Stopping Baytril for URI due to gut problems?

[squonk/squeegee]

Squeegee's brother, Squonk, passed away early Monday morning (8/29) from pneumonia and I took Squeegee to Squonk's appointment at my vet as I had started to hear popping and wheezing noises from his nose. The vet didn't see anything in his lungs and said if it got worse to call the vet to prescribe him some antibiotic. Once I got home I started to notice that he was huffing air from his nose and expelling clear discharge, so I called the vet the next day and said I could give him doxycycline - antibiotics I had previously gotten for Squonk. His symptoms improved for one day but I noticed on the second day that the popping in his nose sounded louder. I called the vet Thursday (9/1) and was able to get him seen by a different vet that day. She prescribed him Baytril 2.27% and to give him 0.4 mL every 24 hours for the next 10 days, and Meloxicam 1.5 mg/ml and to give him 0.3 mL every 24 hours for 4 days. I also mentioned to her that he was not eating his Oxbow vitamin C tablet (he's a picky eater so sometimes he just doesn't want to eat it), and she said to give him some fruits until my vitamin C drops arrived. I started him on the Baytril on Thursday and gave him Bene-Bac about 2 hours after the antibiotic. I continued feeding him his regular veggies (green leaf lettuce and bell pepper) along with a little bit of mandarin orange(like the tip off of a slice). I had been previously giving him a little bit of apple earlier this week but after the orange he didn't want to eat it. Also, he gets pellets too but after his brother's death, he seems to show little interest in them. On Friday I gave him a piece of lettuce during the day and I am pretty sure that I had saw him eat hay too. To be on the safe side, I started giving him some critical care that evening as well because he wants to be in his house more and his poops were looking small. However, that night when I tried giving him his bell pepper, he was not interested in it (he had slowed down eating it over the past few days but would still eat the majority of it). I also noticed that he was puffed up and looked uncomfortable. As I was monitoring him, I saw him kind of chasing his butt around - kind of like he was trying to pull his poops from his butt. When he was on Baytril before for a suspected UTI (it ended up not being one but bladder stones) he had done a similar thing with Squonk, where he would constantly chase Squonk around the cage even when he hadn't pooped yet. If I remember from yesterday, I also saw him trying to eat his poop more frequently earlier as well. I thought he was beginning to have bloat, his stomach was making loud noises but it wasn't hard. From there, I syringe fed him water - which he wanted to drink - and some critical care - which he willingly ate as well. I also massaged his belly and gave him a heating pad for a brief moment. After feeding him, I placed him back in his cage and made him move around for about 10 minutes, he also ate hay during this exercise. I don't know if how much water he has been drinking but I've seen him place his mouth on the spout briefly. Have also been wetting his veggies and syringe feeding him water as well. However, after this incident, I have stopped giving him veggies. I noticed that he was laying down again and was not puffed up anymore after this incident as well. This morning when I picked him up to give him critical care, I noticed that there were no new poops in his cage but I think he may have been eating them throughout the night since I saw him chasing his butt. I also found one still in his butt after I set him down in my lap (a bit dry and lighter in color at the tip but more hydrated and darker for the rest of it). He also didn't want to eat this one. After the critical care, I put him back in his cage and made him move around while he occasionally ate hay and put his mouth briefly on the spout of his water bottles. I am now noticing that if I can get him to move, he will eat his hay and not mope around.
I called the vet this morning and unfortunately I can't get him into a vet until next Friday and it is hard to get him into the emergency vet as there isn't a lot of exotic vets in my area - especially with a focus in guinea pigs. Since it's also the only emergency vet around, they don't really accept the animal unless it is life threatening. After calling around, one vet did mention stopping the Baytril until I can get to be seen again by a vet as that is what's probably causing his gut problems. However, since my appointment is next Friday, I worry that stopping the antibiotic for that long could cause adverse reactions to the antibiotic if I needed to use it again and that his URI could get much worse. It seems to be improving - no more popping or wheezing. He still huffs but that could be his annoyance with me, and it doesn't really sound wet anymore. Should I stop using the Baytril or should I try to continue and stop if it gets worse? Can I increase his Bene-Bac to 2-3 times a day instead of just once after the antibiotic? How much water should I be syringe feeding him and how often? I am really worried. Also, his weight has been fairly consistent since Thursday - even gained some weight since yesterday when I fed him critical care. I plan on feeding him critical care 5-6 times a day and 1 tsp per meal. Thank you!

 

[Siikibam]

I’m sorry your boy is unwell. I would try and move the appointment forward given his deterioration. Perhaps ask them to contact you if there’s a cancellation.

I also wouldn’t stop the baytril unless the vet who prescribed has told you to stop. Baytril can kill the good guy bacteria and cause loss of appetite. It is widely used and, as far as I remember, I haven’t heard of any piggy reacting badly to it.

Poo output is 1-2 days behind so isn’t a good indicator of how much hay he’s eating. Hay is the most important part of the diet, rather than veg or anything else.

I would suggest you switch to weighing him once daily (in the morning) and adjust the topup feeds accordingly. At the moment you can aim for 40-60ml in a 24 hour period. For example, you could start feeds at 6-7am and do the last feed at 11pm. I would offer him as much as he can eat every 2 hours. You are aiming to help him maintain his weight. It’s good if he’s been generally steady though.

Hope you can get him seen sooner than next Friday.

I would stop the slivers of orange. Citric fruits are acidic and can cause mouth sores. You also don’t want to be giving him fruit daily as it’s high in sugar. Lastly, unless they’re ill, they don’t need regular vitamin c. Their pellets are fortified with it, hay (and fresh grass) contains vitamin c. And pepper and cilantro are good sources of vitamin c. When you give a supplement on top of this, you get their body used to a certain level. Once that level drops (even if within ‘normal’ range), they can then develop symptoms of scurvy.

Once he’s better, you’d be better off weaning him off it slowly so he’s back to no supplements.

Hope he feels better soon.

 

[squonk/squeegee]

Thank you. The vet appointment I made was urgent care so I worry about finding another appointment before then - not many vets here are comfortable with exotic pets like guinea pigs. After checking on him I found 7 fairly normal poops in his house - some kinda skinny and a couple smaller ones. It's been about 2-3 hours since I last checked on him. I have put hay in his house so that he can eat if he doesn't want to leave, but I will still encourage him to move around more. I think part of this is due to grieving over his brother. I will stop feeding him fruit and encourage him eating more pepper as well - he is already so picky lol. He doesn't want his Oxbow supplement so should I crush it and add it to the critical care? Can I increase the Bene-Bac to 2-3 times a day? And how much water should I be giving him via syringe - he seems to like to get water that way.

 

[Siikibam]

I’m not sure how much water you can syringe. You can try wetting his veg as well. Remember they will drink as much as they need to. Some of their water intake does come from veg.

As said, weight will be the best indicator as poo output is 1-2 days behind. So the poo you see is what he ate 1-2 days ago. Small ones indicate not much eating of hay.

And for the benebac, not sure again. Perhaps read the guide below and see if it’s mentioned. Is there any reason the vet prescribed the baytril once rather than twice daily?

They can really grieve. It could be part of it or it could be his illness making him lethargic/generally out of sorts. Or a mix of both.
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

 

[squonk/squeegee]

Thank you, I have been weighing him and will continue to do so. I'm not sure why she did prescribe it this way, she didn't suspend the antibiotic and it is just the pure liquid without flavor.

 

[Princess Dustmop]

I've had vets prescribe flavored suspensions and non-flavored (or at least without stated flavouring) for Baytril; it's likely whichever they keep in stock. It is still a suspension ... that's indicated by the 2.27% concentration. Baytril is the solid that is being suspended in ... well, I don't actually know what the liquid is; you shake the bottle first to assure any sedimentation is mixed back in and that you're giving drawing out the dosage. If it were a homogenous solution (like saline, where the salt dissolves into the water) it wouldn't require shaking, but Baytril is generally poorly soluble, so when compounded into a liquid, it is a heterogeneous mixture ... kind-of like chocolate chips in a muffin batter: they are distributed evenly when you stir, but will eventually sink if left to sit.

When a medication is tough on the system, splitting the dose can help mitigate the side effects. The flavor doesn't impact the side effects, just palatability ... apple suspension, or whatever flavor, can make it easier to give to the piggy, but if you're able to give the dose okay, I wouldn't worry too much about the unflavored suspension. You could call the vet and inquire about splitting the dose to two half doses 12 hours apart, though.


Have you tried different types of pepper? My girls prefer thin walled peppers, like the little snacking peppers, over thick-walled pepper, like bells; they also have color preferences (red is their favorite, then orange ... yellow not so much); one of my previous girls LOVED the purple bell pepper we grew one year (though no one else liked them).

 

[squonk/squeegee]

I've had vets prescribe flavored suspensions and non-flavored (or at least without stated flavouring) for Baytril; it's likely whichever they keep in stock. It is still a suspension ... that's indicated by the 2.27% concentration. Baytril is the solid that is being suspended in ... well, I don't actually know what the liquid is; you shake the bottle first to assure any sedimentation is mixed back in and that you're giving drawing out the dosage. If it were a homogenous solution (like saline, where the salt dissolves into the water) it wouldn't require shaking, but Baytril is generally poorly soluble, so when compounded into a liquid, it is a heterogeneous mixture ... kind-of like chocolate chips in a muffin batter: they are distributed evenly when you stir, but will eventually sink if left to sit.

When a medication is tough on the system, splitting the dose can help mitigate the side effects. The flavor doesn't impact the side effects, just palatability ... apple suspension, or whatever flavor, can make it easier to give to the piggy, but if you're able to give the dose okay, I wouldn't worry too much about the unflavored suspension. You could call the vet and inquire about splitting the dose to two half doses 12 hours apart, though.


Have you tried different types of pepper? My girls prefer thin walled peppers, like the little snacking peppers, over thick-walled pepper, like bells; they also have color preferences (red is their favorite, then orange ... yellow not so much); one of my previous girls LOVED the purple bell pepper we grew one year (though no one else liked them).

Sorry for the late reply. The vet I went to circulates between different vet clinics and after calling around I found out she won’t be at any of the clinics until Thursday. However, I will call around on Monday to see if I can have him seen by a different vet or have one agree with you suggestion - thank you!
I tried the orange sweet pepper but he seems to only like the green bell pepper. I will try the red sweet pepper tonight though. He also ate the majority of his bell pepper last night and has been eating his hay without me forcing him to. His weight has increased since yesterday and he’s maintaining his weight between feedings.

 

[Princess Dustmop]

Nothing wrong with green bell pepper; they have a bit less vitamin C than red or orange, but if that's the one he likes, green is still a good choice!