Sisters fighting

APerc21

APerc21

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Hello
Very new to owning guinea pigs and looking for some advice. I adopted sister guinea pigs about 2 months ago. They were almost 4 months when I got them so they are about 6 month now, even though they are the same age one is much smaller than the other. They got along fine until 2 days ago. The smaller one keeps nipping, chasing, and pulling hair out of the larger one. We have them separated and will be making a vet appointment when they open on Monday. Is this normal? Do guinea pigs who have been together since birth fall out? The smaller one who is being aggressive appears healthy, is eating and drinking as usual she is just not happy around her sister all of a sudden. The cage we have 5ft x 3 ft. Do we need more space? They do get frequently free roam time as well. They each have hideouts, food dishes, and water.
Looking for any advice.
Thank you 😊
 
I’m sorry to hear this.

A certain amount of dominance is normal but pulling hair out in sows is the equivalent of a full on boar fight.
If one is definitely unhappy being with the other then sadly that does indicate the bond isn’t working.

Unfortunately yes piggies who have been together since birth can fall out. This is because a bond comes down to compatibility, and a bond can fail when the teens hit if that compatibility isn’t there.

5x3ft is fine for two sows (it’s larger than the recommended - recommended being 5x2ft for two sows)
Giving more space will not fix compatibility issues.

I’ve added some guides below which will help you determine if this is a bond breaking situation

Wiebke

Thread 'Bonds In Trouble'

1 Causes for bonds to fall apart
2 Bonds in Crisis
- What are the signs of a dysfunctional bond?
- Bullying
- How can I test whether a bond is no longer working?
3 Failed bonds and what next?
- What to do if my piggies have had a major fight?
- When rebonding doesn't work out


1 Causes for bonds to fall apart

Every fall-out has of course its own...
  • Like
boureki

Thread 'Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs'

1 List of dominance behaviours in ascending order of aggression
2 What may cause this type of behaviour in boars?
3 When do you see these behaviours in sows?
4 What can trigger fall-outs?
5 Further helpful guide links


I thought it may be handy to have a sticky on typical dominance behaviours for a reference - hopefully it may help humans understand guinea pigs and their behaviour a bit more and hopefully prevent some avoidable problems!


1 List of dominance behaviours...
  • Like
 
APerc21 said:
Hello
Very new to owning guinea pigs and looking for some advice. I adopted sister guinea pigs about 2 months ago. They were almost 4 months when I got them so they are about 6 month now, even though they are the same age one is much smaller than the other. They got along fine until 2 days ago. The smaller one keeps nipping, chasing, and pulling hair out of the larger one. We have them separated and will be making a vet appointment when they open on Monday. Is this normal? Do guinea pigs who have been together since birth fall out? The smaller one who is being aggressive appears healthy, is eating and drinking as usual she is just not happy around her sister all of a sudden. The cage we have 5ft x 3 ft. Do we need more space? They do get frequently free roam time as well. They each have hideouts, food dishes, and water.
Looking for any advice.
Thank you 😊
Click to expand...

Hi and welcome

Your girls are currently right in the height of the teenage hormones. It is likely that a very strong season caused by a hormone spike has brought up an underlying unresolved dominance dispute. Sadly, it is a myth a that sows cannot fall out and even a greater myth that sisters will get on; in fact my sister pairs and triplets have the been the most acrimonial and have ended up with me needing to split a couple and keep with different groups.

The sow equivalent of a fighting boar bite is a mouth full of ripped out fur. Unfortunately, It usually means that the fronts are hardened and that neither party is willing to step down.

Wiebke

Thread 'Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)'

1 Sexing on arrival
2 Important reproductive Facts
- Start of making babies - seasons - lack of menopause
- Pregnancy
3 Sows in season
- How a season runs
- Strong seasons (snap seasons; the social role of strong seasons; problem seasons)
4 Behaviour and social aspects
- Bonding (Possible combos; acceptance and dating; special bonding aspects)
-...
  • Like

Wiebke

Thread 'A - Z of Guinea Pig Behaviours'

1 Introduction
2 Entries in alphabetical order
A
- Attention seeking and begging
B
- Back foot swipe
- Barbering (eating hair)
- Bar biting and rattling
- Begging: see Attention seeking
- 'Biting' Behaviours: Biting, Nibbling, Nipping, Tweaking
- Body language
- Border watch/lie-in
- Bullying
- Bum digging: see Poo stealing
-...
  • Like

I am very sorry for not having better news. You may want to improvise a cage divider with some cardboard.
 
Piggies&buns said:
I’m sorry to hear this.

A certain amount of dominance is normal but pulling hair out in sows is the equivalent of a full on boar fight.
If one is definitely unhappy being with the other then sadly that does indicate the bond isn’t working.

Unfortunately yes piggies who have been together since birth can fall out. This is because a bond comes down to compatibility, and a bond can fail when the teens hit if that compatibility isn’t there.

5x3ft is fine for two sows (it’s larger than the recommended - recommended being 5x2ft for two sows)
Giving more space will not fix compatibility issues.

I’ve added some guides below which will help you determine if this is a bond breaking situation

Wiebke

Thread 'Bonds In Trouble'

1 Causes for bonds to fall apart
2 Bonds in Crisis
- What are the signs of a dysfunctional bond?
- Bullying
- How can I test whether a bond is no longer working?
3 Failed bonds and what next?
- What to do if my piggies have had a major fight?
- When rebonding doesn't work out


1 Causes for bonds to fall apart

Every fall-out has of course its own...
  • Like
boureki

Thread 'Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs'

1 List of dominance behaviours in ascending order of aggression
2 What may cause this type of behaviour in boars?
3 When do you see these behaviours in sows?
4 What can trigger fall-outs?
5 Further helpful guide links


I thought it may be handy to have a sticky on typical dominance behaviours for a reference - hopefully it may help humans understand guinea pigs and their behaviour a bit more and hopefully prevent some avoidable problems!


1 List of dominance behaviours...
  • Like
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for the advice and the articles to read. I appreciate that so much.
Since guineas like a friend ( or so I think?) Does this mean I need to get two more?😆 a friend for each? I think The bigger one is missing her sister even though her sister attacks her. She does seem sad. The smaller instigator doesn't even seem phased right now that she is on her own. They are in the same room and can see each other.
 
Wiebke said:
Hi and welcome

Your girls are currently right in the height of the teenage hormones. It is likely that a very strong season caused by a hormone spike has brought up an underlying unresolved dominance dispute. Sadly, it is a myth a that sows cannot fall out and even a greater myth that sisters will get on; in fact my sister pairs and triplets have the been the most acrimonial and have ended up with me needing to split a couple and keep with different groups.

The sow equivalent of a fighting boar bite is a mouth full of ripped out fur. Unfortunately, It usually means that the fronts are hardened and that neither party is willing to step down.

Wiebke

Thread 'Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)'

1 Sexing on arrival
2 Important reproductive Facts
- Start of making babies - seasons - lack of menopause
- Pregnancy
3 Sows in season
- How a season runs
- Strong seasons (snap seasons; the social role of strong seasons; problem seasons)
4 Behaviour and social aspects
- Bonding (Possible combos; acceptance and dating; special bonding aspects)
-...
  • Like

Wiebke

Thread 'A - Z of Guinea Pig Behaviours'

1 Introduction
2 Entries in alphabetical order
A
- Attention seeking and begging
B
- Back foot swipe
- Barbering (eating hair)
- Bar biting and rattling
- Begging: see Attention seeking
- 'Biting' Behaviours: Biting, Nibbling, Nipping, Tweaking
- Body language
- Border watch/lie-in
- Bullying
- Bum digging: see Poo stealing
-...
  • Like

I am very sorry for not having better news. You may want to improvise a cage divider with some cardboard.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much! I appreciate all the advice I can get. I am still a bit shocked that they have fallen out. I thought I did a good amount of research but never came across anything about bonds being broken. It's sad.
Do you think we can free roam them together or best to always keep separate?
 
Once a bond is broken they need to be kept separate unfortunately. I know how much of a shame it is as that's one of the reason my boys don't get to free roam any more.
 
APerc21 said:
Thank you so much! I appreciate all the advice I can get. I am still a bit shocked that they have fallen out. I thought I did a good amount of research but never came across anything about bonds being broken. It's sad.
Do you think we can free roam them together or best to always keep separate?
Click to expand...

You can do a two day separation and a formal re-intro on neutral ground outside the cage, like we recommend in our bonds in crisis guide but please do not hold your breath. Please take the time to read up on the links in this thread. Our guides provide helpful in-depth information as well as practical how-to advice so you know exactly what to look for and what to expect.

But your two girls may be happier with having each her own territory to queen over and interact through the bars or finding a new submissive partner for the long term. Piggies are so much more complex creatures than we stuck up humans think. We frankly haven't got much on them when it comes to social interaction!

That said, my most dysfunctional sister pair went together in an old ladies Golden Oldies group (3rd incarnation) during the last few weeks of their lives, coming up to 7 years after over 3 years apart... So you really can never tell. However, usually once sows have decided that somepig (or they) are no longer part of 'us' (i.e. the bonded group), then that is it for good.

Wiebke

Thread 'The Herd, the Group and I: Investigating Guinea Pig Identity and Society'

Introduction
1 A Look at Social Identity
- Identity and Self-awareness
- Herd and Group: Juggling social identities
2 Herd Behaviours
- On the move
- Shared herd feeding
3 The Group and I
- Group identity vs. individual identity
- Group establishment and affirmation
- Use of the denning...
 
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