Recurring UTIs

[Stockyanna]

Hi. Was wondering if anybody can help please. I have a sow that is diabetic and constantly gets a UTI the minute I take her off antibiotics. I’ve not been happy about keeping her on the Sulfatrim permantely but it was the only thing to stop it keep coming back and it never upset her, but my biggest nightmare has happened. She’s obviously become immune to it, which i knew would always happen one day. I use megazorb in their main bed area topped with hay and I change the hay out fully twice a day and put down clean mats and megazorb half way through the week. The vet said she is just prone because of the diabetes picking up infections easier. She’s on glipizide for the diabetes too.

Does anybody have any ideas how I can treat this naturally please? I’m at a loss, I really am. She can’t live the rest of her life out soaked through. She’s less than 2. It costs £50 a month too just for the probiotics so would be good to avoid that too. I’d rather be putting the money towards something natural.

I changed her diet obviously cutting out sugary items. I daily forage grass, dandelions and sow thistles. Just don’t know what else to try.

Would I need another type of antibiotic, and then perhaps try a natural supplement to keep it at bay?

Thanks in advance, Anna

 

[Wiebke]

Hi. Was wondering if anybody can help please. I have a sow that is diabetic and constantly gets a UTI the minute I take her off antibiotics. I’ve not been happy about keeping her on the Sulfatrim permantely but it was the only thing to stop it keep coming back and it never upset her, but my biggest nightmare has happened. She’s obviously become immune to it, which i knew would always happen one day. I use megazorb in their main bed area topped with hay and I change the hay out fully twice a day and put down clean mats and megazorb half way through the week. The vet said she is just prone because of the diabetes picking up infections easier. She’s on glipizide for the diabetes too.

Does anybody have any ideas how I can treat this naturally please? I’m at a loss, I really am. She can’t live the rest of her life out soaked through. She’s less than 2. It costs £50 a month too just for the probiotics so would be good to avoid that too. I’d rather be putting the money towards something natural.

I changed her diet obviously cutting out sugary items. I daily forage grass, dandelions and sow thistles. Just don’t know what else to try.

Would I need another type of antibiotic, and then perhaps try a natural supplement to keep it at bay?

Thanks in advance, Anna

Hi and welcome

Has your vet checked whether your girl is having a bacterial urine infection or rather a sterile (i.e. non-bacterial) interstitial cystitis? The latter has become a lot more common over the last 15 years but is hardly known outside vet circles that don't see many guinea pigs. Sterile IC is characterised by no or only a very low count of bacteria in the urine and can at the best only temporarily be suppressed but not healed by antibiotics for this reason.

The management of sterile IC in guinea pigs follows that of FSC (Feline sterile cystitis). Since it seems to mainly affect the natural glucosamine coating of the urinary tract, glucosamine (which is not classed as a medication but as a food supplement) is the main treatment; in mild to medium cases it can be given orally. In stronger cases, cartrofen has been shown to also work for guinea pigs in more recent research. This in combination with an analgesic. The glucosamine may take a few weeks to build up.

Once you have got initially under control, you are facing regular flare-ups every few weeks/months (that is the 'interstitial' bit). Since sterile IC can vary enormously in strength, you will have to work out with your vet who ow you can go with the maintenance dosage in between flares and how high you need to go to get symptoms under control again during a flare. Sterile IC cannot be healed but in milder to medium cases it can eventually go away on its own - more in the matter of years than months, unfortunately. In your case, the diabetes may play into it as it impacts on the immune system. Sterile IC is usually diagnosed rather by default after all other problems with the urinary have been excluded since symptoms are very similar. The onset of a flare is generally characterised by intensely red porphyrine coloured pees that look like blood but may or may not contain any plus the usual squeaking when peeing and pooing.

Here is some more information: Links - Interstitial Cystitis - Guinea Lynx Records

Sterile IC would be your next avenue to pursue with your vet if antibiotics are not helping. I am very sorry about your desperation, having had 'resistant' piggies before IC became actually a defined illness... I really wish that it became more widely known since it is now much more common in indoors piggies than a UTI.

 

[Stockyanna]

Hi and welcome

Has your vet checked whether your girl is having a bacterial urine infection or rather a sterile (i.e. non-bacterial) interstitial cystitis? The latter has become a lot more common over the last 15 years but is hardly known outside vet circles that don't see many guinea pigs. Sterile IC is characterised by no or only a very low count of bacteria in the urine and can at the best only temporarily be suppressed but not healed by antibiotics for this reason.

The management of sterile IC in guinea pigs follows that of FSC (Feline sterile cystitis). Since it seems to mainly affect the natural glucosamine coating of the urinary tract, glucosamine (which is not classed as a medication but as a food supplement) is the main treatment; in mild to medium cases it can be given orally. In stronger cases, cartrofen has been shown to also work for guinea pigs in more recent research. This in combination with an analgesic. The glucosamine may take a few weeks to build up.

Once you have got initially under control, you are facing regular flare-ups every few weeks/months (that is the 'interstitial' bit). Since sterile IC can vary enormously in strength, you will have to work out with your vet who ow you can go with the maintenance dosage in between flares and how high you need to go to get symptoms under control again during a flare. Sterile IC cannot be healed but in milder to medium cases it can eventually go away on its own - more in the matter of years than months, unfortunately. In your case, the diabetes may play into it as it impacts on the immune system. Sterile IC is usually diagnosed rather by default after all other problems with the urinary have been excluded since symptoms are very similar. The onset of a flare is generally characterised by intensely red porphyrine coloured pees that look like blood but may or may not contain any plus the usual squeaking when peeing and pooing.

Here is some more information: Links - Interstitial Cystitis - Guinea Lynx Records

Sterile IC would be your next avenue to pursue with your vet if antibiotics are not helping. I am very sorry about your desperation, having had 'resistant' piggies before IC became actually a defined illness... I really wish that it became more widely known since it is now much more common in indoors piggies than a UTI.

Hi. Thank you so much for your very detailed message back. Nothing has been sent off to be tested no. All they did was test with a urine stick. I tested her a couple of days ago 4 times across 2 wees and no indication of blood in the wee. However the leukocytes were high and aren’t normally. When I researched it said it was either white blood cells or urinary tract infection. It looked like her wee had red in it, or at least dark, but I could be mistaken. But definitely no blood result.

I did used to have an old girl that had IC and i used to treat her with glucosamine too. It just kept her more comfortable. Must admit I haven’t tried it on this one just because the vet said UTI and symptoms are very different. My flossy used to cry when she peed. Lottie, this one, I have never heard cry. She doesn’t seem in discomfort. She’s just soaked on her back end and reeks of wee.

The thing is the sulfatrim has kept it completely at bay for about 1.5 years so that makes me feel it’s more bacterial than IC just because it was working so well. One vet I saw (Kim at cat and rabbit) did say eventually she’ll become immune so I knew it would happen eventually (and been dreading it).

All this hasn’t come at a good time for me as I am currently laid up with suspected herniated discs on my back so would be tricky to take her anywhere at the moment. I shall put a call into my vet tomorrow. She’s pretty cavy savy.

Would you mind explaining about the analgesic please? What would I need to do about that?

 

[Stockyanna]

I ordered these thinking this may be a more natural way of keeping it at bay but they weren’t quite what I was expecting. I thought they’d be a tablet that I could add water and syringe in. They sent a bag of like hay biscuits which I know she won’t eat

 

[Princess Dustmop]

An analgesic would usually be something like the meloxicam, which is an NSAID. There may be others, as well, but I think that's the most common.

Leukocytes are white blood cells, thus a key component if the immune system, hence why their presence can be an indicator of infection. They can also be present without infection, though, so are not definitive on their own. Their presence could also be indicative of inflammation (such as IC) or kidney stones. The only sure indicator of an infection is for the vet to do a urinalysis or urine culture. A urinalysis involves just testing and looking at the urine ... some of that is the chemical tests, such as the test for leukocytes, but it can also involve microscopy and actually looking for whether there are bacteria present. A urine culture is the next step past that and involves preparing the sample with the intent to grow any bacteria that may be present; this is helpful in diagnosing an infection with a sparser population of bacteria, that may be missed during microscopic viewing, and allows for sensitivity testing or the grown bacteria to assure that an antibiotic with the correct treatment spectrum is prescribed.

Without seeing the urine, it's hard for us to say what the color means, but urine does oxidize, so dark or orangey color could look like a tinge of blood but actually just be more concentrated and oxidized urine.

Has the vet done a radiograph to check for stones? Or an ultrasound to check for inflammation/thickening of the bladder wall?

If Bactrim isn't effective, I can think of a few possibilities: 1. Nonbacterial issue. (IC or stone/sludge come to my mind) 2. Acquired resistance, as you feared might occur. 3. Need a different antibiotic spectrum.
If it is a UTI and falls under 2 or 3, it's possible a different antibiotic could be effective. A urine culture would give more answers, but Baytril is the other typical go-to antibiotic for piggy infections.


One of my RB girls had semi-diagnosed IC but also got UTIs mixed into that. It was never formally called IC by the vet, only noted that sometimes her "pink spots" were a uti and sometimes they were sterile. (I put together the label of IC based on my knowledge of IC in human medicine.) We were fortunate enough that her flare interval was around 6 months to a year (every winter, December or early January ... usually a frigid weekend or Holiday; sometimes mid-summer). She'd get a pink spot or two if there was a stressor, as well, but it would resolve within a day. We'd just bring her into the vet if the pink spots lasts more than 12 hours. It was about 50/50 on whether there was a UTI with the flare, so she generally got a course of Baytril regardless. We did urinalysis on some of them, but after the first several, it was pretty much just standard longish course of Baytril and lack of improvement indicated a nonbacterial affliction.
We had another piggy that was diabetic ... I don't recall what medication she was on for it, unfortunately, as it was like 20 years ago. I do recall that she occasionally also required antibiotics for UTIs and some pill for stones ... I'm afraid I can't recall what that was either (the pill popper was memorable; the pill was not). Sorry that's probably not much help.

 

[Stockyanna]

An analgesic would usually be something like the meloxicam, which is an NSAID. There may be others, as well, but I think that's the most common.

Leukocytes are white blood cells, thus a key component if the immune system, hence why their presence can be an indicator of infection. They can also be present without infection, though, so are not definitive on their own. Their presence could also be indicative of inflammation (such as IC) or kidney stones. The only sure indicator of an infection is for the vet to do a urinalysis or urine culture. A urinalysis involves just testing and looking at the urine ... some of that is the chemical tests, such as the test for leukocytes, but it can also involve microscopy and actually looking for whether there are bacteria present. A urine culture is the next step past that and involves preparing the sample with the intent to grow any bacteria that may be present; this is helpful in diagnosing an infection with a sparser population of bacteria, that may be missed during microscopic viewing, and allows for sensitivity testing or the grown bacteria to assure that an antibiotic with the correct treatment spectrum is prescribed.

Without seeing the urine, it's hard for us to say what the color means, but urine does oxidize, so dark or orangey color could look like a tinge of blood but actually just be more concentrated and oxidized urine.

Has the vet done a radiograph to check for stones? Or an ultrasound to check for inflammation/thickening of the bladder wall?

If Bactrim isn't effective, I can think of a few possibilities: 1. Nonbacterial issue. (IC or stone/sludge come to my mind) 2. Acquired resistance, as you feared might occur. 3. Need a different antibiotic spectrum.
If it is a UTI and falls under 2 or 3, it's possible a different antibiotic could be effective. A urine culture would give more answers, but Baytril is the other typical go-to antibiotic for piggy infections.


One of my RB girls had semi-diagnosed IC but also got UTIs mixed into that. It was never formally called IC by the vet, only noted that sometimes her "pink spots" were a uti and sometimes they were sterile. (I put together the label of IC based on my knowledge of IC in human medicine.) We were fortunate enough that her flare interval was around 6 months to a year (every winter, December or early January ... usually a frigid weekend or Holiday; sometimes mid-summer). She'd get a pink spot or two if there was a stressor, as well, but it would resolve within a day. We'd just bring her into the vet if the pink spots lasts more than 12 hours. It was about 50/50 on whether there was a UTI with the flare, so she generally got a course of Baytril regardless. We did urinalysis on some of them, but after the first several, it was pretty much just standard longish course of Baytril and lack of improvement indicated a nonbacterial affliction.
We had another piggy that was diabetic ... I don't recall what medication she was on for it, unfortunately, as it was like 20 years ago. I do recall that she occasionally also required antibiotics for UTIs and some pill for stones ... I'm afraid I can't recall what that was either (the pill popper was memorable; the pill was not). Sorry that's probably not much help.

Thank you so much for your response. I have just got off the phone to the vet actually and I’m taking her on Monday and we are going to a proper urine analysis to see what type of bacteria it is. I will read your message out to her though as she’s always keen to learn more I find. She had an x ray last year to make sure there was nothing else going on, and they said she looked normal, no thickening or stones.

What worries me the most is putting her on antibiotics and clearing it up, but as soon as I take her off, it will just return. The fact that the sulfatrim did keep it completely at bay for the last year, makes me think that it is more infection than cystitis and she has now built up a resistance to the antibiotic. I guess I was just hoping there was something natural I could give her, once we have cleared it. I don’t really know how you deal with it if it’s permantely there. She doesn’t seem at all stressed by it. I’ve never heard her cry when weeing. She’s still eating me out of house and home so appetite unaffected. I just can’t leave her like that and worry what will happen after we clear this up.

My piggy before with IC was never soaked like this. She would just wimper when she peed. Glucosamine helped with that but she was never soaked like Lottie is.

I’ll get the tests done Monday and go from there but thank you for your advice. I will relay that all to my vet.

Thanks, Anna

 

[ceciliaxdee]

I have a piggie who has IC for 1.5 years now. It was diagnosed after a long course of Septrin wouldn’t clear it up and we had her urine cultured and it came back sterile. After trying a bunch of things, the two vitamins that keep it managed are glucosamine and d mannose under the guidance of my exotic vet. They work so well to manage hers that I rarely have to give meloxicam unless it is a bad flare. I’ve actually tried to wean her off either vitamin but she starts squeaking when peeing within a day or so when I try to stop them so it definitely works for her!
We definitely have to keep an eye on it as she did relapse sometime last year where it turned into a bacterial UTI again, so when there’s a bad flare noticeably more blood, it’s just taking her back to get urine tested. Septrin does get rid of the bacteria in that case but then the IC will still be there after and that’s where the management of symptoms and making her comfortable with the vitamins has been key. Hope your piggie feels better soon and you have some answers!

 

[Stockyanna]

I have a piggie who has IC for 1.5 years now. It was diagnosed after a long course of Septrin wouldn’t clear it up and we had her urine cultured and it came back sterile. After trying a bunch of things, the two vitamins that keep it managed are glucosamine and d mannose under the guidance of my exotic vet. They work so well to manage hers that I rarely have to give meloxicam unless it is a bad flare. I’ve actually tried to wean her off either vitamin but she starts squeaking when peeing within a day or so when I try to stop them so it definitely works for her!
We definitely have to keep an eye on it as she did relapse sometime last year where it turned into a bacterial UTI again, so when there’s a bad flare noticeably more blood, it’s just taking her back to get urine tested. Septrin does get rid of the bacteria in that case but then the IC will still be there after and that’s where the management of symptoms and making her comfortable with the vitamins has been key. Hope your piggie feels better soon and you have some answers!

Thank you. Yes I had something similar with one of my senior piggies. I had her on glucosamine too which seemed to help. The vet tried a human uti antibiotic but that hasn’t touched it so we are now giving her injections like cystease (she didn’t call it thay) once a month, but weekly for the first month. She had her first last night. But I will mention to her what you have suggested thanks. I have a feeling this may not work but it was only done last night. Thanks for your info