of an infection” and he prescribes Baytril, which I’ve heard bad things about.

Paco received three doses of Baytril (at the correct times and doses) and things went way downhill. By Labor Day, I could tell he was in such pain. He was puffed up and wasn’t eating or pooping. I took him to the 24/7 emergency vet and she took an X-ray. Which showed Paco in complete GI stasis. They pushed fluids into him as well as Reglan and gave me pain medication and Reglan to take home. It took Paco a full week to recover. We had to administer meds and feed critical care around the clock to keep him alive.

I do not believe the straining was due to GI stasis because he has been straining all summer and I’m sure this would have been an emergency sooner. I believe Baytril was the cause of this.

I’m happy to say he’s doing much better however he is still experiencing that same pain when pooping before this all happened. And again, it’s only for the poop he wants to eat. I’m having a hard time trusting vets and was hoping that maybe your team has seen something like this before and you can point me in the right direction of what I should do.

Thank you!”

My biggest concern is that he is having a hard time pooping. He is not impacted. I’ve checked multiple times and have stuck a q tip up there and found nothing but smelly stuff. So no bladder stones, no infection, he’s not in GI stasis anymore, not impacted, so then WHAT?

 

[Wiebke]

Hi and welcome

I am very sorry. It can be very difficult to work out what is wrong when all the usual avenues have been eliminated but the cause of the problem has still not been found.

GI stasis is generally not associated with straining; nor is bloating.
But a full-blown GI stasis takes time to bounce back from as I know my own brushes with it!
Bloat, GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) And Not Eating

In most cases straining is related to problems in the urinary tract. But that and impaction have obviously been excluded. He is too young for arthritis pain to transmit. Have your vets checked for sterile interstitial cystitis? It is a condition that has become much more common in especially indoors guinea pigs over the last decade. The 'sterile' bit means that it is not bacterial and doesn't react to antibiotics.
Unfortunately, it can only be diagnosed by default and is not curable, but the symptoms can be managed mainly with glucosamine and analgesics until it goes away on its own eventually; but that is more of a matter of years than months.
Links - Interstitial Cystitis - Guinea Lynx Records

Has Paco been checked for a semen rod or a hardened build up of smegma in his penis shaft?
Boar Care: Bits, Bums & Baths

I am linking @Abi_nurse for you. Perhaps she can help you with other avenues to pursue.

As you mention Labor Day, I assume that you are US based? It would help us if you please added your country to your details so we can always take the different medical brands etc into account straight away when giving advice. Although we have lots of members and enquiries from all over the world, our default advice is UK based.

 

[Lady Kelly]

Firstly I will add that I don't believe baytril has caused this. It is the only licenced antibiotic for guinea pigs and is perfectly safe to use. It can be harsh on the gut so probiotics are recommended and obviously no one comes online to post stories about how they were prescribed baytril and it had no side effects - you generally only get the bad cases mentioned. I have given baytril numerous times without probiotics and my piggies have never had ill effects from it.

I think further tests need to be carried out. Have you noticed his wee smelling stronger? It could be that an antibiotic that's better for dealing with uti's such as sulfatrim would be better for him. Also it might be worth checking his spine etc on the x-ray for arthritis though he seems young for this. Usually problems pooping will be more urinary tract based than gut based, if it were gi stasis I would expect fewer but not necessarily difficulty passing them

 

[DMS260820]

My sow strains to poo sometimes, and she has intertestial cystitis

 

[Pacopig9818]

Hi and welcome

I am very sorry. It can be very difficult to work out what is wrong when all the usual avenues have been eliminated but the cause of the problem has still not been found.

GI stasis is generally not associated with straining; nor is bloating.
But a full-blown GI stasis takes time to bounce back from as I know my own brushes with it!
Bloat, GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) And Not Eating

In most cases straining is related to problems in the urinary tract. But that and impaction have obviously been excluded. He is too young for arthritis pain to transmit. Have your vets checked for sterile interstitial cystitis? It is a condition that has become much more common in especially indoors guinea pigs over the last decade. The 'sterile' bit means that it is not bacterial and doesn't react to antibiotics.
Unfortunately, it can only be diagnosed by default and is not curable, but the symptoms can be managed mainly with glucosamine and analgesics until it goes away on its own eventually; but that is more of a matter of years than months.
Links - Interstitial Cystitis - Guinea Lynx Records

Has Paco been checked for a semen rod or a hardened build up of smegma in his penis shaft?
Boar Care: Bits, Bums & Baths

I am linking @Abi_nurse for you. Perhaps she can help you with other avenues to pursue.

As you mention Labor Day, I assume that you are US based? It would help us if you please added your country to your details so we can always take the different medical brands etc into account straight away when giving advice. Although we have lots of members and enquiries from all over the world, our default advice is UK based.

The only thing I haven’t checked was the shaft and I was hoping it wasn’t related. After a big struggle I did see that there was hardened white stuff on the shaft and I wonder if that is the culprit. It was clear that it is painful when I was trying to pick it off. Would this pain happen when he’s pooping?because I’ve never heard him in pain when he urinates. It doesn’t make sense [/QUOTE]

 

[Wiebke]

The only thing I haven’t checked was the shaft and I was hoping it wasn’t related. After a big struggle I did see that there was hardened white stuff on the shaft and I wonder if that is the culprit. It was clear that it is painful when I was trying to pick it off. Would this pain happen when he’s pooping?because I’ve never heard him in pain when he urinates. It doesn’t make sense

[/QUOTE]

Straining is usually connected to a pain problem that is spreading into the gut/lower body. It is rarely located in the gut itself.

Have your vets checked for sterile interstitial cystitis (more commonly known as IC; see my first post)?

 

[Pacopig9818]

Straining is usually connected to a pain problem that is spreading into the gut/lower body. It is rarely located in the gut itself.

Have your vets checked for sterile interstitial cystitis (more commonly known as IC; see my first post)?
[/QUOTE]

No, the only thing he did was put an ultrasound up to his belly and check for stones and sludge. I’ve never heard the term IC from him. I just read a couple of things about IC and I’m reading a lot of cases that have blood. I’ve never seen blood in his cage or anything. I’ve even had him pee a few times on a paper towel to look for red color. The only thing I see is a cloudy, whiteish urine. But he’s had this type of urine ever since I’ve had him. I even took him to the vet for this reason over a year ago and he said it’s normal.

 

[Wiebke]

Straining is usually connected to a pain problem that is spreading into the gut/lower body. It is rarely located in the gut itself.

Have your vets checked for sterile interstitial cystitis (more commonly known as IC; see my first post)?

No, the only thing he did was put an ultrasound up to his belly and check for stones and sludge. I’ve never heard the term IC from him. I just read a couple of things about IC and I’m reading a lot of cases that have blood. I’ve never seen blood in his cage or anything. I’ve even had him pee a few times on a paper towel to look for red color. The only thing I see is a cloudy, whiteish urine. But he’s had this type of urine ever since I’ve had him. I even took him to the vet for this reason over a year ago and he said it’s normal.
[/QUOTE]

Intensely red porphyrine coloured pees are common for the onset of a cystitis, but as several of my own IC piggies have shown/are showing, symptoms can vary. Red pees (which actually may or may not contain blood) do not necessarily have to present. Seemingly clear urine can test very high on blood while intensely red pees can test free of it. Believe me, I have the corresponding t-shirts!

Since you are running out of options, it would be at least worth to raise this issue with your vets. It is a relatively new issue that has come to the fore in recent years and is not all that well known yet outside vets that see a lot of piggies on a regular basis.
If it is sterile IC, glucosamine (1 capsule of cat bladder food supplement dissolved in 1-2 ml water daily) and a higher dosage of dog metacam should make a difference in how your boy is feeling pretty soon. Treatment is generally similar to that of cats with sterile cystitis (they are the other species with this particular problem). Very recent research seems to be confirming the importance of glucosamine.

 

[DMS260820]

What wiebke is saying about intertestial cystitis is making alot of sense, my sow is the same with the straining to poo. She has had an op for something not related ( uterine tumour) quite recently, and no other problems were found that could be causing the pain on a scan or x ray.

My sows straining seems to come in flare ups and then she's fine for months, and then comes back again. She lives fine like it, it's pretty mild though.

I will be keeping a close eye on this thread, I'm in the same boat

 

[Pacopig9818]

Thanks for the advice. My plan is to take him to a new vet. One who is an exotic vet. Thankfully there’s one in my area. I’ll definitely bring up the IC conversation. I just find it so interesting that it’s specifically the poops he wants to eat and not the ones he leaves in the cage. Any idea how a vet will know this is IC for sure?

 

[DMS260820]

Thanks for the advice. My plan is to take him to a new vet. One who is an exotic vet. Thankfully there’s one in my area. I’ll definitely bring up the IC conversation. I just find it so interesting that it’s specifically the poops he wants to eat and not the ones he leaves in the cage. Any idea how a vet will know this is IC for sure?

Same with my pig, she eats the ones she strains to do

 

[Claire W]

Thanks for the advice. My plan is to take him to a new vet. One who is an exotic vet. Thankfully there’s one in my area. I’ll definitely bring up the IC conversation. I just find it so interesting that it’s specifically the poops he wants to eat and not the ones he leaves in the cage. Any idea how a vet will know this is IC for sure?

To test for IC you need eliminate everything else which your vet has done. Only then will IC be diagnosed. I’ve had two piggies with it now

 

[DMS260820]

To test for IC you need eliminate everything else which your vet has done. Only then will IC be diagnosed. I’ve had two piggies with it now

Do any of yours strain to poo?

 

[Claire W]

Do any of yours strain to poo?

Ellen does sometimes but *touch wood* she hasn’t had a flare for a few months so I’m really hoping she’s over it

 

[DMS260820]

Ellen does sometimes but *touch wood* she hasn’t had a flare for a few months so I’m really hoping she’s over it

Sorry but that's brilliant, it must be why dot is straining. That's 3 of us with pigs doing this. And Dot has had 2 scans showing nothing wrong elsewhere ( for her uterine tumour in May) the straining had been going on before this, I thought it was the tumour ding something, but wasn't, because after the removal, she was still straining

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks for the advice. My plan is to take him to a new vet. One who is an exotic vet. Thankfully there’s one in my area. I’ll definitely bring up the IC conversation. I just find it so interesting that it’s specifically the poops he wants to eat and not the ones he leaves in the cage. Any idea how a vet will know this is IC for sure?

Here is a link for recommended vets in your state: Veterinarians: Maine - Guinea Lynx Records

All the best for getting to the bottom of this!

 

[Swissgreys]

Thanks for the advice. My plan is to take him to a new vet. One who is an exotic vet. Thankfully there’s one in my area. I’ll definitely bring up the IC conversation. I just find it so interesting that it’s specifically the poops he wants to eat and not the ones he leaves in the cage. Any idea how a vet will know this is IC for sure?

I also have a pig with IC and the problem I believe is that it is extremely difficult to offer a conclusive diagnosis.
It also seems that every pig presents with slightly different symptoms.
However after lot of tests (all of which came back negative or inconclusive) I raised the possibility of IC with my vet.
We stopped all other treatments, and put Lucy on Metacam 2 x daily, and a capsule of cat glucosamine (Cystease) 1 daily for a month.
We also cut her diet back ot he absolute basics for 7 days (meaning hay and a small amount of grain free pellets daily - that's it).
After a week of the basic diet she was much better and showing no signs of pain, so I introduced one vegetable every 3 days (I started with pepper on day one then pepper and cucumber on day 4, etc).
I kept an extensive food diary.
After 14 days she was eating hay, pellets and 3 vegetables without problem, so we starred to reduce the Metacam.
By the end of the month, we had stopped the Metacam altogether, and come up with a list of food that she could tolerate, and also worked out what a couple of her 'triggers' were.

She stayed on the daily glucosamine for 3 months and it definitely helped her a lot.
These days as soon as she seems ot be having a flare or showing signs of pain she goes back onto a 30 - 45 day course of daily glucosamine. I also add some Metacam for a couple of days if she really seems ot be in pain.

All of this was what made the vet agree that she has IC, and we now have a decent treatment plan to work with going forward.

 

[Pacopig9818]

Thank you all, I haven’t noticed Paco straining as much since I’ve cleaned the shaft. But I really does sound like it could be IC. I’ll keep an eye on him and report back with any changes. Thanks!

 

[Abi_nurse]

Hey there. Has your little one had an X-ray at all? I understand your vet scanned the bladder but stones can get stuck in all areas of the urinary tract and it would be ideal to look at them all on an X-ray under a light anaesthetic. He could have little stones in his urethra or ureters which are causing discomfort. Has his urine been tested on a dipstick and under the microscope for blood as you can't always see it discolouring the urine.

I suspect the baytril just reduced his appetite and this is why he stopped eating and got gut stasis. Glad to hear he is a little better.

x

 

[Pacopig9818]

The only X-ray he had done was the one that confirmed the stasis. I’m attaching it just so you can see that. I’m not sure if you can see stones from the angle it was taken. I will say though he seems much better after I cleaned the shaft and I haven’t seen him straining but, of course, I’m not sure what happens while I’m at work and sleeping.

 

[Pacopig9818]

Also, he has not had any urine tests done yet

 

[aleks_gs]

Hello,

I was wondering if there was any more information about this guinea pig, and if the cause of the problem was found?


I have a female guinea pig, age 1 year 10 months with pretty much the same symptoms and no clue what's going on. She started making noises when pooping the edible poop, she's straining, and in some pain. It can happen from 0 to a few times a day. What I've noticed is that she will make the noise, strain, and let out a few edible poops in a short succession.

Other than that, she's absolutely fine; loves her food, zooms around and popcorns. Her weight is also stable.

We adopted a neutered boy back in July and this is about the sort of time when we noticed it happening.

She had the following done (and repeated too) and there were no problems found:

- X-ray
- Ultrasound
- Urine test

Our vet noticed that she has been a little sensitive when pressed on the hips, and that there could've been some trauma.
The guinea pig has been on pain medication, and at the beginning they were working very well, but now we are finding that they are not that effective.

We have tried Baytril, Probiotics, Loxicom, Emeprid, Gabapentin. And nothing really helped. We are currently on Loxicom and Gabapentin to manage the pain, but we are looking at referral to a specialist and possibly having a CT scan done to see if we can find anything.

 

[Wiebke]

Hello,

I was wondering if there was any more information about this guinea pig, and if the cause of the problem was found?


I have a female guinea pig, age 1 year 10 months with pretty much the same symptoms and no clue what's going on. She started making noises when pooping the edible poop, she's straining, and in some pain. It can happen from 0 to a few times a day. What I've noticed is that she will make the noise, strain, and let out a few edible poops in a short succession.

Other than that, she's absolutely fine; loves her food, zooms around and popcorns. Her weight is also stable.

We adopted a neutered boy back in July and this is about the sort of time when we noticed it happening.

She had the following done (and repeated too) and there were no problems found:

- X-ray
- Ultrasound
- Urine test

Our vet noticed that she has been a little sensitive when pressed on the hips, and that there could've been some trauma.
The guinea pig has been on pain medication, and at the beginning they were working very well, but now we are finding that they are not that effective.

We have tried Baytril, Probiotics, Loxicom, Emeprid, Gabapentin. And nothing really helped. We are currently on Loxicom and Gabapentin to manage the pain, but we are looking at referral to a specialist and possibly having a CT scan done to see if we can find anything.

I am very sorry but without you identifying the source of your quote to allow us to check (or for you to check) whether there is any follow up on this when you search for other posts by the person who wrote this (via the seach button by the top bar), we can simply not comment.

Please accept that we get several thousand enquiries in our health/illness section alone every year not to mention the rest of the forum), the majority of which we never hear back on. Expecting us to remember every single outcome days, weeks, months or even years down the line even in those cases we get an update is rather beyond our capacity. We are a bit too busy for that - considering that we are all doing this for free in our own free time on top of a job (all mods are working), our own piggies and a private life with its own demands. We see several threads on urinary tract issues every months as this is one of the more common problems.

There is a condition called sterile (i.e. non-bacterial) interstitial cystitis; it is similar to feline sterile cystitis in cats but is not widely known in vet circles that do not see lots of piggies as it has become more widespread only over the last decade. Treatment in guinea pigs follows that of cats' with glucosamine and painkillers being used for the management of it.
Links - Interstitial Cystitis - Guinea Lynx Records

Otherwise, anything pressing on the gut or any pain radiating into the gut can cause pain when peeing and pooing. It is generally not a problem in the gut itself but the surrounding areas, especially of the urinary and reproductive tracts including sperm rods in boars and ovarian cysts in sows) or arthritis in the lower spine etc.

 

[aleks_gs]

Source of what quote? I am sorry, but all I am asking is for the TC (I can see from their history that they were active on the site up to Oct this year) to let us know if they had any further developments here; this is just a normal reply on an existing thread, not specifically towards the moderation team.

 

[Wiebke]

Source of what quote? I am sorry, but all I am asking is for the TC (I can see from their history that they were active on the site up to Oct this year) to let us know if they had any further developments here; this is just a normal reply on an existing thread, not specifically towards the moderation team.

I am very sorry but there is no update and the thread is 3 months old.

We generally ask our members to not dig out any old threads and rather ask any questions on a thread of their own or their current support thread in order to avoid confusion.