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Sludge in bladder

Raymond92

Raymond92

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hi everyone,
My lovely 3 year old piggy Raymond has had some ongoing bladder issues that have managed through painkillers. He lives a really happy life and is always full of beans. The last 3 months he’s had some real issues with crying when urinating and his usual dose of painkillers didn’t work. We took him to the vets and they suggested a scan of his bladder and removal of a stone if present. No stone was present but an absolute ton of sludge was. So the vet did a bladder flush on him and kept a sample of his urine to show us. It was so bad that I gasped when I saw it, it was like someone had mixed sand with a drop of water.
He was then on a course of antibiotics, painkillers and a med that relaxes his bladder to let the sludge pass.
He was doing really well for a while, a little bit of pain when weeing but really minimal. We thought he was on the road to recovery but recently he’s been in a lot of pain again 😞 he doesn’t really cry throughout the day but in the evening it seems be really troublesome for him. Once he does his painful wee it’s like he’s forgotten about it immediately and goes back to his normal way of life. My concern is that when I felt his wee recently it felt very gritty. I’m concerned that his bladder has filled back up with sludge.
Would appreciate any advice on how to help with this. He already takes a urine health tablet with painkiller but it just doesn’t seem to be doing much.
I’m also worried that I’m seen as cruel for not considering putting him to sleep. If he was in a bad way I would do it without second thought but 90% of the time he is happy as anything - loves running, playing, cuddles and lots of nice snack. Any advice or thoughts would be great.
 
Maybe its the diet you're feeding them. sometimes if they have too much calcium in their diet it can cause bladder stones. how much pellets are you feeding them? what kind of veggies. search around the forum and internet and see for your self if you're giving them too much. it might help prevent the problem, but ultimately you'll have to get your vet to help you with that problem.
 
It would be a good idea to return to the vet to check his bladder and see if any action needs to be taken now.

It’s important to keep the bladder flushing through so a wet diet can help. Serving wet veggies can help give some extra fluid. Giving an extra slice of watery veg such as lettuce and cucumber also.
Filtering their drinking water and feeding a diet low in oxalates would also be a step to take if you don’t already.
 
Thanks all. We’ve done loads of research into diet and we’ve steered well away from high calcium foods. Giving him lots of watery veggies and filtered water. We took him to the vets yesterday and they’ve suggested we keep him on his urine capsules, painkiller and phenoxybenzamine (dilates his urethra). I’m praying that his cocktail of medicines starts to see improvements. I’m just feeling so sorry for him.
They can’t have his bladder examined again as he only had it flushed 6 weeks ago. 😞
 
Hullo Raymond, I remember you 🥰
I'm sorry you are seeing these bouts of sludge - it must be very unpleasant. But you are not cruel for trying to manage it - you will be able to tell how he is doing from his behaviour when he's not peeing the sludge. My old boy on the left started forming stones last summer and we finally had a massive one removed from his bladder this Jan. He's immediately formed another massive one (and I wasn't that surprised) but he's on painkiller and glucosamine. He has 5 units of 1.5mg/ml metacam twice daily (about 0.35 ml I think) with 0.1ml gabapentin available in reserve for his bad days. He has a couple of off-days every now and again when he gets inflammation and incontinence but generally he is maintaining weight and enjoying life. He gets impaction too - and has arthritis - but he's still a chipper boy. It's been a rollercoaster but we're doing OK for now.

I bought some pee dipsticks off amazon (about £8 per 100) to test the pH of George's urine. Pigs are typically more alkaline than people but George is more alkaline than my 2 girls (who, touch wood, have had no stone trouble so far). People pee varies because we eat so many different things but piggies are thought to be between 8 and 9. My girls are about pH 8, maybe a little over. George is more like pH 9 but we are seeing it come down slightly recently. Why is that relevant? Well Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3 - the stuff limescale is made of) drops out of solution at about pH 8.6. Two vets have agreed with me that George's stones seem to be CaCO3... apparently this type is appearing more and more often in piggies. So if I can get George's pee pH down to that of the girls then I'm putting him in for another stone op. If I can't there's just no point as it will reform within weeks - possibly days - like this latest one did. I wonder whether they know what Raymond's sludge is made of?

George had 5 1/2 years of no stones and then it all started so at first I put it down to age, then to a UTI (he had a shocker in the autumn), then to potential kidney problems from his 2 years on metacam (he's drinking lots... he has a special little syringe he's very fond of) but it might not be any of that. He's got no fluid retention. And the girls are on the same diet after all. So he has his own thread in the chat section where we are putting in what we try. Right now we're trying to lower the urine pH so we've tried cranberry juice (no effect) and we're following up a few more things. One is a urinary supplement tablet and one is a 15 min daily outdoor 'brunch' on a heat pad to try and get some natural daylight. Vitamin D is something to do with their calcium metabolism but I don't know what. And people now keep their piggies inside far more than when I was a kid and anything with fur tended to live outdoors. I'm wondering if it's linked. And no doubt genetics play a part somewhere in all this...

Anyway, sorry there isn't any immediate answer to Raymond's woes. The forum recommends filtering water, limiting pellets, and restricting low Ca veggies but although that can reduce calcium intake it doesn't really solve the problem. I used to be resigned to stones, thinking that evolution hadn't had to come up with a plan for 4 and 5 year old guinea pigs because the chances of them making it to that age 'in the wild' (if such a thing exists) were so slim. But some pigs are very young when these things start. It does make me wonder if we're missing something. Hence 'Project George' - I should add he doesn't mind being a project because he gets very special treatment after all 💕
 
Hi Free Ranger, thank you so much for getting in touch and how lovely that you remember Raymond 😀
It has been ever so unpleasant for him and breaks my heart to see him in this pain. When he’s not weeing he’s a very happy boy although the pain sadly seems to be a more common occurrence as the days go on despite all the painkiller I’m giving him.
I’ve also been recommended some gabapentin which I’m picking up for him tomorrow so I’m praying this makes a difference.
I’m sorry to hear poor George has also had some similar issues. It’s so sad.
I’ll get those pee sticks ordered and see how I get on. Hoping for you that George doesn’t have to go through any surgery.
They had Raymond’s sludge tested,it was fully made up of calcium, despite us being incredible careful with his diet and making sure he has filtered water etc. He was doing so well after the procedure, almost no crying a few days after and then it started up again. His urine felt very gritty, but unbelievably when I took him to the vet he did four big wees (I put down to nerves bless him) and only of a couple of parts felt gritty.
He takes a urinary supplement but I may take your advice and give him an outdoor brunch with a heat pad. Interesting point you make about indoor and outdoor pigs. I think you are right. He’s also kept in our lounge so we do hear every squeak, argument and cry.
Is there a link to George’s thread, I’d love to follow and share my best wishes too.
I’ll let you know how I get on
 
Raymond feeling a little sorry for himself
 

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Oh what a lovely face 💕
The vet told me that gabapentin is a bit of a funny one as they can get dependant on it. He said that if I gave it to George once a day for five days or so he'd probably be OK to just stop after that. But if he had it twice a day, or if he had it for longer, he should really be weaned off it rather than it just being stopped. So far he's only had to have it once a day for 2 days over a tricky weekend so I've not had to worry about that.

Prepare for a rollercoaster ride Stone me! George's secret...
George currently doing well - he's been very chipper the last two days although tomorrow is weigh-day and he's coy about his poundage so he'll resent me :roll:
 
aw thank you. Oh that’s interesting. I can’t wait to get Raymond on it and giving it a go. Unfortunately he’s gone very downhill the last couple days 😔 lost of crying despite painkiller and all the other meds. If we don’t have much luck in the next week or so with the Gabapentin, grass brunches, wet veggies etc we may have to consider having him put down 😔. It’s really upsetting to see him in so much pain but I also just want to hang on and see if we can give him a chance at life. He’s a very loved piggy.
Thanks for George’s blog. I’m so happy that he’s doing well. Look forward to giving it a read x
 
Ray update… I put a bit of dermisol cream on his sore penis (he’s developed a few nasty spots). I did noticed when I was giving him a clean up there was a hard lump between his testicle and anus. Could this be a sign of impaction? He does cry when he goes for a poo but I thought this was related to his urinary issues which is why I always dismissed the thought of it being something else.
 
When George is turned onto his back (like a hairy baby) you see his anus actually bulging open so removing the poopy cork is a bit like squeezing a blackhead (aah, the teenage years) and it's not difficult. It's about as big as - what would you say George? A dozen poops bound together in a lump? That's about right!
A hard lump or a lump on one side should really be seen by a vet - you can't tell the difference between a harmless fatty lump or a hernia without training and a hands-on exam. They do have a tail-bone and now George is thinner (just over 900g) I feel this as a bony lump (which he doesn't like - presumably that feels a bit too wierd), but this would be above his anus as he's standing on all 4s if you see what I mean.
There can be problems that mean it hurts when they poop that are unrelated to bladders, but bladder troubles can also affect the bowel. When George's stone causes inflammation he squeaks when he poops - although it's hard to tell exactly why as not everything is expelled... it might just be the motion of his gut moving against his bladder. UTIs will be more of a risk in an impacted boy because they often can't get such a good flow going to flush everything out. Being 6 is a pain in the *ss isn't it mate 💕
 
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