Recurring bladder issues

[Puddles1999]

Hi everyone.

Penelope has been having off and on UTI’s for a while now. A month ago I took her to the vet and had her bladder expressed as I thought she may have another uti. I guess her bladder was very very inflamed & painful as she was very vocal when having it expressed. She was in a lot of pain after that and she did have a uti.

We came home and was put on baytril for 10 days(to see if that would work better.) She still had an uti and then switched to Bactrim again for another 10 days so back to back on antibiotics. Her poops started looking softer and she was lifting her butt to poop & was vocal when peeing. She was also peeing out quite a lot of sludge deposits.

Fast forward to this past week or so. The bladder issue hasn’t really went away fully. Her urine doesn’t have the same smell as it does when she has a uti and she’s peeing sludge out occasionally. However, she still lifts her butt to poop sometimes & is still vocal when peeing. Her poops are also dark brown/black and some are misshapen and some are normal. Some have will have a little piece of brown mucus on it too occasionally. She isn’t acting in pain just from day to day. She lays comfortably and isn’t losing weight. I just don’t know what to do. She’s on .12 meloxicam every 12 hours for pain/inflammation. I know it’s a low dose. The doctor wants me to give 0.2 every 24hrs and says every 12 is bad so I split her dosage.

I’m not sure she still has a uti. It really doesn’t smell like it (weird I know) but I’ve learned what her urine smells with bacteria. I don’t know if I should try putting her on antibiotics again for 10 days while I’m away. The only thing that was crossing my mind is maybe the uti or bladder inflammation from the sludge? Could that cause discomfort when peeing/pooping and misshapen/odd poops?

I also am going on a cruise leaving this weekend and am dropping her off tomorrow to stay with a tech from the vet for the week I’m away. I am so anxious to leave her.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear this.

Re the dosage. Splitting an already small dose is not recommended. Unfortunately 0.2ml every 24 hours is low but can’t be split in half to be every 12 as it basically then renders each half pretty useless. I would, in your case, actually give the 0.2ml every 24 hours.
Ideally, if she is exhibiting pain, then she would be on a higher dose twice a day anyway but there isn’t anything we can do about that.

So if she has sludge then that will be causing discomfort. It has to come out - either through her being able to pee it out if it isn’t too tightly packed or through more intervention/surgical means.
Make sure you check her diet isn’t too high in calcium. Pellets limited to one tablespoon per day, high calcium veggies limited, water filtered.
There is also the consideration that cutting calcium down to low can also cause sludge issues - the balance is still wrong, it’s just wrong in the other direction.

Thread 'Wiebke's Guide to Pees and Stones'

May 29, 2024

1 The Urinary Tract
2 Pees
- Water intake changes
- Pee discoloration
3 Infections
- Bacterial urine infection (UTI)
- Bacterial cystitis
- Sterile cystitis (interstitial cystitis or IC)
4 Stones, Sludge and Crystals
- Crystals, stones and sludge
- Stone and sludge removal
5 Kidneys...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 3
• Forum: Wiebke's Guides to the Body

 

[RosieLily]

I am so sorry, both my girls are bladder pigs and it's a struggle.


What has worked for Rosie and Lily:

When Rosie had a UTI she was on antibiotics for twice as long as your pigwig. I'd tried a shorter course prior and sure enough the UTI returned quite quickly, my exotic suggested the course should be rather long for the bad bacteria to be removed. I also supplied probiotics as well as anti-inflammatory painkillers, and a short course of extra vitamin C to help aid their immune system (not something to do long-term).

Both my girls are calcium sensitive and we had constant struggles with sludge. Their diet took ages to figure out. It's a process of elimination, and finding the right balance. Like said above, too little calcium is just as bad as too much.

Both girls now receive glucosamine daily and have for the last couple of weeks or so. It takes time to build up in their system, but it will help coat and protect the bladder wall. Lily is also showing very early symptoms of possible oncoming arthritis, glucosamine is also good for the joints so it's a win-win!

We had a clear-cut diagnosis and planned according to the pigs' needs. An ultrasound is what my vet used to check for any sludge and possible build-up.

 

[Puddles1999]

I’m sorry to hear this.

Re the dosage. Splitting an already small dose is not recommended. Unfortunately 0.2ml every 24 hours is low but can’t be split in half to be every 12 as it basically then renders each half pretty useless. I would, in your case, actually give the 0.2ml every 24 hours.
Ideally, if she is exhibiting pain, then she would be on a higher dose twice a day anyway but there isn’t anything we can do about that.

So if she has sludge then that will be causing discomfort. It has to come out - either through her being able to pee it out if it isn’t too tightly packed or through more intervention/surgical means.
Make sure you check her diet isn’t too high in calcium. Pellets limited to one tablespoon per day, high calcium veggies limited, water filtered.
There is also the consideration that cutting calcium down to low can also cause sludge issues - the balance is still wrong, it’s just wrong in the other direction.

Thread 'Wiebke's Guide to Pees and Stones'

May 29, 2024

1 The Urinary Tract
2 Pees
- Water intake changes
- Pee discoloration
3 Infections
- Bacterial urine infection (UTI)
- Bacterial cystitis
- Sterile cystitis (interstitial cystitis or IC)
4 Stones, Sludge and Crystals
- Crystals, stones and sludge
- Stone and sludge removal
5 Kidneys...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 3
• Forum: Wiebke's Guides to the Body

Thank you for the information regarding the meloxicam. I’ll start giving it to her every 24 hours. I know they metabolize it quickly so I wasn’t sure if giving it every 24 hours would make a difference for her either. She isn’t in pain just doing day to day stuff and lounging about. It’s just with going to the toilet and it doesn’t seem to be every single time.
She peed while I had her out for laptime and looks to be a small deposit of sludge. She was vocal while peeing and the first few poops right after were kinda misshaped with one having a bit of brown mucus. The poops after that were normal.

She doesn’t get pellets and she has always gotten filtered water. I am switching her veggies and trying different ones but it’s difficult with these poops. I’m sure they are caused from whatever is going on in the bladder (inflammation?) so I don’t know whether to keep giving her the veggies.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Every 12 hours is recommended but, as I say, with an already small dose spitting it can be a problem.

Pain in that area can be the cause of dodgy poops. I’ve also added in our poops guide so you can see what the different types can indicate

If she doesn’t directly have a gut problem ie out of balance gut bacteria then there isn’t a reason she can’t have veggies.
Finding what is going to work for her is she has a calcium issue is going to be your challenge.

I would also recommend glucosamine to help support her bladder lining. Its use takes several weeks to build up to work so it isn’t a quick fix to issues.

Thread 'Wiebke's Guide to Poops'

May 30, 2024

1 How the Digestive System Works
2 Poo Eating (Coprophagy)
3 Health Monitoring: Weighing vs. Poos Watching
- What does weighing do?
- What does the poop output tell you?
4 Minor Poop Issues
- How to deal with a minor tummy upset
- Funny poops: What do they mean?
- Caked on poops
5 Serious Diarrhoea
6 Impaction
7...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 3
• Forum: Wiebke's Guides to the Body

• 
• 

 

[Puddles1999]

I am so sorry, both my girls are bladder pigs and it's a struggle.


What has worked for Rosie and Lily:

When Rosie had a UTI she was on antibiotics for twice as long as your pigwig. I'd tried a shorter course prior and sure enough the UTI returned quite quickly, my exotic suggested the course should be rather long for the bad bacteria to be removed. I also supplied probiotics as well as anti-inflammatory painkillers, and a short course of extra vitamin C to help aid their immune system (not something to do long-term).

Both my girls are calcium sensitive and we had constant struggles with sludge. Their diet took ages to figure out. It's a process of elimination, and finding the right balance. Like said above, too little calcium is just as bad as too much.

Both girls now receive glucosamine daily and have for the last couple of weeks or so. It takes time to build up in their system, but it will help coat and protect the bladder wall. Lily is also showing very early symptoms of possible oncoming arthritis, glucosamine is also good for the joints so it's a win-win!

We had a clear-cut diagnosis and planned according to the pigs' needs. An ultrasound is what my vet used to check for any sludge and possible build-up.

I understand the struggle Penelope is around 5 1/2 and only recently started having bladder issues unfortunately.

That’s interesting about the antibiotics & a good idea. She was technically on antibiotics for 20 days. 10 baytril & 10 Bactrim. I don’t think she still has her uti but I’m not 100% sure.
I do know she’s been struggling with peeing out sludge recently. She didn’t pee out any sludge for a while yesterday but peed a small deposit today while I had her out. She talks/vocalizes when peeing & pooping occasionally. Did your piggies have discomfort when peeing/pooping with sludge?

I just recently started switching her veggies. She doesn’t get any pellets and has always had filtered water so I would think it would be a diet too low in calcium if anything.

I’ve been on the hunt for glucosamine for her. She has a little arthritis in her hips/back. However, being in the us it seems to be hard to find one. Which one do you give your piggies?

 

[Puddles1999]

Every 12 hours is recommended but, as I say, with an already small dose spitting it can be a problem.

Pain in that area can be the cause of dodgy poops. I’ve also added in our poops guide so you can see what the different types can indicate

If she doesn’t directly have a gut problem ie out of balance gut bacteria then there isn’t a reason she can’t have veggies.
Finding what is going to work for her is she has a calcium issue is going to be your challenge.

I would also recommend glucosamine to help support her bladder lining. Its use takes several weeks to build up to work so it isn’t a quick fix to issues.

Thread 'Wiebke's Guide to Poops'

May 30, 2024

1 How the Digestive System Works
2 Poo Eating (Coprophagy)
3 Health Monitoring: Weighing vs. Poos Watching
- What does weighing do?
- What does the poop output tell you?
4 Minor Poop Issues
- How to deal with a minor tummy upset
- Funny poops: What do they mean?
- Caked on poops
5 Serious Diarrhoea
6 Impaction
7...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 3
• Forum: Wiebke's Guides to the Body

• 
• 

I had a feeling the weird poops could be from the bladder issues/inflammation in there so that’s good to know. Her poops are also very dark for some reason.

I’m just not 100% sure what is the cause of the discomfort. Like I said, I don’t think it’s a uti any longer but I know sludge can be very uncomfortable. I will keep giving her veggies and meloxicam. I’m on the hunt for a glucosamine supplement. Without the uti, I really can’t do much other than pain meds and glucosamine & wet veg.

Would just like her to not be in discomfort when going to the toilet.

 

[Piggies&buns]

The other consideration (if the sludge isn’t considered to be bad enough to be a cause of issues), and everything else has been ruled out is sterile cystitis.
It presents are recurring UTIs but it is not caused by bacteria. Therefore antibiotics don’t work and won’t cure it.
There isn’t a treatment, just management - which is daily painkillers and glucosamine.
With IC, it’s thought that it is more changes to the diet which can cause a flare rather than the diet itself.

 

[RosieLily]

I understand the struggle Penelope is around 5 1/2 and only recently started having bladder issues unfortunately.

That’s interesting about the antibiotics & a good idea. She was technically on antibiotics for 20 days. 10 baytril & 10 Bactrim. I don’t think she still has her uti but I’m not 100% sure.
I do know she’s been struggling with peeing out sludge recently. She didn’t pee out any sludge for a while yesterday but peed a small deposit today while I had her out. She talks/vocalizes when peeing & pooping occasionally. Did your piggies have discomfort when peeing/pooping with sludge?

I just recently started switching her veggies. She doesn’t get any pellets and has always had filtered water so I would think it would be a diet too low in calcium if anything.

I’ve been on the hunt for glucosamine for her. She has a little arthritis in her hips/back. However, being in the us it seems to be hard to find one. Which one do you give your piggies?

Oh I am sorry, I missed you saying back-to-back antibiotics! It's Friday morning and end of the working week for me, the mind's mush :'). My Rosie had a 20-day course as well and for a UTI it did the trick.

My girls also did the bum thing and squeaked a lot when a sludge episode came on; very hard to witness. The sludge crystals can and do cause pain when a piggy goes "number 2" because of pressure, the weird shapes was also common for us. I immediately put them on pain killers and provided extra cucumber + washed, still wet romaine lettuce to help flush out the sludge. Extra floor time as well to keep their system moving, I feel like it helped. Good on the filtered water, my girls can't really have pellets either, even though they love them!

I'm all the way from the Baltics and also struggled with finding glucosamine, my vet gave me a brand meant for cats and dogs with adjusted quantities

Finding a good routine and treatment for a bladder pig is a taxing task but there can be a way. I'm not educated enough on bladder flushes, I just know the procedure exists and some pigs on the forum have gone through it. Probably a last resort kind of thing, your Penelope is also at a ripe age, bless her!

 

[Puddles1999]

Oh I am sorry, I missed you saying back-to-back antibiotics! It's Friday morning and end of the working week for me, the mind's mush :'). My Rosie had a 20-day course as well and for a UTI it did the trick.

My girls also did the bum thing and squeaked a lot when a sludge episode came on; very hard to witness. The sludge crystals can and do cause pain when a piggy goes "number 2" because of pressure, the weird shapes was also common for us. I immediately put them on pain killers and provided extra cucumber + washed, still wet romaine lettuce to help flush out the sludge. Extra floor time as well to keep their system moving, I feel like it helped. Good on the filtered water, my girls can't really have pellets either, even though they love them!

I'm all the way from the Baltics and also struggled with finding glucosamine, my vet gave me a brand meant for cats and dogs with adjusted quantities

Finding a good routine and treatment for a bladder pig is a taxing task but there can be a way. I'm not educated enough on bladder flushes, I just know the procedure exists and some pigs on the forum have gone through it. Probably a last resort kind of thing, your Penelope is also at a ripe age, bless her!

That’s okay! I understand that, Its been a really long week here lol. I don’t think she has a uti any more, hopefully .

As odd as it may be, that’s reassuring to hear. I was thinking the lifting butt up & discomfort while peeing & weird poops were due to the sludge but wasn’t 100% sure. I hate that she is in discomfort when going to the bathroom. Granted, she’s completely fine any other time and doesn’t seem to be in terrible amounts of pain but can tell it is uncomfortable for her. :/
How long did your piggie’s sludge episodes last? She’s been dealing with this for a while now combined with the uti.

I’ve recently switched her diet and started including cucumber. I’ve been wetting veg too to try and flush her bladder out but it hasn’t went away yet. She also gets daily floor time to help get her moving lol. Penelope also loves pellets. I’m sure she’s not too happy not getting them anymore lol.

It doesn’t seem like I can do too much for her other than pain support & glucosamine. I’ll keep up on her veggies for sure.

Yes! She’s definitely a little old lady but she still runs around like no tomorrow lol. I treat her like I would my human baby haha.

She also gets heart medication & when googled it said meloxicam does have some interactions with benezapril. I have no experience with meds that interact so not sure if I just give it to her at a later time. I hate to not give any pain medication.