Red / orange wee

[Tilly_bee]

Hello, I am new here (sorry if I’m posting in the wrong place)

One of my my guinea pigs has been treated for a UTI on and off for the last three months.

At first I noticed her crying while weeing, and later on I started seeing the orange wee (not sure when)

I took her to the vet, they took a pee sample (which looked normal), and sent it to be tested. And put her on antibiotics (the pink stuff)
Results after a week at the lab: couple different bacteria were found.

Then she got better.

then she started crying again and she got treated with the same stuff.

She got better…

Then she started crying again (no orange wee) so I took her to the vet… She had an X-ray that ruled out any stones, and she was put on a different antibiotic.

(It’s been about a week) and she has not been crying, but I have been finding red / orange wee, even darker than before.
Today I included a pic of a patch of wee in an update email to my vet, and they emailed me back saying she needed to come in to get an ultrasound.

(Apart from the color of her wee she is her normal happy chatty self)

I couldn’t take her today, and I have class all week, but, I’m struggling to make a decision because, If she gets an ultrasound, and they find a tumor or something, I don’t think I will be able to pay for the surgery… on top of the $600 - $800 (Australian) ultrasound cost.

I want to do the best for my piggy, but I don’t think I can afford all the vet bills.

She is a 2ish year old female.
I also have one other female, and a neutered male.

At some point in all this, to check if it was actually one of my other pigs wee, by I swabbing the fur around their bums with a q-tip because their dark fur could be hiding stains, but they were fine.

I’ve read that antibiotics can cause red / orange wee but I’m not sure.

I’ve also read that male pigs can do weird orange wee, but from a patch of “defensive” wee I don’t think it’s from my boy.

Sorry if this is confusing to read, I’m dyslexic, and also very tired.

Thanks in advance

 

[Tilly_bee]

I have recorded the sound she made but I couldn’t post the files

What I mean by “defensive wee”
When female piggies use pee as a defensive weapon against another pig.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi and welcome

Could your girl have a sterile cystitis instead of a bacterial urine infection? The latter is managed with glucosamine (not classed as a medication) and with a painkiller (usually metacam, which you would have to get from your vet.

Sterile cystitis (or by its old name: interstitial cystitis/IC) is now by far the most common urinary tract infection, especially in indoors guinea pigs. It very often presents as a recurring/chronic UTI (bacterial urine infection) that cannot be healed by antibiotics. The intensely red/orange urine is actually a natural dye (porphyrin) although blood can be present but it would take a lot more than there is to make the urine look pink.

Here is more information about it: Wiebke's Guide to Pees and Stones

I think that at this stage it would be worth considering it. Unfortunately, sterile IC can only be managed but not healed but in the lower to mid-range it is manageable and may even go away on its eventually - although that is more a matter of years than months.

 

[Tilly_bee]

Hi and welcome

Could your girl have a sterile cystitis instead of a bacterial urine infection? The latter is managed with glucosamine (not classed as a medication) and with a painkiller (usually metacam, which you would have to get from your vet.

Sterile cystitis (or by its old name: interstitial cystitis/IC) is now by far the most common urinary tract infection, especially in indoors guinea pigs. It very often presents as a recurring/chronic UTI (bacterial urine infection) that cannot be healed by antibiotics. The intensely red/orange urine is actually a natural dye (porphyrin) although blood can be present but it would take a lot more than there is to make the urine look pink.

Here is more information about it: Wiebke's Guide to Pees and Stones

I think that at this stage it would be worth considering it. Unfortunately, sterile IC can only be managed but not healed but in the lower to mid-range it is manageable and may even go away on its eventually - although that is more a matter of years than months.

Thank you!

I’ll have a better read of it tomorrow, but things are already making sense!

“It seems to mainly affect guinea pigs with a high stress default setting”
my piggy is so shy in comparison with my other pigs.

Again thank you so much!

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you!

I’ll have a better read of it tomorrow, but things are already making sense!

“It seems to mainly affect guinea pigs with a high stress default setting”
my piggy is so shy in comparison with my other pigs.

Again thank you so much!

We are here for any further questions and concerns and practical how-to tips as you go along. Just please keep them all to this your personalised support thread which we can run for as long as needed.

For picking up your support thread easily again we recommend bookmarking it. It helps all of us to keep all information on an ongoing case together without you having to retell the whole saga again but it also provides people who like to do forum searches with whole real-life cases as they develop (including outcomes if we get to hear back), which are hard to find elsewhere.
Sterile cystitis comes in the whole bandwidth so every case is a bit different. The majority of cases we see on here are thankfully in the milder to medium range, which is where yours will be as well if it is confirmed - they are the ones that still react to antibiotic and can be temporarily suppressed but not cured by it.

 

[Tilly_bee]

We are here for any further questions and concerns and practical how-to tips as you go along. Just please keep them all to this your personalised support thread which we can run for as long as needed.

For picking up your support thread easily again we recommend bookmarking it. It helps all of us to keep all information on an ongoing case together without you having to retell the whole saga again but it also provides people who like to do forum searches with whole real-life cases as they develop (including outcomes if we get to hear back), which are hard to find elsewhere.
Sterile cystitis comes in the whole bandwidth so every case is a bit different. The majority of cases we see on here are thankfully in the milder to medium range, which is where yours will be as well if it is confirmed - they are the ones that still react to antibiotic and can be temporarily suppressed but not cured by it.

How should I go about asking my vet about this?

My mum thinks I shouldn’t because “you don’t want to tell the vet how to do her job”.

But my mum also agrees with the possibility that it is Sterile cystitis, so she might not be thinking it through.

Does my vet need to rule out tumors or other issues by getting an ultrasound done, before she can consider Sterile cystitis? or might she just not know about it?

So far I’ve only listened to my vet, never suggested anything, and I don’t really know what the appropriate procedure is.

(I’m not really sure what bookmarking is, I hope I’ve done it right)

 

[Wiebke]

How should I go about asking my vet about this?

My mum thinks I shouldn’t because “you don’t want to tell the vet how to do her job”.

But my mum also agrees with the possibility that it is Sterile cystitis, so she might not be thinking it through.

Does my vet need to rule out tumors or other issues by getting an ultrasound done, before she can consider Sterile cystitis? or might she just not know about it?

So far I’ve only listened to my vet, never suggested anything, and I don’t really know what the appropriate procedure is.

(I’m not really sure what bookmarking is, I hope I’ve done it right)

You can start by asking her politely whether she has heard that guinea pigs can have a sterile cystitis that is comparable to that of cats (including treatment, apart from that cat pheromones don't work on guinea pigs) and that it has become increasingly common in especially indoors piggies with a high stress default due to the commercial mass breeding.
And that since your piggy is by far the most nervous of yours by far and the antibiotics seem to not be working, whether your vet thinks it might be worth taking into consideration as the next possible option?

Your vet can still say no but you are not going to offend her if you pose the question as a very polite suggestion in a way that fully respects her professional knowledge and judgment. I usually do it like this if

You can take the link to that article if you wish to in case your vet has not heard of it. The presence of some bacteria can sometimes mask sterile IC initially so your vet hasn't made any mistake. Sterile cystitis is often diagnosed by default after all the other potential urinary tract have been excluded.

Wishing you all and your girl all the best!

 

[Tilly_bee]

(not sure if this is how to add to a thread)
I'm taking my piggy off the antibiotics because my vet said to stop a few days after she can pee without crying.

But her pee is still deep orange.
I’ll document any color change, to see if it might have been caused by the antibiotics
(I’ve heard that it can cause dark pee, but idk)
I’ll also weigh her more frequently from now on.

Pic below is from today (honestly scared me)
Also, Ive noticed that her poo has gotten smaller, and lighter.
my vet says it’s probably because of the antibiotics.

 

[sport_billy]

(not sure if this is how to add to a thread)
I'm taking my piggy off the antibiotics because my vet said to stop a few days after she can pee without crying.

But her pee is still deep orange.
I’ll document any color change, to see if it might have been caused by the antibiotics
(I’ve heard that it can cause dark pee, but idk)
I’ll also weigh her more frequently from now on.

Pic below is from today (honestly scared me)
Also, Ive noticed that her poo has gotten smaller, and lighter.
my vet says it’s probably because of the antibiotics.

Is the wee coming out that colour or turning to that colour do you know?

 

[Tilly_bee]

Is the wee coming out that colour or turning to that colour do you know?

I’m not sure, but I have seen her pee, and it looked normal, It also looked normal when my vet made her pee for testing.

I’ll clean the cage today, and separate her, so I can get a better idea of what’s going on.

Pic is from the last time I separated her

 

[weepweeps]

Bless them

I hope she’s feeling better soon.

 

[Tilly_bee]

I don’t want to jinx it, but…. after a couple days off the strong antibiotics, I haven’t seen any dark orange wee.
The first day it was a little orange / red, but way lighter.
She hasn’t been crying for a while now.
I’ll let my vet know, and I’ll post any update here

 

[Truffolo]

She's very pretty, I hope things work out and she is OK

 

[Tilly_bee]

I saw Sweet pea wee, so I put it aside to see if it would oxidize.
I should have taken a before pic, but it definitely changed from normal clear wee to orange.
(no pain while peeing yet)

 

[Tilly_bee]

I saw Sweet pea wee, so I sucked it up with a syringe to observe and document how it oxidizes in a jar.

in the morning when I picked the jar the top liquid layer rolled off, and left behind a white slightly grainy sludge, I assume its calcium, and maybe the grainy bits are responsible for her discomfort?
But she hasn’t been crying.

I’m actually doing a laboratory operations course at the moment, which is training me to do work like this, so all this is very interesting to me