Right Orsons in and it's not working - HELP

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Lisajazz

Lisajazz

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I put him in with the girls last night and it doesn't seem to be working.

Well not quite like that. They met in the run - hours and hours in there first while the cage cot otally changed.

It now has no internal ramps and is much bigger and better. Loads of room.

The problem is the girls hate him. Not all of them but 2 of them in particular are really bullying him. Everywhere he goes they are there to block him, there have been a few fights where no blood has been drawn but hair has been pulled out (his). This morning he wanted to go up the ramp and they went there purpously blocking him, they kept guarding him - you could see they weren't just standing in front of him they were moving infront of where he wanted to go. He doesn't help himself though trying to mount all the time.

It's breaking my heart

Any ideas?
 
How old is he?

It takes a certain kind of neutered boar to sort out some of the more dominant girlies - I've been lucky with mine but it's not always a given that the neutered boar will rule the roost.

I do hope he's ok. He'll either rise to the occasion or not - is he humping them?

Sophie
x
 
He's trying to. When I put my other boy in with his ladies he tried too but they wouldn't let him either. However he's very mild mannered and just backed away.

In this cage they are all teeth chattering and there's lots of tearing around with them chasing him.

I know if blood is drawn take out but how long should I give them doing this nasty behaviour before I can say enough is enough? I *really* want it to work out but I already knew and my vet already said with Orson's personality it may not work out. I was hoping though.
 
To a certain extent, let them get on with it - I would expect humping and rumbling and a bit of shouting, but it sounds worse than that?

Are you able to have him living next to them so they can see and smell him, but not hurt him - just until they're used to his presence?

Just because he doesn't get on with those sows doesn't mean he won't get on with others - I don't know how many piggies you have but maybe he could have a young sow of his own to be his wife? A group (how many sows is he with?) might be too much for him.

I really hope things turn a corner for you

Sophie
x
 
Thanks Sophie

He's lived next to them for 2 and a half months already before and after neutering - he's been attached to their cage. I left it hours in the run before we dismantled the cage and changed it.

I was hoping I wouldn't need another cage (but will if I have to)

I wish there were videos so you could actually see what's normal behaviour and what's not. To me this is bad but there is no blood, last night he and another girl had a fight and ended up with him losing a few tufts of hair but she didn't draw blood and neither did he.

There are plenty of places to hide but it's when they are on the top floor - food floor that most of the problems happen.

I have 3 food bowls, 3 water bottles and a whole row of hay racks but it's still not right.
 
I don't know what's normal behaviour... I know when mine were bonded the rescue lady used a lot of animals to create confusion and just generally mess up their minds before they were introduced. It's not always necessary, but perhaps here with your strong matriarchs they need to break up the groop a little to give Orson room? He's only a wee little man after all ;)

Do you have a rescue nearby that could help?

I understand not wanting another cage... You got Orson to save him, but also so that he could be part of your herd! It's lovely to see a big heard of piggies interact.

I hope it works out.
 
Ok Well how many sows is he competing with? He is after all only a baby boy! Also I know it will make mess of your cage but can you redistribute the food so it is spread out over many levels, thus avoiding them all having to go to the same place? Also but the water bottles on different levels. I would remove hidies with only one hole until it is settled as you don't want him getting trapped in one and having to fight his way out!

If worse comes to the worst could you spilt him a friend from your group of sows rather than getting another?
 
I have no advice sorry hun but I'm sending possitive settling vibes your way.
 
Aye to all the above tricks!

It is not unusual for the dominant sows not to take to a boar before they come into season; quite often it takes a season or two for bonding. The "bigwigs" do not always take to having their authority threatened.

Try and see whether removing any bullying tools helps - i.e. creating access to food on every level and taking out any hides he can be trapped in. Can you give them run time on neutral ground, even on the bathroom floor?

Only if that doesn't work would I separate him with another low ranking sow or two.
 
Thanks every one.

I have not put any hideys with one hole in and have taken a few more oout as even though some had 2 holes they were still popping out of them surprising him.

I am going to put hay and pellets on every floor for now and tonight when the girls are in bed will have floor time in the living room for them all - they all generally piggy train around when they do that and none are particularly used to it so it will throw them off a bit.

The good news is that he seems to have 2 friends, one indifferent and the 2 who don't like him haven't done anything now for hours. He pushed his way through unafraid when it was veggies time and happily shared with one of the girls who doesn't like him. That's good right? He doesn't seem affected by their naughtiness.

He even sleeps in the open in high traffic areas, it's not like he's hiding away and wont come out.

Fingers crossed it all stays calm.

I am very reluctant to split up my girls they have been together for a good while and everyone gets on - they were very happy until he came in. Hopefully they will be again very soon. If worst came to the worst I would get him a friend of his own but heavens knows where they would live. Fingers crossed it doesn't come to that. I really hope they manage to sort it out.

Don't know what it will be like when Flopsy goes in - I took her out of the group last evening, she didn't bother with Orson when in the run but she wasn't well.
 
It sounds like things are settling down nicely and that Orson is working his way into the tribe. You will see the interest of the sows shift according to whether they are near/in season or not, and eventually, Orson should end up with one or two particular girl friends.

He has obviously accepted the authority of the top sows, so as far as they are concerned, he is no longer a threat to them. That Orson is now allowed to share the food means that he is accepted; so I would stop worrying and let them work it out on their own in their own time. As sows come into season roughly every two weeks, you will have to allow about this much time for all the individual bonding to happen.

I had expected a certain amount of problems in working in a young boar into an established larger sow group - it is a lot easier the other way round when building up a group around a neutered boar because boars are great integrators!
 
I do not have any advice but i hope that all stays calm and they all bond. :)

If you are really worried and do need to ever spilt i can know of an excellent rescue in glyn neath run by Suzy she is great and helped with the bonding of my boys over the phone and told me what was normal etc and when to intervene. I know you know all about bonding but just thought i would suggest her as she is truly devoted to her pigs and know's her stuff.

Here is her website http://guinearescue.blogspot.com/
 
Oh dear, Orson tut tut. If it doesn't work out (*fingers crossed* it does!) could you try Mork in the big group and Orson with the pair? It would be a shame to split your girlies up :(
 
Well I don't want to jinx it but it's been good actually.

There have been a few stand offs but no one has actually fought. The girls have stood their ground and so has he and then somehow they haven't fought.

I have put flopsy back in as I'm worried about her being away too long and that's not too clever, teeth chattering so keep everything crossed it passes and she too accepts him.
 
Aw poor Orson. Glad to hear that things are now going smoothly *crosses fingers * Hope your group continue to settle and everyone becomes the best of friends xx
 
Well Flopsy has been in since last night and shes much better than she was. Infact she's been defending the new hay thing from everyone. She has been giving Orson a hard time but seems to be alot better now, she is a day behind the others in terms of having him in the cage.

I don't like having hay and pellets on every floor but they do. I am only doing it for a few days while they find their bearings.

I hope it carries on like it is right now, over the last couple of days things have improved.
 
Hi Lisa,

I'm just catching up with this thread :(!... Orson integrating into the group would be hard, but I'm so happy for you it seems to be turning it's self round and Orson is still standing his ground too... Hopefully they will be friends, in no time with him coming in from the outside.. the girls have to establish the pecking order so too speak! It's good there has been no blood drawn and they are sharing food! Long may it continue :)!

Sending positive friend vibes your way :)! xx
 
I think you can relax - Orson is busy settling in and carving out his position; if he's already standing up to the big girls without being taken down for it, they are way into sorting out the fine print of the contract.

With tribes and girls, any serious aggression usually shows right at the beginning; you're past that. While the top brass is probably still a bit grumpy, they have accepted him and will shake down over the the next few days.

As more and more girls come into season, they will spend one-on-one time with Orson. And while mating and courting doesn't look romantic to us, it will create a special connection between him and each of his girls.
 
I'm glad it seems to be working! Let's hope it was just get to know eachother issues! Please keep us updated! It's gone so fast, I remember the thread when you first got Orson!
 
skrikopanik said:
I'm glad it seems to be working! Let's hope it was just get to know eachother issues! Please keep us updated! It's gone so fast, I remember the thread when you first got Orson!
Click to expand...

I do too! It was such a shock and that was over 2 months ago now. It's gone so fast.

Well its still okay in the cage - I have just served dinner and everyone ate together. One of the girls chased off another girl and Orson carried on eating. I think that's ace.

I have been watching closely (infact it's been Guinea Pig TV in this house) and Flopsy and Orson have had a few encounters and no fights so I think they are calming down too!

I so so so hope it is working out fine print. I so want this to work!

Its been very stressful so far. I am having a few Vodkas tonight to relax!
 
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