Sore skin 😫

[Tookietookie]

Hi ! I have 2 lovely wee girl piggys! We have having issues with one of them... she has a bad skin condition at the minute and the vet is at a loss to what it is... she has had skin scrappings and all come back clear... she has lots of open sores just from scratching... has anyone else experienced the same with their pigs and what did they do to help? Our other pig has some dry skin and starts of broken skin but vet thinks it's coming from the other pig maybe nibbling at her? At a loss not to what to do

 

[Tnoz]

When mine were suffering with mites, aswell as the Xeno used I was spreading sudocrem with cotton bud on affected areas, it helped with it and the possibility of infection, I hope you find a solution or one of the experts may have some good advice good luck

 

[Piggies&buns]

So she has been checked for all mites and fungal infections and there is definitely nothing to be found?
Have any treatments been prescribed by the vet?
Have they been given a course of xeno?
Any painkillers?

What kind of bedding are they on?
If fleece, have you changed detergent?
Any other possible irritant they may be in contact with?

Please don’t put anything on the skin yourself. We don’t recommend sudocreme as it can dry the skin out too much

Could you please also change your location to be your county, not your postcode. This is for your own safety as a postcode gives too much information about your exact location

 

[Tookietookie]

So she has been checked for all mites and fungal infections? And there is nothing to be found.
Have any treatments been prescribed by the vet?
Have they been given a course of xeno?
Any painkillers?

What kind of bedding are they on?
If fleece, have you changed detergent?
Any other possible irritant they may be in contact with?

Please don’t put anything on the skin yourself. We don’t recommend sudocreme as it can dry the skin out too much

Could you please also change your location to be your county, not your postcode. This is for your own safety as a postcode gives too much information about your exact location

Hi!

Treated with a 5 day course of antibiotics of that's what the Xeno is..... no no pain killers
She had a skin scrapping that went to the labs and come back a complete negative... this after another 2 weeks to see if anything would grow..
They are on woodshavings ... nothing has changed at all since getting them.... they did she she had an ovarian cyst but didn't think this would be the cause... there was some hair loss initially but It seems to be coming back .

Took them back today and the other one who up until now had absolutely nothing on her has a fee patches... vet thinks it may be the other one nibbling at her so to keep them as separate as possible without stressing them just to see ... she is at a loss and feels awful about not being able to help more.... we are starting more antibiotics tomorrow amd potentially ringworm treatment as a last ditch attempt

 

[Piggies&buns]

xeno isn’t an antibiotic. It is a mite treatment.

You’re in a bit of a difficult position but Separating them at all will be stressful. A medical separation does have the potential to ruin a bond as they may not accept each other back. It’s a difficult call given they don’t know what the issue is

 

[Tookietookie]

xeno isn’t an antibiotic. It is a mite treatment.

You’re in a bit of a difficult position but Separating them at all will be stressful. A medical separation does have the potential to ruin a bond as they may not accept each other back. It’s a difficult call given they don’t know what the issue is

They did have a one dose treatment of that at the very beginning... they were both treated... can't remember exactly but they had to get so many drops per their weight... I have just used one of the cage doors to divide them so they can still see and hear eachother... do you think that will be OK? I did think separating them would be stressful but if she's potentially biting at the other one then it's worth a try?

 

[Siikibam]

I don’t know whether nibbling at her companion would cause the skin issue. The other thing is that she has been exposed so separating them wouldn’t make a difference.

Are you able to post a photo? What did they test for on the scrapings?

When they were treated at the beginning, had they been found to have mites?

 

[Tookietookie]

I don’t know whether nibbling at her companion would cause the skin issue. The other thing is that she has been exposed so separating them wouldn’t make a difference.

Are you able to post a photo? What did they test for on the scrapings?

When they were treated at the beginning, had they been found to have mites?

That's what I thought... its only now she's got sore bits too... I'll try get pictures of her to show you.. iv just checked them and they seem pretty calm and relaxed but if they show any sign of stress I'll take out the cage... I'll see if I have any pictures of Lola .

As far as I know thet tested for everything... mites.. ringworm... infection all came back clear..

 

[Piggies&buns]

If it’s all come back clear then its probably irrelevant but for information one dose of Xeno isn’t the correct course. To treat mites they need three doses with two weeks between each dose - so in total it takes six weeks to cure mites

 

[Tookietookie]

That's what I thought... its only now she's got sore bits too... I'll try get pictures of her to show you.. iv just checked them and they seem pretty calm and relaxed but if they show any sign of stress I'll take out the cage... I'll see if I have any pictures of Lola .

As far as I know thet tested for everything... mites.. ringworm... infection all came back clear..

No mites were found at all even in the beginning x

If it’s all come back clear then its probably irrelevant but for information one dose of Xeno isn’t the correct course. To treat mites they need three doses with two weeks between each dose - so in total it takes six weeks to cure mites

At the beginning she did a fluorescent light test and couldn't see anything moving and looked under the microscope from a tape test and was negative but treated just incase...my other one has been totally fine up until this week too... she's baffled I don't want to be treating them for something they don't need either

 

[Swissgreys]

No mites were found at all even in the beginning x

At the beginning she did a fluorescent light test and couldn't see anything moving and looked under the microscope from a tape test and was negative but treated just incase...my other one has been totally fine up until this week too... she's baffled I don't want to be treating them for something they don't need either

It really does sound like you are doing everything possible.
However I would still be tempted to do a full course of Xeno.
When one of mine had itchiness we also did a skin scrape, skin culture and hair root culture, plus multiple checks under the microscope and never found anything.
However the Xeno did clear it up, and the vet said this is often the case as there isn't any really reliable way to test for mites.

 

[Tookietookie]

I think that's the next step to be honest... I'll make sure it's a full course this time... she is getting antibiotics tomorrow help with the wounds.... hopefully that'll improve them slightly! Thanks so much xx

 

[PigglePuggle]

From what you say, I think msybe you arent clear about the different psthogens, tests, and treatments.
1. Fungal, called Ringworm- extremely infectious to humans, piggies and other pets, very persistent, starts around the face but spreads very fast. Can be seen under UV light and also confirmed by 2 week skin culture- treated with oral Itrafungol and topical Imaverole/miconizole.
2. Hay mites/lice- unlikely to be the issue here as quite superficial, can be seen with fur test using tape under the microscope, treated with 3x doses of Xeno, 2 weeks apart.
3. Mange mites- live INSIDE the skin- very serious problem. Require a skin scrape/biopsy of the affected area then can be seen under microscope. Treated with 3x doses of Xeno, 2 weeks apart- or in severe cases, oral or injectable ivermectin.
4. Bacterial- this may occur as a secondary infection due to scratching from ringworm or mange mites- treated with antibiotics.

From what you describe I would strongly suspect mange mites incorrectly diagnosed and treated- now in both pigs. Have you employed proper cage hygiene measures- F10 disinfecting the cage base, hot washing at 60 degrees C any fabric items, throwing away any cardboard items, freezing any wood items or soaking them in F10 and leaving them in the sun for several hours?
I very much doubt that with 1 piggy with skin sores, her companion developing skin sores is barbering and not the same infection.
Please make sure you are clear on what pathogens may be causing this, and what tests and treatment are appropriate for which disease- and make sure both piggies get treated, with prescription strength medication, cage mates will invariably both need treating- and you employ proper, slightly paranoid even cage hygiene.
Hope this helps get things straight, but its always good to have clear accurate information when going to the vets to empower you to fully understand what to expect, what the possible diagnoses could be, what tests are appropriate, and what mefication to expect the vet to prescribe! Best of luck x

 

[Free Ranger]

And just for a bit of reassurance, I've used xeno a lot over the years because of my set up and have never had any problems... I'd go so far as to say it's quite routine here. I have between 2 and 4 piggies at any given time and take in older pigs, adult 'last' pigs and rescue pigs. So we might get a new arrival and they might be carrying passengers so we get prescribed the xeno routinely (whether mites are positively confirmed or not, because mites are pretty common) and everyone is treated - 3 times. And the shedding and scratching stops, and we've never had any problems - we love it, very effective.

Vets have different attitudes to this stuff. There are 2 strengths for different size animals... because you can use ivermectin in a lot of different species for all sorts of things. We get xeno-450 which is for animals over 1.2kilo. There is xeno mini-50 for smaller animals. Not everypig here has been over 1.2 kilo, some have been 1.1 or even 1ish, but they can work out the proportion of the tube to spot-on. We don't count the drops - I need glasses and I'm not that accurate - but for smaller pigs they give a narrow syringe to suck up the contents and do a bit of maths. But sometimes a very careful vet might use the xeno mini-50 for what is essentially an adult size pig and that's where things can start to get expensive and messy because you need more than one tube to get the required dose for bodyweight, and all your pigs should be treated together at the same time whether they're symptomatic or not because they're contagious. As you mentioned counting drops I'll assume you got the 450 and your pigs are adult size(?)

You must do the repeat doses and they should be two weeks apart. This is because xeno does not kill the eggs and so they will hatch out and start to grow to breeding maturity. This takes about 3 weeks, so you do the repeat dose at 2 weeks to kill them before they start to lay again. The 3rd dose two weeks later is to mop up any stragglers. Conveniently a box of 6 xeno-450 tubes is good to treat a pair of porky piggies for the full course! (and fyi I once got accidently prescribed 2 doses 3 weeks apart instead of 3 doses 2 weeks apart and of course the mites came straight back. An easy mistake for that young vet to make - but he was embarrassed enough that he won't make it again!)

The mites spasm as they die so treating a heavy infestation can lead to a couple of hours of distressing itching for piggy before things calm down. Mange mites are horrible and the itching can drive them to harm themselves trying to scratch. You'll know after treatment if you got it right because the scratching pretty much stops! The stuff wears off after a few days so there will be no lasting effects. I dob it on the bald patches behind ears, where I see the skin in rosettes, or by lifting the hair along the spine and dobbing it at the roots. It needs to soak into the skin, not the fur.

If you see no difference after treatment in their itching, and they've had the correct dose for bodyweight, fungal infections are also pretty common. I don't know if I've ever heard of piggies being allergic to wood shavings but I guess you could try different bedding if you thought that might be an issue... but I suppose if it was then most of the scabby patches would be on the tummy area where there is contact. Let us know how you get on x

 

[Tookietookie]

And just for a bit of reassurance, I've used xeno a lot over the years because of my set up and have never had any problems... I'd go so far as to say it's quite routine here. I have between 2 and 4 piggies at any given time and take in older pigs, adult 'last' pigs and rescue pigs. So we might get a new arrival and they might be carrying passengers so we get prescribed the xeno routinely (whether mites are positively confirmed or not, because mites are pretty common) and everyone is treated - 3 times. And the shedding and scratching stops, and we've never had any problems - we love it, very effective.

Vets have different attitudes to this stuff. There are 2 strengths for different size animals... because you can use ivermectin in a lot of different species for all sorts of things. We get xeno-450 which is for animals over 1.2kilo. There is xeno mini-50 for smaller animals. Not everypig here has been over 1.2 kilo, some have been 1.1 or even 1ish, but they can work out the proportion of the tube to spot-on. We don't count the drops - I need glasses and I'm not that accurate - but for smaller pigs they give a narrow syringe to suck up the contents and do a bit of maths. But sometimes a very careful vet might use the xeno mini-50 for what is essentially an adult size pig and that's where things can start to get expensive and messy because you need more than one tube to get the required dose for bodyweight, and all your pigs should be treated together at the same time whether they're symptomatic or not because they're contagious. As you mentioned counting drops I'll assume you got the 450 and your pigs are adult size(?)

You must do the repeat doses and they should be two weeks apart. This is because xeno does not kill the eggs and so they will hatch out and start to grow to breeding maturity. This takes about 3 weeks, so you do the repeat dose at 2 weeks to kill them before they start to lay again. The 3rd dose two weeks later is to mop up any stragglers. Conveniently a box of 6 xeno-450 tubes is good to treat a pair of porky piggies for the full course! (and fyi I once got accidently prescribed 2 doses 3 weeks apart instead of 3 doses 2 weeks apart and of course the mites came straight back. An easy mistake for that young vet to make - but he was embarrassed enough that he won't make it again!)

The mites spasm as they die so treating a heavy infestation can lead to a couple of hours of distressing itching for piggy before things calm down. Mange mites are horrible and the itching can drive them to harm themselves trying to scratch. You'll know after treatment if you got it right because the scratching pretty much stops! The stuff wears off after a few days so there will be no lasting effects. I dob it on the bald patches behind ears, where I see the skin in rosettes, or by lifting the hair along the spine and dobbing it at the roots. It needs to soak into the skin, not the fur.

If you see no difference after treatment in their itching, and they've had the correct dose for bodyweight, fungal infections are also pretty common. I don't know if I've ever heard of piggies being allergic to wood shavings but I guess you could try different bedding if you thought that might be an issue... but I suppose if it was then most of the scabby patches would be on the tummy area where there is contact. Let us know how you get on x

Thanks so much!

Been to vets today to pick up antibiotics they are Sulfatrim... i am to give 0.3ml once daily .... she also took another scrapping to check under microscope an actually found fungal issues so I'm to treat with anything that contains chlorhexadine! Iv bought some hibiscub one the wounds have cleared up slightly xx

 

[Free Ranger]

She didn't talk about the oral treatment Itrafungol? As I understand it that's like a one shot deal to kill fungus throughout the body.

Good luck with the ABs - keep an eye on the poops and appetite to make sure they're still munching.

I used hibiscrub once in a diluted form to sloosh out an open wound on a piggy which had to heal from the inside out… but I'm afraid I can't remember what the dilution was. I've also used it myself as a body wash before surgery but I don't have such sensitive skin as piggies - I'm pretty leathery. The surgeon did say to be extremely careful around eyes though as it really stings. @PigglePuggle - any experience with fungal pigs and hibiscrub? I wouldn't know whether to treat both or not…

 

[Tookietookie]

She didn't talk about the oral treatment Itrafungol? As I understand it that's like a one shot deal to kill fungus throughout the body.

Good luck with the ABs - keep an eye on the poops and appetite to make sure they're still munching.

I used hibiscrub once in a diluted form to sloosh out an open wound on a piggy which had to heal from the inside out… but I'm afraid I can't remember what the dilution was. I've also used it myself as a body wash before surgery but I don't have such sensitive skin as piggies - I'm pretty leathery. The surgeon did say to be extremely careful around eyes though as it really stings. @PigglePuggle - any experience with fungal pigs and hibiscrub? I wouldn't know whether to treat both or not…

No she just said treat with anything that had chlorhexadine in... she mentions duoxo mousse or malaseb? I suggested hibiscrub and she agreed... I never even thought of the ratio... I read on another thread on here that someone used 1:10 ?

 

[Free Ranger]

It's not something I've heard of at all for washing whole pigs - only for diluting and dobbing on wounds, but there - I'm not an expert. I can tell you it made a mess of my own hair! The only fungal girl I ever had was a very elderly lady who didn't scratch but just lost hair all over her body. It wasn't ringworm fortunately, but some sort of general thing as her immune system was failing. I got some sort of prescription anti-fungal shampoo and had to repeat a couple times over a few weeks (can't remember details, I'm so sorry). I wasn't on the forum at the time and didn't know about the itrafungol.

You see, it worked and her fur had started to grow back a treat, but during the last oh-so-careful rinse she snuffed up a single drop of water, sneezed, developed pneumonia and passed within a day. It took her quickly because of her age. Broke my heart

@Piggies&buns @Siikibam have you heard of using a dilution of hibiscrub for fungal issues?

 

[Tookietookie]

It's not something I've heard of at all for washing whole pigs - only for diluting and dobbing on wounds, but there - I'm not an expert. I can tell you it made a mess of my own hair! The only fungal girl I ever had was a very elderly lady who didn't scratch but just lost hair all over her body. It wasn't ringworm fortunately, but some sort of general thing as her immune system was failing. I got some sort of prescription anti-fungal shampoo and had to repeat a couple times over a few weeks (can't remember details, I'm so sorry). I wasn't on the forum at the time and didn't know about the itrafungol.

You see, it worked and her fur had started to grow back a treat, but during the last oh-so-careful rinse she snuffed up a single drop of water, sneezed, developed pneumonia and passed within a day. It took her quickly because of her age. Broke my heart

@Piggies&buns @Siikibam have you heard of using a dilution of hibiscrub for fungal issues?

Oh my goodness I'm so sorry, that's so sad! I am very wary of bathing then to be honest.. maybe the mousse might be a better option... I'll look into what you suggested also... she said it wasn't contagious to us so must be a ringworm fungal infection... x

 

[Piggies&buns]

Oh my goodness I'm so sorry, that's so sad! I am very wary of bathing then to be honest.. maybe the mousse might be a better option... I'll look into what you suggested also... she said it wasn't contagious to us so must be a ringworm fungal infection... x

Ringworm is highly infectious to all animals including humans. Requires stringent cage hygiene and disinfection and the best thing to treat it is with oral introfungal medication.
If the vet said it isn’t infectious, then it will not be ringworm but instead will be a different type of fungal infection (less infectious).

I can’t say I’ve heard of full bathing in hibiscrub to treat fungal issues. It’s used to clean wounds (which would make sense given your piggy has wounds). @PigglePuggle

 

[Free Ranger]

Ringworm is the contagious one, but you'll know if you get it because you'll get a big red itchy ring on your skin! But there are other types of fungal that are much less infectious… my old girl lived with 2 others and neither ever showed any sign of it. I've very little experience of fungus though - I've tagged in some of the experts and I'm sure they'll be able to give opinions and advice about current thinking. There are certainly different ways to treat as I've seen posts from the middle east where this can be a big problem: perhaps climate, lack of vets who know about piggies, lack of meds generally and sometimes even a general anti-pet culture mean that people there just have to manage with what they can for their beloved piggies. But here in the UK we're lucky.