Snøhvit & Magma bonding (two females 1,5yrs)

[Gullfaks]

Hi!
I just started the bonding process of my two very shy sows, its been about 20 minutes and they are still sitting togethers in a corner. I’ve had Snøhvit for 1 year, and just got Magma.

First they just sat completely still, then they both purred quite a bit. After some smelling, Magma started to clean herself in front of Snøhvit. Is that a sign of accepting Snøhvits dominance?

A few minutes after, Snøhvit started to lick Magmas head - which I thought would show Snøhvits acceptance of Magmas dominance.
This seems confusing.

They are now still purring a bit, but no fighting or chasing. Still sitting togethers in the corner, but they start to seem interested to explore their temporary cage setup for the introduction phase.

Any advice on what I should look for next?

Thanks for all feedback! This is the first bonding I amever doing

 

[Gullfaks]

Now Snøhvit is eating normally, still seeming curious about Magma though, but not bothering her as I can see.

does this mean the bondingis completed, or should I give them more time?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Looks positive.
you’ll want them in the bonding pen for several hours to go through the stages of setting up their relationship and dominance.
it will still take a further two weeks for them to fully sort things out.

 

[Gullfaks]

Ok, great - thanks for the comment!
Then I will leave them for a few more hours before I move them to their cleaned cage

 

[alpacasqueak]

Hope all goes well!

 

[Qualcast&Flymo]

Hope the bonding continues to go calmly!

As I understand it, the piggy doing the licking is saying " you're welcome in my herd" so is the dominant one, and a pig cleaning itself is showing it's relaxed.
Have you read through the bonding guides and videos?

 

[Siikibam]

Sounds like it’s going well. When bonding you only do piles of hay and veg, so I would take out any hides in the pen.

 

[Rivervixen]

Best of luck x

 

[Gullfaks]

I have moved them into the cage now, the newcomer first to let her have 1h alone.
They seem to be doing fine, still no fighting or chasing. Magma is still just sitting in the darker corner, munching a bit of hay - but too shy to discover the cage yet.
Snøhvit is running a bit around and eating, seems like she is trying to inspire Magma to see the cage with her!
From time to time a bit of purring and teeth chattering, but mostly they are just «talking» with happy sounds to each others

I guess Magma needs more time to get comfortable, not only is my guinea pig new to her but also the cage and the room with all the sounds and smells.

 

[Gullfaks]

Hope the bonding continues to go calmly!

As I understand it, the piggy doing the licking is saying " you're welcome in my herd" so is the dominant one, and a pig cleaning itself is showing it's relaxed.
Have you read through the bonding guides and videos?

That sounds good Yes, I have read the guides, really helpful! Still, as a nervous piggie-mama, I start doubting if what I observe of behaviour in this bonding is like what is described in the guides or not... so very good to have your feedback as well

 

[Gullfaks]

After the first night together in the cage, Snøhvit seems a bit more irritated today. She is chasing Magma from time to time, teeth chattering and trying to climb on top of her. Is this normal following a rather calm first day? Is this the dominance-phase, or does this already indicate that the bonding is not successful?

After having chasing Magma into one of the hideys, I heard a small scream - so I decided to take out all the smaller hideys that just fit one guinea pig, and drape fleece over 2x1 CC part of the cage to create one large hidey (fleece covering all sides, so its completely dark and protected), so that they can easily share it, and if Magma is chased into a corner, she can easily escape.

Magma seems to accept Snøhvit bothering her, and doesnt show much resistance yet. It is strange, as Magma weighs almost 200gr more than Snøhvit, and is much larger in body size! I was expecting Magma to become the boss - but Snøhvit is truly a little ball of strong bossy personality

Also - I havent seen Magma drinking from the water bottle yet. Snøhvit is drinking from it without problems. Could it take some time before a new guinea pig "finds" the bottle? I know she had a similar one in the cage she came from, so she should be used to the type.

Please let me know if you have any tips, or think I could handle the situation differently! Thanks a lot

 

[Piggies&buns]

This sounds fine. It’ll take two weeks of dominance behaviours before things calm down. Chattering, chasing and mounting are all normal dominance behaviours.

Yes, definitely remove any hideys with only one door. They shouldn’t be used as there is a risk of a piggy being cornered. However, hearing a high pitched squeal could well be submission squealing - again, entirely normal and is the piggy way of saying ‘ I accept the hierarchy’

Physical size has nothing to do with dominance - its character which will determine that.

Regarding the bottle, please ensure you have two of every item - two bottles, two (or more) hay piles, two food bowls (although if you can scatter feed veg and pellets, then that can help with any issues of hogging, but also it encourages a more natural foraging behaviour). If you know she can use a bottle, then that’s fine, but you could also put in a bowl of water.

 

[Gullfaks]

This sounds fine. It’ll take two weeks of dominance behaviours before things calm down. Chattering, chasing and mounting are all normal dominance behaviours.

Yes, definitely remove any hideys with only one door. They shouldn’t be used as there is a risk of a piggy being cornered. However, hearing a high pitched squeal could well be submission squealing - again, entirely normal and is the piggy way of saying ‘ I accept the hierarchy’

Physical size has nothing to do with dominance - its character which will determine that.

Regarding the bottle, please ensure you have two of every item - two bottles, two (or more) hay piles, two food bowls (although if you can scatter feed veg and pellets, then that can help with any issues of hogging, but also it encourages a more natural foraging behaviour). If you know she can use a bottle, then that’s fine, but you could also put in a bowl of water.

Ok great! Thanks a lot for your comments and tips I will do that

 

[Gullfaks]

Hi again!
Its day 3 of the bonding process, and Snøhvit is still chasing Magma around. I read in the guide that this dominance «show off» can last for many more days...

However, I am getting a bit worried about how Magma is settling in. I see her munching on hay and veggies constantly, but still her weight had dropped since I got her.

She was 1166gr when I got her on Sunday, and today she was 1080gr - quite a serious weight drop. Is this weight drop normal for piggies in bonding, especially for the new pig that is being chased and has a lot of new impressions to get used to?

I have two water bottles, two pellet bowls, two veggie bowls and hay all over the cage. I have not seen Snøhvit trying to block her water or food access.
Could it be due the stress of a new environment and a new (dominant) cage-mate that has resulted in this weight loss?

Thanks a lot for all comments!

 

[Siikibam]

You don’t need to weigh daily unless you have worries about their health.

Did you weigh her at the same time as before? It is a large drop so I would keep an eye on it. Weigh her in a weeks’ time, at the same time, and see. As an example I weigh in the morning before I top up their hay.

As she’s new I would also think about having her checked over.

 

[Piggies&buns]

If you’re going to weigh daily/every couple of days, then you need to weigh at the same time of day so you don’t pick up too much fluctuation.
she has gone through a lot in the last few days though, being taken to a new home and meeting a new piggy so she may just be settling in but i would definitely be keeping a close eye on her and speak to a vet.

 

[Gullfaks]

The first time I weighed her was as soon as we came back home with her - so I dont know if she had just eaten or not.
However, I thought the weight loss was already quite large even if you take into account full/empty bladder/belly - so I was curious if stress can make their weight fluctuate so quickly for a shorter time until they settle in properly.

Thanks a lot for your suggestions and feedback - I will take them into consideration

 

[Gullfaks]

Update - day 6 of the bonding:

Magma's weight has now stabilized at 1070 gr - so she has lost ~60-100 gr since I got her on Sunday (uncertain if she had just eaten or not when I got her). It is a large weight drop - so I will monitor her carefully for the next week, and weigh her daily to make sure it does not drop further. I hope the drop reflects the stress she has been under, and that she will gain weigh again soon as she settles in. Snøhvit's weigh has remained stable since the start of the bonding.

Snøhvit is still teeth chattering and chasing her around from time to time, but there are now also longer periods of a few hours in length each time where they both relax in each of their hideys (double-openings), or eat side-by-side togethers. In fact - it seems that Snøhvit usually chases her around and shows dominant behaviours when we are closeby the cage.
Has anyone else experienced this? Is it because we induce more stress by being around, or can dominant guinea pigs try to "show-off" in front of their humans?

The last few days, whenever Snøhvit starts to chase or bother Magma - Magma has started squealing/whistling more than the first few days when she was very quiet, and she seems to get louder and louder each time. I hope this means that Magma is gaining more confidence and is trying to let Snøhvit know that she accepts her dominance and would like this dominance-phase to get done.

Please let me know if you have any feedback, or have other thoughts than me regarding how this bonding is developing

 

[VickiA]

This all sounds perfectly normal for a sow bonding. Chasing, nipping, squealing are all signs you’d expect to see as they settle in together. The squealing can be quite dramatic but is really just her indicating that she is accepting her position as under sow.
I wouldn’t worry too much about the weight loss unless it continues. The stress of moving house, chasing around etc can cause some weight loss. As long as both girls have access to hay, pellets, water and veggies and no pig is blocking the other from access to them, then there is nothing much to worry about.

 

[Piggies&buns]

 

[Gullfaks]

This all sounds perfectly normal for a sow bonding. Chasing, nipping, squealing are all signs you’d expect to see as they settle in together. The squealing can be quite dramatic but is really just her indicating that she is accepting her position as under sow.
I wouldn’t worry too much about the weight loss unless it continues. The stress of moving house, chasing around etc can cause some weight loss. As long as both girls have access to hay, pellets, water and veggies and no pig is blocking the other from access to them, then there is nothing much to worry about.

Thanks a lot for the feedback! Then I will try to worry less and keep observing that everything proceeds nicely

 

[Gullfaks]

Hi again!

Thought I should give a last update in case someone is in a similar bonding situation that we were the first week and wondered how it can end up

It has now been 2,5 weeks since the introduction of Magma to Snøhvit. The first week consisted of a lot of teeth chattering and chasing, but around the 10th day - it became more peaceful and quiet in the cage, and I considered the first bonding process to be completed successfully, and Snøhvit accepting Magma as her new cagemate and finally realizing that Magma is submissive to her dominance
Since then, the two piggies seem to get along well, they eat togethers and they have both gained weight again. Still a tiny bit of chasing from Snøhvit from time to time - but nothing more than what is considered normal "arguing" between piggies sharing a cage, I believe.

Magma's personality is getting more apparent as she gets more comfortable in her new home - she is actually the one screaming the loudest when the fridge is opened now

Thanks a lot for your comments along the bonding, very useful! - I am very happy both our girls seem to be doing well together Here is a picture of the two cuties sharing a meal: