Settling In Vs Bonding

[RavenRed]

This forum has been really helpful since I joined but i'm hoping to get some advice on bonding with my piggies.
They were both about 4 months when I got them and we've had them with us for 6 weeks.
Caramac is more active and doesn't mind a head scratch or chin rub or two, but it's always been very difficult to get anywhere near Ghillie.

We're able to get them out of the cage without too much hassle by using boxes and cozies, but have only picked them up a handful of times.

Today I had them in the hall for floor time and Ghillie was reluctant to come out of the box I transported her from the cage in.
I sat in their area for a while talking to them and then slowly opened the lid of the box.
Ghillie sat very still, in the "play dead" stance and only moved very occasionally.
I continued to talk lightly to her and then very lightly stroked her head and chin.
She didn't move much but I'm assuming this is more out of fear than contentment.
My question is, should I be trying to touch/hold/pick up at this stage(whilst is easier for me but seemingly frightening/new for them) or should I wait until they're more settled and happy to tell me when they're had enough?

Caramac is happy to wander around me when I sit in their area, but isn't keen on getting picked up either.

My worry is that if I don't actively try to bond with them that it won't happen, but it feels bittersweet at the moment only being able to stroke them when they're "in the zone"
Any tips would be appreciated.
I've read the guides and I've tried acting like a guinea pig, "washing my face" etc but just looking for some clarity on how best to go about this.
I understand it can take several months but just wanting to check i'm doing everything right.

 

[Tiamolly123]

Have you tried to get both of them out for lap time you may find that they are braver with the other out as well

 

[RavenRed]

I was thinking of that but i'm unsure how to physically do that. I have my other half to help out but the only way I can think of to do it would be to either get them both out in a box/cosy on my lap or have them picked up one by one and put on my lap. I just have a fear they'll make a run for it and if they're both out it'll be difficult to catch them if they try to go anywhere.
I'm maybe overthinking it.

 

[Tiamolly123]

I was thinking of that but i'm unsure how to physically do that. I have my other half to help out but the only way I can think of to do it would be to either get them both out in a box/cosy on my lap or have them picked up one by one and put on my lap. I just have a fear they'll make a run for it and if they're both out it'll be difficult to catch them if they try to go anywhere.
I'm maybe overthinking it.

It should be fine you will feel when they are going to leg it then you pick them up & pop them back in the cage

 

[Guineapigfeet]

I have the same dilemmas with my three girls. They're much happier out together, but I just don't have enough hands! One, Chewie, I can stroke/ head scratch when she's 'loose' in the cage - when she feels like it. BB I can stroke the side of her face whilst I'm feeding her and Rey isn't having any of it! But she is the most chilled out for (the very rare) lap time, she's even gone for a full groom sitting on my lap (whilst the other two wander in opposite directions across the sofa!) and she's happy enough out on her own too, Chewie will *immediately* start clothes pulling and she *hates* being touched any further back than her neck.

 

[sport_billy]

It is early days. But I totally understand how you are feeling and have been through the same. Some piggies are more frightened by others and more skittish.

We have had two very skittish piggies in our time with pigs. Putt (the piggy on the right of my avatar) who passed away many years ago and Vimto who have now.

Vimto is the most scared pig I have ever encountered, she used to be a vampire piggy (a biter) However she will let me fuss her sometimes in the cage now, and she'll come for food and stay by my hand but contact is firmly on her terms. This is good going for Vimto as she was a biter when we first had her, we would have her on laps and she would snap and draw blood she was that scared. She was a very scared piggie and felt vulnerable on laps, she didn't appear frightened (but obviously was) but she was confident enough with me not just to freeze and squirm around and it was here way of saying 'please put me home i don't like this'. We worked at it and would take her out for 30 seconds then pop here home, we did this 3 times a week for around a month, then slowly increased it up to 5 mins via 30 second increments slowly
Each lap session she'd have a sprig of coriander. It took us 6-8 months but she doesn't bite now and will happily chill on laps for a while but not for too long We would never let anyone else have Vimto on there lap in case she wanted to taste the forbidden flesh once more

Putt wouldn't be handled at all and would freeze on lap this was the way for 3 years she only allowed feeding at bars and no stroking in the cage unlike her sister Pitch who was soooo chilled out. Putt turned into the only pig who would actually climb up on me for laptime and would spend hours watching tv together

What I'm saying is don't give up hope you will get there...

 

[Wiebke]

This forum has been really helpful since I joined but i'm hoping to get some advice on bonding with my piggies.
They were both about 4 months when I got them and we've had them with us for 6 weeks.
Caramac is more active and doesn't mind a head scratch or chin rub or two, but it's always been very difficult to get anywhere near Ghillie.

We're able to get them out of the cage without too much hassle by using boxes and cozies, but have only picked them up a handful of times.

Today I had them in the hall for floor time and Ghillie was reluctant to come out of the box I transported her from the cage in.
I sat in their area for a while talking to them and then slowly opened the lid of the box.
Ghillie sat very still, in the "play dead" stance and only moved very occasionally.
I continued to talk lightly to her and then very lightly stroked her head and chin.
She didn't move much but I'm assuming this is more out of fear than contentment.
My question is, should I be trying to touch/hold/pick up at this stage(whilst is easier for me but seemingly frightening/new for them) or should I wait until they're more settled and happy to tell me when they're had enough?

Caramac is happy to wander around me when I sit in their area, but isn't keen on getting picked up either.

My worry is that if I don't actively try to bond with them that it won't happen, but it feels bittersweet at the moment only being able to stroke them when they're "in the zone"
Any tips would be appreciated.
I've read the guides and I've tried acting like a guinea pig, "washing my face" etc but just looking for some clarity on how best to go about this.
I understand it can take several months but just wanting to check i'm doing everything right.

Just give Ghillie more time to get her bearings and become confident. In that stage, I usually am just there watching and talking, but not forcing physical contact. If she is worried coming our when you are in run, sit or lie next to it and dot some open-sided hideys she can dash under close to where to set her down. Children's stools are very good for that!

You have to take every piggy as it comes. There are always the bold ones and the timid ones. It is a question of personality, but not dominance. You can't force trust; it needs to grow. when you feel that you have pushed a piggy to the limit of what it can do, take a step or two back - you will get there eventually, I promise you!

 

[RavenRed]

It is early days. But I totally understand how you are feeling and have been through the same. Some piggies are more frightened by others and more skittish.

We have had two very skittish piggies in our time with pigs. Putt (the piggy on the right of my avatar) who passed away many years ago and Vimto who have now.

Vimto is the most scared pig I have ever encountered, she used to be a vampire piggy (a biter) However she will let me fuss her sometimes in the cage now, and she'll come for food and stay by my hand but contact is firmly on her terms. This is good going for Vimto as she was a biter when we first had her, we would have her on laps and she would snap and draw blood she was that scared. She was a very scared piggie and felt vulnerable on laps, she didn't appear frightened (but obviously was) but she was confident enough with me not just to freeze and squirm around and it was here way of saying 'please put me home i don't like this'. We worked at it and would take her out for 30 seconds then pop here home, we did this 3 times a week for around a month, then slowly increased it up to 5 mins via 30 second increments slowly
Each lap session she'd have a sprig of coriander. It took us 6-8 months but she doesn't bite now and will happily chill on laps for a while but not for too long We would never let anyone else have Vimto on there lap in case she wanted to taste the forbidden flesh once more

Putt wouldn't be handled at all and would freeze on lap this was the way for 3 years she only allowed feeding at bars and no stroking in the cage unlike her sister Pitch who was soooo chilled out. Putt turned into the only pig who would actually climb up on me for laptime and would spend hours watching tv together

What I'm saying is don't give up hope you will get there...

Thank you so much for the in depth response.
I understand everyone has different experiences and that all piggies are different, but I just worry I'm not doing all I can to make them feel safe and happy.

We took them both to the vet on Tuesday and we were told they were both fine, although Caramac is a little underweight, however they were fairly calm and only tried to run away once or twice :p

I had each of them on the couch(one by one), the next day to get used to being "out" and it went very well.
Then, the day after, it took me 20 mins to get Caramac into the pet carrier in order to transport her for floor time.
She was running away and trying to squeeze through tiny spaces and jump over things to get away.
It just gets disheartening when you get a good day and then suddenly they appear to be frightened again.

I definitely need to learn a little patience and just keep at it.
Your experience really helps me feel better about it. Thank you.

 

[RavenRed]

Just give Ghillie more time to get her bearings and become confident. In that stage, I usually am just there watching and talking, but not forcing physical contact. If she is worried coming our when you are in run, sit or lie next to it and dot some open-sided hideys she can dash under close to where to set her down. Children's stools are very good for that!

You have to take every piggy as it comes. There are always the bold ones and the timid ones. It is a question of personality, but not dominance. You can't force trust; it needs to grow. when you feel that you have pushed a piggy to the limit of what it can do, take a step or two back - you will get there eventually, I promise you!

Thank you. It's definitely worth a shot.
I think i'm also quite scared that if i'm not holding her she'll run and find somewhere to hide that isn't too accessible and that'd make her more stressed so I try and "fence off" every area they are in, never really giving them a free run about.
Although, the floor time area is about double the size of the cage.

Every day a little bit of their individual personalities shine through and even when i'm cleaning the cage, picking up poop or finding hay in my socks, i'm still very glad they're here.

Plus! they're just so fluffy and cuddly looking! lol.
I believe I did once get a piggy lick however. I melted

 

[sport_billy]

Thank you so much for the in depth response.
I understand everyone has different experiences and that all piggies are different, but I just worry I'm not doing all I can to make them feel safe and happy.

We took them both to the vet on Tuesday and we were told they were both fine, although Caramac is a little underweight, however they were fairly calm and only tried to run away once or twice :p

I had each of them on the couch(one by one), the next day to get used to being "out" and it went very well.
Then, the day after, it took me 20 mins to get Caramac into the pet carrier in order to transport her for floor time.
She was running away and trying to squeeze through tiny spaces and jump over things to get away.
It just gets disheartening when you get a good day and then suddenly they appear to be frightened again.

I definitely need to learn a little patience and just keep at it.
Your experience really helps me feel better about it. Thank you.

No worries.

I know... that is normal. The fact you have found a guinea pig forum on the net to ask questions on shows you are a caring person who wants the best for your piggies.

Glad all went well at the vets. I will still often use a chube as a conveyance device like in the video I made below, it takes the stress out of it for them and you and avoids 20 chases. We found the technique by accident after putt used to give us the run around smashing into everything, most poiggies hate been picked up it goes against all prey instinct and is nothing personal to you and the bond you share. Pity I didn't put Vimto in the video

I know it gets disheartening but you are doing really well.

 

[RavenRed]

No worries.

I know... that is normal. The fact you have found a guinea pig forum on the net to ask questions on shows you are a caring person who wants the best for your piggies.

Glad all went well at the vets. I will still often use a chube as a conveyance device like in the video I made below, it takes the stress out of it for them and you and avoids 20 chases. We found the technique by accident after putt used to give us the run around smashing into everything, most poiggies hate been picked up it goes against all prey instinct and is nothing personal to you and the bond you share. Pity I didn't put Vimto in the video

I know it gets disheartening but you are doing really well.

Thanks for that. I'd seen the video before (I believe it gets around ) but always good to have a refresher.
I've tried tunnels, cozies, boxes and the pet carrier so far, with varying levels of success.
The pet carrier seems to be the easiest and least stressful most of the time though. I put it in the cage and they walk in it.
The toughest part is keeping one in it whilst the other makes their way in to join them,lol.
I found out that my hand doesn't really fit over the ends of the tunnel we have, so they've attempted to shoot out when it's not quite on the ground.

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks for that. I'd seen the video before (I believe it gets around ) but always good to have a refresher.
I've tried tunnels, cozies, boxes and the pet carrier so far, with varying levels of success.
The pet carrier seems to be the easiest and least stressful most of the time though. I put it in the cage and they walk in it.
The toughest part is keeping one in it whilst the other makes their way in to join them,lol.
I found out that my hand doesn't really fit over the ends of the tunnel we have, so they've attempted to shoot out when it's not quite on the ground.

Have you tried serving a little bit of fresh veg or herbs at the back of the carrier whenever you want to transport them? The piggies will pick up on it pretty quickly. Just create a specific call for it, so they know what is coming up. Don't get worried if the timid one is spending a roaming round just in the carrier. Incidentally, that is going to make any vet and other trips later on much easier. If necessary sprinkle a little favourite treat close by and try to lure her out, but don't be upset if it doesn't work straight away.

My first adult couple got so used to my call "Cucumber! Come on!" they would even return from (supervised) free-roaming in the enclosed flower border into their walk-in run. A builder once nearly fell from a neighbouring roof when he saw the two shooting out straight back into the run! He wouldn't believe me...
A year later, the residential flock of starlings would pick up on the fact that I would refill the bird food during the piggy outing and would assemble on the roofs and trees, ready to pounce when they heard my cucumber call, ending the end of the piggy outing!

 

[RavenRed]

Have you tried serving a little bit of fresh veg or herbs at the back of the carrier whenever you want to transport them? The piggies will pick up on it pretty quickly. Just create a specific call for it, so they know what is coming up. Don't get worried if the timid one is spending a roaming round just in the carrier. Incidentally, that is going to make any vet and other trips later on much easier. If necessary sprinkle a little favourite treat close by and try to lure her out, but don't be upset if it doesn't work straight away.

My first adult couple got so used to my call "Cucumber! Come on!" they would even return from (supervised) free-roaming in the enclosed flower border into their walk-in run. A builder once nearly fell from a neighbouring roof when he saw the two shooting out straight back into the run! He wouldn't believe me...
A year later, the residential flock of starlings would pick up on the fact that I would refill the bird food during the piggy outing and would assemble on the roofs and trees, ready to pounce when they heard my cucumber call, ending the end of the piggy outing!

Hehe, what a story!
I need to find a phrase and stick to it. I think I vary it up too much at the moment.
They occasionally wheek when the pellet bowl is rattled and almost always when they hear the hay getting picked up.
Seem to like their veg but are very good at stretching out so far that they can grab it and run back to a safe place without actually needing to be fully in the carrier/box/cozy.
The other trick is bolt in, grab the veg, bolt back out. They're certainly not daft!
I think I need a 3ft long box so I have time to close the door before they can reach the veg and escape again.

 

[Wiebke]

Hehe, what a story!
I need to find a phrase and stick to it. I think I vary it up too much at the moment.
They occasionally wheek when the pellet bowl is rattled and almost always when they hear the hay getting picked up.
Seem to like their veg but are very good at stretching out so far that they can grab it and run back to a safe place without actually needing to be fully in the carrier/box/cozy.
The other trick is bolt in, grab the veg, bolt back out. They're certainly not daft!
I think I need a 3ft long box so I have time to close the door before they can reach the veg and escape again.

Put a pellet bowl or some fresh grass right at the back. Anything that they don't make a dash with.

 

[AuntyC]

You are doing well, don't worry! Your own anxiety can occasionally be picked up on by animals so the calmer you can be yourself, the better. With my foster piggies I always use a carrier with treats at the back and use the phrase "in the carrier!" in a sing-song tone of voice. Persevere, but don't be offended if your piggies do their own thing.

 

[GPcrazy]

My 2 are also still very skittish and being very young they're extremely fast, so I also worry about them running off during lap time. As a result, I sit in the (empty) bath for lap time. That way I know they can run too far / disappear / fall off a couch and get hurt.

As far as getting them into the pet carrier goes, I line it with hay. The one goes right in but the other avoids it. If, however, I walk away, then they both go in fairly quickly. So I just sneak back and close it quickly once they're both inside.

 

[Freela]

Personally, I do try to hold new pigs, a little each day, even if they are initially nervous about it. I would give them a blanket or cozy to hide or burrow into. I would also offer treats so they associated lap time with something nice. Although some of my pigs were more skittish than others, they did all get accustomed to being patted, although I had some that loved it and would sit there for hours and some that were 'five minutes and done' cuddlers.

 

[RavenRed]

We've been using the pet carrier more which is helping. They go in it freely, then I close the door, open the roof and lift them out. Generally to transport them to the scales for weighing, but sometimes I sneak in a little cuddle. I've had them out on the couch a couple of times but have yet to try lap time again.