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reducing calcium but not eliminating it

piggiemummy03x

piggiemummy03x

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hi all, hope you are well. so since my della had a bladder stone, i have been extremely careful with what i give to my girls. i went out straight away and bought the selective science grain free nuggets and now only feed them pepper, cucumber, green beans and coriander daily. i have tried to remove as much calcium as i possibly can but obviously completely removing calcium from their diet brings on a whole other lot of problems!

the reason for this post today is to see if i’ve possibly removed too much calcium and if it would be okay/safe to give them both forage bits with things like dandelion in, as a treat occasionally or if it just isn’t worth the risk as i’m already giving them the minimum amount of calcium they need to stay healthy in their nuggets and veggies? any advice or input is welcomed, i really do appreciate and listen to every one of you piggie mad parents!🥰❤️
 
I can see you are really thinking about the amount of calcium they are getting with good reason if as your little Della has already had a stone. It’s really a balancing act and not all stones are caused by calcium but oxiltates from things like root veggies can cause stones too. Genetic factors sometimes come into play as well, I believe, so it’s a tricky one. An occasional treat would be nice for them and is probably not going to create any harm. Do they like grass? A small amount of grass is tasty but give it sparingly first and see how they get on with it. Dandelion leaves do contain calcium like most greens, I tend to wash them under the tap and give them damp. Do you live in a hard water area, if so have you invested in a water filter?
 
Hi
Please leave out the green bean (it contains oxalates and should only be more in the way of a treat than a daily food) but add more lettuce (Romaine, gem) to the diet to encourage some stronger urination, which helps to prevent stones. I would also recommend to feed once weekly a 1 inch strip of greens because they contain important magnesium (which is not in pellets) but they are a milder relative of kale. If you feed only one 1 tablespoon of pellets a day then there is safe wiggle space to add it in. Keep in mind that weight for weight, even no added calcium pellets contain a lot more calcium than the same weight of kale. You can also vary your herbs for a wider range of trace elements, but use the stronger ones only sparingly and not all the time. Mine get the leftovers from a bag whenever I cook with parsley, basil, dill etc. or from the garden in summer but never more than once a week with the stronger herbs as they are higher in calcium.

You want to ideally feed a mix of watery veg and some mainly green veg that contain trace elements. Fresh green grass when in season (carefully introduced) is best but fresh dandelion in company if some fresh grass or other watery veg is also good because while it is higher in calcium, it is also a diuretic (i.e. it encourages peeing which helps to flush the bladder). Not being a good natural drinker (nothing you can do about that) can be one of the contributing factors in the formation of stones.
Please always introduce fresh foods in small quantities and as part of a food mix first to allow the gut microbiome to accustom to it and avert any major tummy upsets (both diarrhea and bloating).
Feeding Grass And Preparing Your Piggies For Lawn Time

Forage when in season is also recommended because it is closest to what the digestive system is laid out for. You may want to have a look at that chapter in our diet guide: Wild UK forage for guinea pigs
Please keep in mind that any dried forage is always somewhat higher in calcium due to the water but not the calcium evaporating.

I assume that you are filtering your water or using low calcium bottled water because especially in a hard water area, more calcium comes with the water than any other part of the diet?

Unfortunately, there are many factors that play into the formation of stones which we cannot control, like a genetic disposition or something going wrong with the complex absorption process. Since guinea pigs have a naturally highly alkaline urine, this makes them particularly prone to stones and infections in the urinary tract as a species; attempts to acidify the urine medically have not proven to be consistently successful.
 
Bill & Ted said:
I can see you are really thinking about the amount of calcium they are getting with good reason if as your little Della has already had a stone. It’s really a balancing act and not all stones are caused by calcium but oxiltates from things like root veggies can cause stones too. Genetic factors sometimes come into play as well, I believe, so it’s a tricky one. An occasional treat would be nice for them and is probably not going to create any harm. Do they like grass? A small amount of grass is tasty but give it sparingly first and see how they get on with it. Dandelion leaves do contain calcium like most greens, I tend to wash them under the tap and give them damp. Do you live in a hard water area, if so have you invested in a water filter?
Click to expand...
thanks for your reply.. i see! that’s brilliant, i will start feeding them the odd treat, i’ve got things like forage trays and bowls that are full of yummy bits but been too nervous to try them! yes they loved the grass when out on it for 15 mins in the summer, but now its wet and horrible i haven’t thought about grass, maybe i could pat it dry for them and give start giving them handfuls of grass each day.
yes we are hard water area but i already have a brita filter for my girls!
 
Wiebke said:
Hi
Please leave out the green bean (it contains oxalates and should only be more in the way of a treat than a daily food) but add more lettuce (Romaine, gem) to the diet to encourage some stronger urination, which helps to prevent stones. I would also recommend to feed once weekly a 1 inch strip of greens because they contain important magnesium (which is not in pellets) but they are a milder relative of kale. If you feed only one 1 tablespoon of pellets a day then there is safe wiggle space to add it in. Keep in mind that weight for weight, even no added calcium pellets contain a lot more calcium than the same weight of kale. You can also vary your herbs for a wider range of trace elements, but use the stronger ones only sparingly and not all the time. Mine get the leftovers from a bag whenever I cook with parsley, basil, dill etc. or from the garden in summer but never more than once a week with the stronger herbs as they are higher in calcium.

You want to ideally feed a mix of watery veg and some mainly green veg that contain trace elements. Fresh green grass when in season (carefully introduced) is best but fresh dandelion in company if some fresh grass or other watery veg is also good because while it is higher in calcium, it is also a diuretic (i.e. it encourages peeing which helps to flush the bladder). Not being a good natural drinker (nothing you can do about that) can be one of the contributing factors in the formation of stones.
Please always introduce fresh foods in small quantities and as part of a food mix first to allow the gut microbiome to accustom to it and avert any major tummy upsets (both diarrhea and bloating).
Feeding Grass And Preparing Your Piggies For Lawn Time

Forage when in season is also recommended because it is closest to what the digestive system is laid out for. You may want to have a look at that chapter in our diet guide: Wild UK forage for guinea pigs
Please keep in mind that any dried forage is always somewhat higher in calcium due to the water but not the calcium evaporating.

I assume that you are filtering your water or using low calcium bottled water because especially in a hard water area, more calcium comes with the water than any other part of the diet?

Unfortunately, there are many factors that play into the formation of stones which we cannot control, like a genetic disposition or something going wrong with the complex absorption process. Since guinea pigs have a naturally highly alkaline urine, this makes them particularly prone to stones and infections in the urinary tract as a species; attempts to acidify the urine medically have not proven to be consistently successful.
Click to expand...
hiya,
oh gosh i didn’t realise! i took this recommend veggie diet from another piggy parent whose also had a piggie with a stone, i will cut the green beans out straight away (we don’t eat them anyway so 90% the bag goes to waste at the end of the week anyway!) i will definitely add some lettuce, slowly to start out of corse, once used to it, is a leaf of lettuce each suitable or should it be more like half each? also should lettuce be fed daily or keep it to ever other? what greens would you recommend? do you find one is more popular with your pigs than another?


yes my girls get 15 nuggets each per day. its a shame we don’t use any herbs, even the coriander ends up wilting on the window cill as its only bought for the pigs!

so add some fresh greens, should this be daily too? and ill start picking some grass again and just drying it off before giving to the girls.

i’ve got lots of dried forage bits from christmas haha just been too scared to give them any!

yep water is filtered through a brita filter, i really appreciated your help and advice, my girls are going to love the fact i can now change up their diet a bit and start giving them some forage bits and fresh grass once again! are dandelion leaves recommended to still feed then just in very small amounts and maybe once a week or should i not bother?
 
piggiemummy03x said:
hiya,
oh gosh i didn’t realise! i took this recommend veggie diet from another piggy parent whose also had a piggie with a stone, i will cut the green beans out straight away (we don’t eat them anyway so 90% the bag goes to waste at the end of the week anyway!) i will definitely add some lettuce, slowly to start out of corse, once used to it, is a leaf of lettuce each suitable or should it be more like half each? also should lettuce be fed daily or keep it to ever other? what greens would you recommend? do you find one is more popular with your pigs than another?


yes my girls get 15 nuggets each per day. its a shame we don’t use any herbs, even the coriander ends up wilting on the window cill as its only bought for the pigs!

so add some fresh greens, should this be daily too? and ill start picking some grass again and just drying it off before giving to the girls.

i’ve got lots of dried forage bits from christmas haha just been too scared to give them any!

yep water is filtered through a brita filter, i really appreciated your help and advice, my girls are going to love the fact i can now change up their diet a bit and start giving them some forage bits and fresh grass once again! are dandelion leaves recommended to still feed then just in very small amounts and maybe once a week or should i not bother?
Click to expand...

A lettuce leaf each is fine.
Spring greens is a little once a week

Could you try growing herbs yourself? They are easy and means they don’t go to waste!

Dandelion is a little higher in calcium. It’s fine to feed through
 
p
Piggies&buns said:
A lettuce leaf each is fine.
Spring greens is a little once a week

Could you try growing herbs yourself? They are easy and means they don’t go to waste!

Dandelion is a little higher in calcium. It’s fine to feed through
Click to expand...

absolutely brilliant! thanks so much, i actually bought my boyfriend a herb growing kit for christmas so thats a fab idea!
 
'Keep everything flushing through' is our motto so it's worth having a look at where your water bottles are positioned. We have 5 between 3 pigs (I know, I know) but one is really popular and one is never touched (!?)
The popular one is next to a 'bedroom' and a food bowl so it's used whenever a pig is eating their pellet tea and also through the night - usually by fat Louise who stakes out that corner to sleep and has only to stick her head out to drink. We can hear her chugging. We added another bottle to the other side of the pellet bowl and actually that has also started to be used at pellet time if a second pig is sharing the bowl. I didn't think they'd want it as it's old and plastic and a bit drippy (the others are fancy glass ones) but it's in the right place at the right time it seems. In the past I was really only thinking about how much they drank in the day but of course they nibble round the clock so having the bottles close to the bedroom areas means they can easily access a drink at night.
 
Free Ranger said:
'Keep everything flushing through' is our motto so it's worth having a look at where your water bottles are positioned. We have 5 between 3 pigs (I know, I know) but one is really popular and one is never touched (!?)
The popular one is next to a 'bedroom' and a food bowl so it's used whenever a pig is eating their pellet tea and also through the night - usually by fat Louise who stakes out that corner to sleep and has only to stick her head out to drink. We can hear her chugging. We added another bottle to the other side of the pellet bowl and actually that has also started to be used at pellet time if a second pig is sharing the bowl. I didn't think they'd want it as it's old and plastic and a bit drippy (the others are fancy glass ones) but it's in the right place at the right time it seems. In the past I was really only thinking about how much they drank in the day but of course they nibble round the clock so having the bottles close to the bedroom areas means they can easily access a drink at night.
Click to expand...
great motto! haha its funny how they favourite certain items and ignore others🤣 great advice thankyou!
 
hi everyone, sorry to jump back on the post, just after a bit of advice please! della has started some meds to help clear what we hope is just a UTI, i was wondering if lettuce or spring greens could have played a role in this or cause problems with certain guinea pigs? this is the only things we’ve done differently for the girls (lettuce each day and spring greens on sundays) so just wanted to check!

i am quite concerned i may not be giving them the best variety of veggies as i am so worried about stones, they currently eat pepper, cucumber and coriander, this weighs up to around 60-80g per day (that is for both pigs, so 30/40g a day each) and obviously was giving a bit of lettuce until della started showing signs of a UTI, i have now cut this out due to worry. do you think its safe to feed lettuce and its just a coincidence she’s developed a UTI around the same time or should i just avoid it all together now?
also, will just being fed 3 different vegetables/herbs be enough for them or do i need to add more? thankyou!
 
A UTI is a bacterial infection and highly unlikely to be caused by anything she has eaten.
It sounds like an unfortunate coincidence to be honest.
Has it been confirmed as a UTI with a urine test or is it just 'possible' at this stage.
 
Swissgreys said:
A UTI is a bacterial infection and highly unlikely to be caused by anything she has eaten.
It sounds like an unfortunate coincidence to be honest.
Has it been confirmed as a UTI with a urine test or is it just 'possible' at this stage.
Click to expand...
thats great thank you so much for confirming, i did think this was the case but thought id ask just to be sure. no urine test was performed, i think the vet said as she had stones before its just best to treat her with some antibiotics and pain meds and have been told if in a weeks time she isn’t better she will have to go in for a scan.
 
Piggies&buns said:
:agr:
A UTI is caused by fecal bacteria getting into the urinary tract and is nothing to do with what they’ve eaten
Click to expand...
thank you! so i should be fine to carry on with lettuce?

unfortunately we have noticed, both the girl’s actually, like to wipe themselves after having a wee so i believe this could have maybe played a role in it?
 
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