Sow trio bonding help

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Pompom.daisy

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Hiya! Looking for advice on bonding. I feel I probably screwed things up! I have two 6 months sows, decided to add a 3 month sow but bonding isn’t going well. Initially in a neutral space all seemed settled after a few hours I put them into a freshly cleaned cage (but still original hides etc). the more dominant sow chased the baby and then a fight broke out with the two older sows (baby hiding) I separated the older sows to calm down & put them into another neutral space over night, they were settled. I’ve tried bonding again today, in. 7x5ft shed floor with multiple hay piles, the one more dominant piggie has done a lot of chasing of the baby, but also has sat and groomed it, it’s been quite eventful with the older sows at each other, (no full on fight as of yet). The problem seems when the baby does start moving around (mostly just stays hiding under the hay terrified) the older sows go at each other. To me they both seem to be angling for the dominant spot. I know they will be sorting out dominance and it takes time, I’m trying to hold my nerve but very stressed! When do I call it a day? Currently the older two are sat quietly next to each other and baby the other side of the floor space. Is it possible to say if this is going to work out? I so wanted a little group of sows. If I do separate - who do I take out…do I remove baby and hope the older two can remain bonded (even though they did have a fight last night) or leave the dominant one with the baby seen as she has done a bit of grooming. Or take out the dominant one (and take to rescue to get bonded with a friend).
Just don’t know what to do for the best.
 
I can’t advise but have a look through the forum bonding guide.
It saved my sanity when I was bonding 2 pairs of sows.
Bonding can be very dramatic and very noisy.
One of the more knowledgeable members will be along later
 
Merab said:
I can’t advise but have a look through the forum bonding guide.
It saved my sanity when I was bonding 2 pairs of sows.
Bonding can be very dramatic and very noisy.
One of the more knowledgeable members will be along later
Click to expand...
Thank you! I aborted in the end. Reading the guides it just seemed the best thing. I tried one older sow with the baby but there was no interaction from baby and the older one nipped at her any time she moved, she got more withdrawn so I’ve called it. The older two are back together, so far no issues but I’ll be watching closely. It seemed to me, the older two couldn’t decide who was dominant, there was a constant clash and the baby sow getting more scared as time went on. She literally wasn’t moving an inch so no bonding was happening.
I’m going to take the baby to match with a gp friend (and have help with the bonding). I have space for two pairs so I’d rather not push it and stress them all out! (And myself!) I think the older two are possibly better as a pair, or just a bit too teenage and maybe once older I might contact a rescue about bonding a neutered male.
Thanks for your response ☺️
 
Pompom.daisy said:
Hiya! Looking for advice on bonding. I feel I probably screwed things up! I have two 6 months sows, decided to add a 3 month sow but bonding isn’t going well. Initially in a neutral space all seemed settled after a few hours I put them into a freshly cleaned cage (but still original hides etc). the more dominant sow chased the baby and then a fight broke out with the two older sows (baby hiding) I separated the older sows to calm down & put them into another neutral space over night, they were settled. I’ve tried bonding again today, in. 7x5ft shed floor with multiple hay piles, the one more dominant piggie has done a lot of chasing of the baby, but also has sat and groomed it, it’s been quite eventful with the older sows at each other, (no full on fight as of yet). The problem seems when the baby does start moving around (mostly just stays hiding under the hay terrified) the older sows go at each other. To me they both seem to be angling for the dominant spot. I know they will be sorting out dominance and it takes time, I’m trying to hold my nerve but very stressed! When do I call it a day? Currently the older two are sat quietly next to each other and baby the other side of the floor space. Is it possible to say if this is going to work out? I so wanted a little group of sows. If I do separate - who do I take out…do I remove baby and hope the older two can remain bonded (even though they did have a fight last night) or leave the dominant one with the baby seen as she has done a bit of grooming. Or take out the dominant one (and take to rescue to get bonded with a friend).
Just don’t know what to do for the best.
Click to expand...

Hi

Give it 2-3 days if there are no tussles or mouthfuls of fur. If fronts harden and tension is mounting over this time instead of starting to settle down, the bond is broken - this goes both for sow bonds and mixed gender bonds. Call it off if it is clear that things are going the wrong way.
It is admittedly much easier when you have been through several failed bondings and can pick up on the little telltale signs much earlier on. Once sows have made up their minds that they are not or no longer 'us' (i.e. part of the same group), you have unfortunately had it for good; they are not going to change their mind for the next few years or ever. :(

Unfortunately, adding a third piggy to a bonded pair of any gender combination can lead to a fall-out if any tension is going down between the two bonded piggies or the stress brings underlying issues to the fore.

Wiebke

Thread 'Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?'

1 Singles and Pairs
Singles: Challenges and solutions for different singles situations (link)
Pairs: A closer look all possible pairings (link)
2 Trios and More by Gender
Boars
- Trios and quartets - Why better avoided
- Large Groups...
  • Like
 
Wiebke said:
Hi

Give it 2-3 days if there are no tussles or mouthfuls of fur. If fronts harden and tension is mounting over this time instead of starting to settle down, the bond is broken - this goes both for sow bonds and mixed gender bonds. Call it off if it is clear that things are going the wrong way.
It is admittedly much easier when you have been through several failed bondings and can pick up on the little telltale signs much earlier on. Once sows have made up their minds that they are not or no longer 'us' (i.e. part of the same group), you have unfortunately had it for good; they are not going to change their mind for the next few years or ever. :(

Unfortunately, adding a third piggy to a bonded pair of any gender combination can lead to a fall-out if any tension is going down between the two bonded piggies or the stress brings underlying issues to the fore.

Wiebke

Thread 'Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?'

1 Singles and Pairs
Singles: Challenges and solutions for different singles situations (link)
Pairs: A closer look all possible pairings (link)
2 Trios and More by Gender
Boars
- Trios and quartets - Why better avoided
- Large Groups...
  • Like
Click to expand...
Thank you. I will watch closely with the two 6 month sows and separate if needed. One seems more confident and dominant, the other does seem dominant but probably slightly less, is more nervous and she just seems to resent any interaction and gives her sister a kick if she's near. They had seemed to be able to work it out but honestly I do wonder if they could be happier apart and paired with a piggy of their choice. They never groom each other or rest near each other.
 
Pompom.daisy said:
I do wonder if they could be happier apart and paired with a piggy of their choice. They never groom each other or rest near each other.
Click to expand...

Not grooming or resting near each other is not indicative of the stability of their bond. Piggies generally do not sleep together and don’t always groom each other. I have never had a bonded pair even sit in the same hide together.
 
Piggies&buns said:
Not grooming or resting near each other is not indicative of the stability of their bond. Piggies generally do not sleep together and don’t always groom each other. I have never had a bonded pair even sit in the same hide together.
Click to expand...
Great, this is more promising
 
Pompom.daisy said:
Thank you. I will watch closely with the two 6 month sows and separate if needed. One seems more confident and dominant, the other does seem dominant but probably slightly less, is more nervous and she just seems to resent any interaction and gives her sister a kick if she's near. They had seemed to be able to work it out but honestly I do wonder if they could be happier apart and paired with a piggy of their choice. They never groom each other or rest near each other.
Click to expand...

I would recommend to wait and see - especially what happens with the baby and who she attaches herself to.
I have jiggled sows round between different groups or with a new companion (sows or neutered boar) when bondings didn't work out - including squabbling sisters.

Sows also have a hormone high at around 6 months but since clashes only rarely lead to a fall-out it usually goes unnoticed.

I would recommend to read the chapters about fear-aggression and the 2 weeks' post-intro dominance phase in this link here: Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
 
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