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Recovering from pneumonia

Plien

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Hey there,

Last week my piggy Lily got very sick and ended up needing to stay in the hospital for two nights, she’s been home since tuesday afternoon and seems to be improving bit by bit. I’m still very worried and a bit unsure about some things, so I was hoping to see if anyone might have advice/insights to share.

Lily is 2 years and 3 months old, we adopted her from the rescue when she was about 10-12 weeks. She lives with Fiep (sow of 4,5 years) and Noah (neutered boar of 3,5 years). Last week friday I noticed she was being picky with veggies and her behaviour seemed a bit off, when weighing her we saw that she had gone from 980gr two weeks before to 860gr so we called the vet for an appointment asap which was saturday morning. And I started hand feeding pellet-mush.

The vet checked her eyes, nose, teeth, breathing, heart rate and temperature but could not find anything. At the vet her weight had dropped to 820gr and she wasn’t able to fully see Lily’s molars due to having lots of food in her mouth. The vet prescribed painkillers (metacam) and bowel meds (ciseral) and gave us selective recovery plus, she also planned in an appointment for monday early morning to check her teeth better and they’d prep for taking her in in case that would be needed for diagnostics/treatment.

Lily seemed to improve saturday, was eating a bit more and a bit more active. Unfortunately sunday she seemed very lethargic, late in the afternoon I noticed her breathing was suddenly really bad. She was wheezing very loudly to the point it sounded like hyperventilating, we called the emergency number and were told to bring her to the hospital. When we arrived she was brought to an oxygen cage while we’d wait ‘till the vet had time. The vet explained that it looked like she had a URI that had spread to her lungs, she now also had a fever and a lot of eye and nose discharge. Lily would stay overnight so she could get antibiotics and stay in the oxygen cage. The next morning we got an update that she had been relatively stable, the fever was a lot lower and her breathing had improved a bit but she was still in a critical phase and they were unsure if she’d reached the peak of the infection yet. So we decided to let her stay another night.

Tuesday morning we got the update that she was doing a bit better, they’d seen her nibble on a bit of hay and she was more receptive of recovery food. The fever had also fully gone down now. We were allowed to pick her up in the afternoon, she’d been prescribed additional medication (emperid for bowels and doxybactin as antibiotics). We were told to keep her separate from the other piggies and to see our own vet in a week to see how to proceed with meds and such. At home Lily almost immediately started eating, very little bits and very slow but she pretty much constantly nommed with some napping in between.

She has been improving bit by bit, her weight is slowly going up again. (wednesday 785, thursday 825, friday 837, saturday 868) She has been jncredibly difficult with taking meds and food, I’m not sure why other than that she’s always had a stubborn streak. Today it did seem to go a bit easier though. She’s been eating hay, pellets, dried herbs, veggies and every day she eats a bit more. She’s not been drinking a lot of water so I’ve been giving her cucumber to make sure she gets some fluids and she really likes them as well. Her breathing is a lot better, sometimes I hear a little snottyness but it passes quickly. She does still have discharge coming out of one eye and it was still a bit inflamed (conjunctivitis due to the infection is what the vet said) but the inflammation seems to be improving.

Currenty she is still separated from the others, we took Noah and Fiep to our vet on wednesday and they seem to be doing good other than having some bald spots for which we gave them ivectirmin and are keeping an eye on that. Lily seems quite lonely (and maybe a bit bored) she perks up listening very intently whenever she hears the others, I really dislike having her seperate but I am terrified of either Noah and Fiep getting infected or them re-infecting Lily. Logically I think that they’ve already been exposed so that it’d probably be fine, but both the hospital vet and our own vet strongly advised us to keep them apart. Personally the biggest thing I’m worried about is Lily‘s eye discharge, it‘s still coming out and it has a bit of a smell to it which makes me worried that it indeed might still be infectious. I’d love to hear what other think.

I’m sorry this got so long, I’ve been trying to write something the last few days but it always ends up becoming really long and mildly incoherent. Thank you so much for taking the time to read. I think I had more questions but I can’t think of them right now, I will also post an overview of the meds and doses she’s now taking later. Thank you.

Plien
 
Hi and welcome

I am very sorry for your fight but glad that Lily is slowly getting better. Regaining her appetite means that the need to breathe is no longer taking up all her energy and that she has increasingly more left for drinking and eating (the need to drink actually comes before the need to eat, so she will get enough fluid - keep in mind that there is quite a bit of water in the feeding formula). If you are worried, offer her water in a syringe during the support feeding, like we recommend.

Please manage the feeding support (especially the gliding scaling back) by weighing her first thing in the morning on your kitchen scales as the best time for a day to day comparison so you can plan how much or little to give in the next 24 hours. Once she has her appetite back, she will also start increasingly eating more hay (which makes over three quarters of what a piggy eats in a day); this will be reflected in her weight gain.
You can also consider switching to offer feeding top up in a bowl twice daily once she is more than 15 ml of feed in one go and see how that goes; she should by that stage have started to also eat hay again. That will take some pressure off you.

Please take the time to read the guide link below. You will find it very helpful since it contains all the practical advice and how-to tips on everything that has to do with medicating and feeding support, including weight monitoring and its crucial role during illness and recovery: All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

Exposure will have most likely happened right at the start but unless it is one of the really nasty bugs (thankfully rare), most healthy companions can usually fend respiratory off illness with their own immune response and direct infection is generally rare. Where we recommend separation is where any companions themselves have other health issues that may impact on the immune system and put them at risk.
But you can offer Lily a cosy that has been used by her mates to snuggle into as a bit of a stress reliever and replace it every day or two so the scent remains fresh. Your washing machine should take care of the other way round; most respiratory illness are transmitted by air and direct contact anyway.

All the best!

PS: Please keep any further questions and update to this your monitored ongoing support thread. Since we are all doing this for free in our own free time and none of us can always be around or read everything, we find it very helpful to run one thread for every ongoing case so everybody can catch up whenever they come on. Unlike social media, we can run our threads for as long as needed and give you our personalised support.
 
Hi and welcome

I am very sorry for your fight but glad that Lily is slowly getting better. Regaining her appetite means that the need to breathe is no longer taking up all her energy and that she has increasingly more left for drinking and eating (the need to drink actually comes before the need to eat, so she will get enough fluid - keep in mind that there is quite a bit of water in the feeding formula). If you are worried, offer her water in a syringe during the support feeding, like we recommend.

Please manage the feeding support (especially the gliding scaling back) by weighing her first thing in the morning on your kitchen scales as the best time for a day to day comparison so you can plan how much or little to give in the next 24 hours. Once she has her appetite back, she will also start increasingly eating more hay (which makes over three quarters of what a piggy eats in a day); this will be reflected in her weight gain.
You can also consider switching to offer feeding top up in a bowl twice daily once she is more than 15 ml of feed in one go and see how that goes; she should by that stage have started to also eat hay again. That will take some pressure off you.

Please take the time to read the guide link below. You will find it very helpful since it contains all the practical advice and how-to tips on everything that has to do with medicating and feeding support, including weight monitoring and its crucial role during illness and recovery: All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

Exposure will have most likely happened right at the start but unless it is one of the really nasty bugs (thankfully rare), most healthy companions can usually fend respiratory off illness with their own immune response and direct infection is generally rare. Where we recommend separation is where any companions themselves have other health issues that may impact on the immune system and put them at risk.
But you can offer Lily a cosy that has been used by her mates to snuggle into as a bit of a stress reliever and replace it every day or two so the scent remains fresh. Your washing machine should take care of the other way round; most respiratory illness are transmitted by air and direct contact anyway.

All the best!

PS: Please keep any further questions and update to this your monitored ongoing support thread. Since we are all doing this for free in our own free time and none of us can always be around or read everything, we find it very helpful to run one thread for every ongoing case so everybody can catch up whenever they come on. Unlike social media, we can run our threads for as long as needed and give you our personalised support.

Thank you for your reply! It’s been very helpful. Lily really liked the smells-like-the-others-cozy :) She’s been getting a bit stronger and more herself every day and she is cooperating very well now with the meds! She’s still not a fan of recovery food but she’s taking it, I’m really proud of her. Her weight I had indeed been doing every morning before meds, she’d gone up but now she seems to have stabilised. I’ve been giving her more hand feeding. She is eating more pellets herself though, getting close to the amount she’d normally eat. But with hay I can’t really measure it as precise and that is offc the biggest food group.

I haven’t been able to find much on what I should expect when it comes to weight gain, do you have more information about that? I’d expect that it wouldn’t be a perfect straight line up, that it’s normal to have days where she gains a bunch and days where she stagnates a bit as long as the general trend is going upwards. But I don’t want to simply assume that.

Her eye has finally cleared up as well, the white of her eyes is almost entirely back to normal now. I tried cleaning the gunk that had gotten stuck there during the hospitalisation with cooled down boiled water which was helping a bit but in the end Lily decided to just scratch it off including some hairs at some point :’) The good thing is that she now has very little discharge coming out and she’s able to easily keep it clean herself.

We are going to reintroduce the piggies today. The risk of infection seems minimal at this point (even more so when taking into account that infection probably already happened) and she’s been on antibiotics for over a week with now showing almost no symptoms anymore. Noah and Fiep have been stable and healthy in the meantime. I think at this point she would benefit the most from having her friends back. I’m hoping that being back with them, feeling safe and having companionship while eating will do her good.
 
The only way to know they are eating enough hay is via the weight checks. You are right, you can’t judge it by eye but if she is no longer losing weight then she is eating enough to keep her stable.
You are absolutely right regarding weight gain. It’ll take longer to regain lost weight then it does to lose it but as long as the general trend is stable to upwards then that’s good.

Make sure to reintroduce them on neutral territory.
I hope the rebonding goes well and she continues to recover well.

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
 
I hope that the rebonding on neutral ground outside the cage has gone well. Please continue to keep a close eye on the weight with your kitchen scales - it is your most helpful health monitoring instrument because you cannot measure the hay intake by eye.

We recommend a weekly weigh-in and body check up life-long but to switch to weighing daily at the same time with any guinea pigs you have concerns about. Piggies can lose weight extremely quickly; you want to be able to step in time.
Unfortunately, recovery can take its time - depending on the severity, it can take weeks or even months and not just a few days. Be patient; you are still at the stage where you are looking for stabilisation and if possible an upward trend. As long as the weigh-ins are moving in the right direction, you are on the right road.
 
The only way to know they are eating enough hay is via the weight checks. You are right, you can’t judge it by eye but if she is no longer losing weight then she is eating enough to keep her stable.
You are absolutely right regarding weight gain. It’ll take longer to regain lost weight then it does to lose it but as long as the general trend is stable to upwards then that’s good.

Make sure to reintroduce them on neutral territory.
I hope the rebonding goes well and she continues to recover well.

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

I hope that the rebonding on neutral ground outside the cage has gone well. Please continue to keep a close eye on the weight with your kitchen scales - it is your most helpful health monitoring instrument because you cannot measure the hay intake by eye.

We recommend a weekly weigh-in and body check up life-long but to switch to weighing daily at the same time with any guinea pigs you have concerns about. Piggies can lose weight extremely quickly; you want to be able to step in time.
Unfortunately, recovery can take its time - depending on the severity, it can take weeks or even months and not just a few days. Be patient; you are still at the stage where you are looking for stabilisation and if possible an upward trend. As long as the weigh-ins are moving in the right direction, you are on the right road.

Thank you for the clarification/explanations about gaining weight!

I’ve been weighing daily and she staying at a stable weight by eating on her own. Yesterday morning she did drop a bit so I started up recovery feed again, today she’s back to the stable weight. She hangs about 860 in the morning and 870 in the evening, I will continue giving recovery feed for a while longer I think. Seems like she does need it to be able to gain weight.

The rebonding went absolutely perfect, an instant pr-pr-piggy-train was formed and then Noah and Fiep started eating on herbs and Lily stood by for a little bit looking a bit awkward/unsure (very understandable) but within minutes joined the rest with eating and since then it’s been pretty much instantly back to normal. Big relief! And Lily is so much happier again now that she’s back with her mates, her energy went up loads and looks a lot more relaxed/comfortable in general now.

Thursday we had the check-up appointment with our own vet, which was surprisingly one we didn’t know yet but she seemed to be doing ok. The vet said that Lily’s heart and lungs sound normal, her eyes/nose/teeth also all look ok. So we discussed the medicine and decided to continue ‘till she had had them for at least 10 days and up to 14 days if we felt like she wasn’t fully there yet. And somewhere this week she will call us to discuss taking Lily in to check her teeth under sedation at some point to make sure there’s not underlying issues there.

We decided to continue with the meds for the full 14 days, today is day 14. Do you also agree that 14 days is good enough? I realised I’d forgotten to write down what meds she has been taking:

- Doxycycline 10 mg/ml: 2x a day 0.4 ml
- Meloxicam 0.5 mg/ml: 2x a day 0.35 ml
- Cisapride 1 mg/ml: 2-4x a day 0.25 ml
- Emperid: 3x a day 0.2 ml

About the teeth checking under sedation I’m feeling a bit mixed, personally I feel quite strongly that Lily really still needs to recover a lot more before being able to handle sedation. Her original weight was a bit above a kilo so she’s still far off from getting back there, and just two weeks ago she was still standing on deaths doorstep. However it is possible that there are issues with her molars that might’ve caused her eating less and in combination with seasonal changes making her vulnerable to getting the infection so badly. And if that’s the case then it’s very important she gets help with that so she can fully recover. Do you have any recommendations for this?

Regarding life-long weekly weigh in‘s, yeah I have definetely learned from this experience that I really need to be more on top of this. I do weigh regularly and have an excel sheet with the full history and if somethings up I weigh them a lot more but when things are going well then I have a tendency to slip. Which I can now see how much more valuable it would have been if I’d had a proper weekly overview of the last few months with Lily rather than a weigh every 2 to 3 weeks :/ So I will take extra care now and in the future to really consistently weigh weekly.
 
Thank you for the clarification/explanations about gaining weight!

I’ve been weighing daily and she staying at a stable weight by eating on her own. Yesterday morning she did drop a bit so I started up recovery feed again, today she’s back to the stable weight. She hangs about 860 in the morning and 870 in the evening, I will continue giving recovery feed for a while longer I think. Seems like she does need it to be able to gain weight.

The rebonding went absolutely perfect, an instant pr-pr-piggy-train was formed and then Noah and Fiep started eating on herbs and Lily stood by for a little bit looking a bit awkward/unsure (very understandable) but within minutes joined the rest with eating and since then it’s been pretty much instantly back to normal. Big relief! And Lily is so much happier again now that she’s back with her mates, her energy went up loads and looks a lot more relaxed/comfortable in general now.

Thursday we had the check-up appointment with our own vet, which was surprisingly one we didn’t know yet but she seemed to be doing ok. The vet said that Lily’s heart and lungs sound normal, her eyes/nose/teeth also all look ok. So we discussed the medicine and decided to continue ‘till she had had them for at least 10 days and up to 14 days if we felt like she wasn’t fully there yet. And somewhere this week she will call us to discuss taking Lily in to check her teeth under sedation at some point to make sure there’s not underlying issues there.

We decided to continue with the meds for the full 14 days, today is day 14. Do you also agree that 14 days is good enough? I realised I’d forgotten to write down what meds she has been taking:

- Doxycycline 10 mg/ml: 2x a day 0.4 ml
- Meloxicam 0.5 mg/ml: 2x a day 0.35 ml
- Cisapride 1 mg/ml: 2-4x a day 0.25 ml
- Emperid: 3x a day 0.2 ml

About the teeth checking under sedation I’m feeling a bit mixed, personally I feel quite strongly that Lily really still needs to recover a lot more before being able to handle sedation. Her original weight was a bit above a kilo so she’s still far off from getting back there, and just two weeks ago she was still standing on deaths doorstep. However it is possible that there are issues with her molars that might’ve caused her eating less and in combination with seasonal changes making her vulnerable to getting the infection so badly. And if that’s the case then it’s very important she gets help with that so she can fully recover. Do you have any recommendations for this?

Regarding life-long weekly weigh in‘s, yeah I have definetely learned from this experience that I really need to be more on top of this. I do weigh regularly and have an excel sheet with the full history and if somethings up I weigh them a lot more but when things are going well then I have a tendency to slip. Which I can now see how much more valuable it would have been if I’d had a proper weekly overview of the last few months with Lily rather than a weigh every 2 to 3 weeks :/ So I will take extra care now and in the future to really consistently weigh weekly.

Hi

Thank you for the update. You can continue with offering voluntary extra feed. You can find further tips in our Weight guide (see chapter Underweight) but please do not be tempted to throw the kitchen sink at your girl. She won't eat much more because you offer lots more - extra calories usually come at the price of a reduced hay intake.
Weight - Monitoring and Management

Please take heart that she is stable again and will put on weight again once her body is ready for it. We have rather lost the understanding what a major illness and a slow recovery means in our modern world with our expectation that everything can be solved easily and quickly. Just be patient. Things will come right in their own time! :)

Please ring your vet clinic tomorrow re. any medical decisions that need to be made and any questions you have about the continuation; we cannot make them for you.
 
Unfortunately things have taken a bad turn during the night, Lily started being more apathetic again and later struggling with breathing. Which has now progressed to her trying to breathe trough her mouth. The vet doesn’t have a spot ‘till 14.30 due to their surgery-schedule, we‘re not sure what to do right now. We will try to see if we can make earlier happen but so far no luck :(

Is there anything other than the tips from This thread that we can do to make her more comfortable?
 
Unfortunately things have taken a bad turn during the night, Lily started being more apathetic again and later struggling with breathing. Which has now progressed to her trying to breathe trough her mouth. The vet doesn’t have a spot ‘till 14.30 due to their surgery-schedule, we‘re not sure what to do right now. We will try to see if we can make earlier happen but so far no luck :(

Is there anything other than the tips from This thread that we can do to make her more comfortable?

Could you try whether a bowl of steaming water with some olbas oil (vicks is usually not recommended but as a amke or break emergency you can use it as well; it is safe as a one off) to improvise a bit of a nebuliser. Or steam up your shower and put her in there. Just to help ease the breathing.

I am so sorry! Keeping my fingers very firmly crossed!
 
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Could you try whether a bowl of steaming water with some olbas oil (vicks is usually not recommended but as a amke or break emergency you can use it as well; it is safe as a one off) to improvise a bit of a nebuliser. Or steam up your shower and put her in there. Just to help ease the breathing.

I am so sorry! Keeping my fingers very firmly crossed!

Thank you. We had been thinking along the same lines and had managed to get a nebuliser/humidifier this morning, hopefully it made breathing a little bit less painful…

Lily had to be brought to sleep, she wasn’t able to breathe trough her nose at all anymore. Noah and Fiep were with her, they’d been taking care of her and watching over her and Lily was going to them for comfort as well.
 
Thank you. We had been thinking along the same lines and had managed to get a nebuliser/humidifier this morning, hopefully it made breathing a little bit less painful…

Lily had to be brought to sleep, she wasn’t able to breathe trough her nose at all anymore. Noah and Fiep were with her, they’d been taking care of her and watching over her and Lily was going to them for comfort as well.

BIG HUGS

Guinea pigs are not much in the way of mouth breathers, unfortunately.
Please try to take comfort that you did all you could; Lily couldn't have had more loving home or better care. Pneumonia is a serious and potentially killing disease even with the best of care. :(

Here are some very practical tips if you are struggling with strong feelings of failure or guilt or get hung up on intense soul-searching about what more you could have done or if you have concerns about Lily's companions.
Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig
Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children
 
I'm so sorry that you lost the beautiful Lily. She is out of pain now and popcorning free over the Rainbow Bridge.
 
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