Separating? Teen boar

Little Ones

Little Ones

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We got Sprout (now 5-6 months) from P@H to go with BB (now about 1 and a half years old) in December following a failed bond and acute pining episode. Things had been going well, both boys seemed happy together. Usually I would have gone for a piggy that was older and through rescue boar dating but this wasn’t an option.
Anyway, Sprout has clearly had a surge in hormones and I’m struggling to figure out whether to do a trial separation or whether to hold out. Things have gotten quite chaotic in the last week or so. There’s a lot of chasing and lunging - as in feet coming off the ground and throwing themselves at each other (usually Sprout throwing himself onto BB). BB is losing several fur clumps daily.
The only reason I haven’t separated yet is because they haven’t fought (to my knowledge) where they go into a puff ball and there also hasn’t been any blood drawn. At times things can get quite intense though. They’re in a 2x5 cage and there’s been times where they’ve been at total opposite ends and Sprout is chattering and being very dominant from across the cage and seeming very riled up. All hideys are a no-go, even if there’s two exits as they make the situation worse.
I can’t tell how BB is doing, he still seems to be eating and they do still eat beside each other at times. But things do seem to be getting progressively worse. BB doesn’t squeal in submission but responds by teeth chattering which makes me think neither of them want to back down from being in charge, but Sprout is very persistent in claiming the spot unlike BB. BB also has bowel disease, and at the moment he seems to be having flare ups so he’s doing squeaky poos at least once a day which I’m not sure is stress related.
I don’t know how long to leave it before splitting.
Any advice is appreciated :)
 
That does sound tense. I would perhaps do a trial separation then try them again. The issue is that BB doesn’t seem to be backing down. What does he do when Sprout chases or tries to mount him? Are the clumps due to his kidney disease or that Sprout is pulling them out?

Have a read of the guide below and see where they are sitting behaviour wise.
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
 
Siikibam said:
That does sound tense. I would perhaps do a trial separation then try them again. The issue is that BB doesn’t seem to be backing down. What does he do when Sprout chases or tries to mount him? Are the clumps due to his kidney disease or that Sprout is pulling them out?

Have a read of the guide below and see where they are sitting behaviour wise.
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
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There’s no mounting, when Sprout approaches and begins chattering BB stays dead still. Sometimes he’s quiet and sometimes he chatters. Then he will run and Sprout will chase him and then it all gets a bit hectic for me to make out what’s going on. I’d say the aggression level is maybe serious? It’s hard to tell. The only obvious aggression from BB is teeth chattering, when things get intense it’s hard to tell but BB is never the instigator. Sprout chatters, yawns/shows teeth, rumbles, chases, lunges and is the instigator. BB has taken a clump or two from Sprout during the altercations as they’ve been in his mouth afterwards but we are finding several clumps of BB’s fur around the cage. They are from Sprout pulling them out during altercations.
BB doesn’t submission squeal, I think that’s the problem so when he’s chased he doesn’t announce himself as not being a threat. Instead he will chatter along with Sprout chattering which then leads to them lunging and nipping at each other which pulls out their fur.
This started happening around once a day but it’s growing in frequency. If Sprout was an adult instead of a teen then I probably would’ve split by now, I haven’t had a teen boar in about six years so I don’t know how bad things can get before it’s more than hormones and just a dysfunctional bond
 
Naughty little sprout. It’s a tough call isn’t it? Because you’re really hoping it will all settle down again. Poor BB. I’ve got a 1 year old who is very calm and also a cheeky youngster who I think is trying it on a bit for dominant status. I’m keeping everything crossed they carry on getting on. I hope your two settle down quickly. It would be such a shame to separate. But only you know how bad it looks. Good luck.
 
I think separate them temporarily and see how they behave. The pulling tufts is usually reserved for sows. But the fact neither is backing down and it’s an everyday thing is worrying. I wouldn’t wait for a full furball fight to be honest.

Boars 🙄😉
 
Thanks all :)
I decided to separate after all about an hour ago when I cleaned the cage, so this reaffirms I’ve made the right call.
These are the hair tufts I found, along with one which came off him as I removed him from the cage:
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I’m surprised at how well Sprout seems now that they’re separate. I thought he’d be really scared but also relentlessly biting the bars to get to BB but he’s neither of those things. He seems to be behaving quite happily, he must’ve been feeling stressed out before if he felt the need to be so dominant all the time. We’ll see how he gets on. BB seems okay too, he’s gone to sleep now but was eating happily before that.
How long should I keep them separate? A day, or longer?
 
I would do 1-2 days. The fact they both seem fine apart is kind of a sign. As well as the hair pulling. Sorry.
 
Thank you both. I think that them being able to rebond is unlikely purely because neither seemed to be willing to accept a submissive role, this makes for a complicated situation!
 
Started the rebonding about an hour ago. Both piggies are very vocal, especially BB. He is constantly making quiet sounds which is unusual for him - not unusual for Sprout though.
They have done follow the leader with Sprout following BB. BB has cleaned himself beside Sprout. They have also been eating hay next to each other.
The most dominance they seem to be doing is chinning. There’s been some teeth chattering but not much. Sprout has shown his teeth by yawning once.
That’s all so far. It seems pretty laid back, mainly just chinning. I can’t tell at all if anyone is ‘in charge’ or more in charge than the other at the moment
 
Give them a while longer. Fingers crossed it was just Sprout having a hormone fuelled day!
 
I’ve just split them :(
Things were going well still in the bonding pen for 2 hours, then I moved them back into their cage. They were doing good, eating beside each other etc. Then after about an hour and a half, things just changed and they were back to squabbling.
Sprout would go to BB, his nose pointing towards BBs ear whilst BB just stood staring ahead frozen. Then after a minute or so, BB would sprint across the cage and as he began to sprint, Sprout would nip at his back and pull a fur clump out and chase him. Then there’d be chattering and then they’d disperse and a few minutes later the same thing would happen again. This went on for about 20 minutes before I split :(
I’m gutted, they got along so well until the last few days. I knew this was a risk when we got a baby piggy but I really hoped they’d make it. Anyway, looks like they’re just not compatible. The idea was that if they fell out, then we would surrender Sprout to a rescue as we got him for BB. I’m feeling a bit down in the dumps, I know realistically that it’s the right thing to do but I’m still really sad about it. He’s such a lovely and happy piggy, always zooming and popcorning. He’s just started to trust us more too. But I have to be practical about it.
The only thing left to do is try BB and then Sprout with Digby but I don’t imagine things will go well at all on those fronts. Digby doesn’t do well with other piggies due to fear aggression and other reasons but since he’s here it’ll be worth a shot.
 
Aw I’m so sorry that the bonding has failed :( It will do no harm to try them both with Digby and if it doesn’t work, at least you will know. If you do decide to surrender Sprout to a rescue, people will understand x
 
I’m sorry it didn’t work out. Unfortunately hormonal teens can make life difficult! You say. Digby doesn’t get on with other piggies. Do you think either of them would suit him? Could you just have them all living alongside each other, or space is an issue? It’s not ideal but the best of the situation if they all don’t get on.
 
Sometimes it just doesn't work no matter how much we try. Please don't beat yourself up about it. We had a similar situation a couple of years ago . We got Marvin as a baby and he was bonded through rescue with our older boy at the time. Until Marvin's hormones kicked in....and he ended up putting a hole in his older housemate. We separated them. Marvin was special needs and hated going anywhere he didn't know so we didn't want to send him to rescue for bonding as we thought it would stress him. We acquired him a baby brother...he loved him....until his baby bro grew up and hormones kicked in with Moses(the baby)... they started chattering all the time ,neither would back off....and that ended with a bite In Marvin's nose. We split them. But we couldn't end up in an endless cycle of getting piggies ....Marvin thrived by himself weirdly and as moses was still young I surrendered him to rescue ,felt like total crap ....but he got matched with another piggy and rehomed successfully. It was hard but it was the best thing to do. Like you I try and be practical. 💜
 
Claire W said:
Aw I’m so sorry that the bonding has failed :( It will do no harm to try them both with Digby and if it doesn’t work, at least you will know. If you do decide to surrender Sprout to a rescue, people will understand x
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Definitely, it’d be a waste not to try it given he’s here on his own! xx

Siikibam said:
I’m sorry it didn’t work out. Unfortunately hormonal teens can make life difficult! You say. Digby doesn’t get on with other piggies. Do you think either of them would suit him? Could you just have them all living alongside each other, or space is an issue? It’s not ideal but the best of the situation if they all don’t get on.
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Definitely, I didn’t really want a piggy so young because anything can happen once they begin to develop their personalities but beggars can’t be choosers!
The boys live next door to Digby, so they have bar interaction with him. Through the bars, he gets on with BB the most and they often sit by each other munching their hay. We’ve tried bonding them before but they really did not like each other at all, it was one of Digby’s first interactions with another piggy after being completely solitary for 5 years. From past experience, Digby will hump relentlessly for around 3 hours straight before calming down. He was previously bonded with an old and very patient piggy but after some time, Digby would ‘forget’ who he was and do the incessant humping again for several hours. I don’t think a bonding between him and another piggy will work but I may as well try, but he does live happily next door. As the cages have been split, he’s currently next door to just BB.
I know neighbour piggies are better than nothing, but to me it would be such a shame for Sprout who is only 6 months old to live in a cage by himself the rest of his life with just bar interaction. I mean right now he’s popcorning and zooming around his cage so he’s happy enough but I know piggies get a lot of enjoyment from physically being together and it would be a shame for him to never be able to have that. With BB, he’s 1 and a half, but since he has bowel disease and is on long term medication we know that he may have a reduced lifespan because of this. He and Digby would live happily side by side, but we are considering potentially finding him another friend. Should having 2 piggies in a cage be the ideal to strive for? Or does bar interaction offer everything they could possibly need? Ideally we only want 2 cages at the most too, which is another reason I’m not sure we’d be able to keep Sprout realistically.
Tinypixi said:
Sometimes it just doesn't work no matter how much we try. Please don't beat yourself up about it. We had a similar situation a couple of years ago . We got Marvin as a baby and he was bonded through rescue with our older boy at the time. Until Marvin's hormones kicked in....and he ended up putting a hole in his older housemate. We separated them. Marvin was special needs and hated going anywhere he didn't know so we didn't want to send him to rescue for bonding as we thought it would stress him. We acquired him a baby brother...he loved him....until his baby bro grew up and hormones kicked in with Moses(the baby)... they started chattering all the time ,neither would back off....and that ended with a bite In Marvin's nose. We split them. But we couldn't end up in an endless cycle of getting piggies ....Marvin thrived by himself weirdly and as moses was still young I surrendered him to rescue ,felt like total crap ....but he got matched with another piggy and rehomed successfully. It was hard but it was the best thing to do. Like you I try and be practical. 💜
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I totally feel your pain! BB resorts to his prey animal instincts when in unfamiliar situations, similar to your Marvin. He was originally bonded with another of our piggies (our 6 year old who since passed away) at a rescue, once we brought BB home and he settled in and stopped being so terrified, the bond broke. They just weren’t compatible. We were worried about BB going somewhere else to be bonded as he will appear to be a submissive piggy out of fear when really he is dominant. Rescues weren’t offering any bonding services anyway, so had to get a baby and now we are where we are. Boars can be such a nightmare it seems sometimes! I never understood why they had a bad reputation, in 6 years I’d had two boar pairs that got on straight away with flying colours but since November when one of them passed away, I’ve had 3 failed boar pairings! I’m glad you managed to sort out your situation, I think I’ll feel like crap when/if I have to surrender Sprout. It definitely makes you feel like you’ve failed, but really it’s not up to us, they either get on or they don’t and we have to be realistic across the board with what we can handle. I’m a big over thinker and I’m already worrying about if he goes to a not-so-good family, or if he doesn’t get to the vet when he needs to, or if they don’t feed him his favourite veg, or if he doesn’t have his sippy bottle that he loves and has to use a normal bottle instead. So many silly thoughts, but I can’t help it. They definitely become family so fast!
 
Little Ones said:
I totally feel your pain! BB resorts to his prey animal instincts when in unfamiliar situations, similar to your Marvin. He was originally bonded with another of our piggies (our 6 year old who since passed away) at a rescue, once we brought BB home and he settled in and stopped being so terrified, the bond broke. They just weren’t compatible. We were worried about BB going somewhere else to be bonded as he will appear to be a submissive piggy out of fear when really he is dominant. Rescues weren’t offering any bonding services anyway, so had to get a baby and now we are where we are. Boars can be such a nightmare it seems sometimes! I never understood why they had a bad reputation, in 6 years I’d had two boar pairs that got on straight away with flying colours but since November when one of them passed away, I’ve had 3 failed boar pairings! I’m glad you managed to sort out your situation, I think I’ll feel like crap when/if I have to surrender Sprout. It definitely makes you feel like you’ve failed, but really it’s not up to us, they either get on or they don’t and we have to be realistic across the board with what we can handle. I’m a big over thinker and I’m already worrying about if he goes to a not-so-good family, or if he doesn’t get to the vet when he needs to, or if they don’t feed him his favourite veg, or if he doesn’t have his sippy bottle that he loves and has to use a normal bottle instead. So many silly thoughts, but I can’t help it. They definitely become family so fast!
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Marvin lived on his own really happily for a good few months.....then we lost him back in Feb due to some serious dental issues. I know people frown upon piggies living on their own. . But I honest think he was special needs and preffered it. Previous to Marvin we have two successful boy pairings that worked perfectly.... it really does come down to personality 💜
 
Living in the same cage is the ideal but if they have to live side by side then that’s an option. So are you going to try Sprout or BB with Digby? If (worst case scenario) neither bond with him, what will your plan B be? BB? 😆
 
Tinypixi said:
Marvin lived on his own really happily for a good few months.....then we lost him back in Feb due to some serious dental issues. I know people frown upon piggies living on their own. . But I honest think he was special needs and preffered it. Previous to Marvin we have two successful boy pairings that worked perfectly.... it really does come down to personality 💜
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I’m sorry for your loss, I’ve had 2 dental piggies myself so I know how hard it can be! At the end our old and very special needs piggy lived happily with just bar neighbours - and even then he didn’t interact with them much so I think it’s very possible for piggies to still be happy in that circumstance! Some pigs really want an easy and quiet life.
Oh yes for sure, I’m just unlucky that I’ve landed myself with all dominant boys who don’t quite fancy backing down!
 
Siikibam said:
Living in the same cage is the ideal but if they have to live side by side then that’s an option. So are you going to try Sprout or BB with Digby? If (worst case scenario) neither bond with him, what will your plan B be? BB? 😆
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I think I’ll try BB first with Digby. BB will be harder to bond at a rescue because he resorts to prey animal instincts when afraid so if he gets on with Digby then that works out better. They also like each other at the bars more. If that doesn’t work, then I’ll try him with Sprout. This could work potentially. BB is dominant but not forceful which leaves room for Sprout to try and take over, whereas Digby in the past seems to be forcefully dominant. Sprout is dominant but seems insecure so may be willing to take the submissive position with Digby. That’s if Digby curbs his crazy and calms himself rather than being aggressive.
If that doesn’t work, I think we will have to let Sprout go. It would be good if someone nice on the forum could take him so that I know he’s gone somewhere proper so I might put a post on for him. I’ve also considered the possibility of neutering him before doing this, and before giving him to a rescue as I know he’ll have a greater chance of finding a good home that way. I know many rescues tend to get boys on the neuter list from the get go. I just want him to go somewhere that he’ll be loved if it comes to it. He’s such a gorgeous piggy with just the cutest, bubbly personality.
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Started the bonding with BB and Digby about 15 mins ago. And wow, I am so impressed with Digby! He’s showing very little fear aggression and isn’t relentlessly humping or being overly dominant. When Digby and Little secured their bond, Digby actually took the submissive position so I know he’s willing to if necessary.
I’m literally so shocked right now. There’s been some dominance, especially at first. Digby was very rumblestrutty. He’s tried humping BB a few times but hasn’t been successful as BB is very quick to tell him no and Digby backs off. Mainly, they’ve been sat eating their hay together like they would in their separate cages. It seems to be going well though overall so far, even if this doesn’t work out, I’m so impressed with how Digby is behaving that he may have a chance at getting along with Sprout if it comes to it
 
Siikibam said:
Keep them here for a good few hours. Hope it works 🤞🏾
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I will do, thank you!
It already seems very clear that BB is in charge, whenever they get a bit close with their noses BB will go under Digby’s chin and Digby will shuffle back and carry on eating without any complaints. I can’t believe how much Digby has improved through living side by side with another piggy. They’ve also cleaned themselves by each other too 🤞 There’s also been popcorns from both boys, good signs all around!
 
So sorry you’ve had all this going on @Little Ones, we’ve got everything crossed here that Digby carries on being such a good boy and the bonding works out! :hug: Keep popcorning boys! xx
 
After just over an hour, Digby resorted to his old ways. He started relentlessly humping BB, things didn’t get too aggressive but BB was becoming more distressed. I know what Digby is like and after 3 or 4 hours he’d have been okay if BB could last that long but I also know that Digby has memory problems so even if I’d have left them and they’d have bonded, at some point they would’ve have to go through the same thing again when Digby ‘forgot’ who BB was. Because of that, after about 50 minutes of the humping I split them.
I’m hoping they’re still able to be happy neighbours but right now both of them are biting like crazy at the bars trying to get to each other!
I’m still going to try Digby and Sprout tomorrow and see if there’s anything there.
 
Little Ones said:
After just over an hour, Digby resorted to his old ways. He started relentlessly humping BB, things didn’t get too aggressive but BB was becoming more distressed. I know what Digby is like and after 3 or 4 hours he’d have been okay if BB could last that long but I also know that Digby has memory problems so even if I’d have left them and they’d have bonded, at some point they would’ve have to go through the same thing again when Digby ‘forgot’ who BB was. Because of that, after about 50 minutes of the humping I split them.
I’m hoping they’re still able to be happy neighbours but right now both of them are biting like crazy at the bars trying to get to each other!
I’m still going to try Digby and Sprout tomorrow and see if there’s anything there.
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Aww bless you .....these little piggy dudes really do make us work hard don't they! 💜
 
I think given the way Digby behaves you may just have to keep him as a neighbour to any piggy. It’s a pity he was alone for so long. How was BB behaving with all the jumping? Was he accepting it?
 
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