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Recognising Signs of Heart Failure

C

CutieAgouti

New Born Pup
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Hi everyone,

I have a bonded neutered male and female pair that are rescues and I have had them exactly a month now. The little girl suddenly took a turn about two days ago and is exhibiting a lot of symptoms that align with heart failure: visible, laboured breathing where her whole abdomen pulses, making occasional soft whimpering, cooing sounds; she wasn’t big to begin with but she has lost a lot of weight very quickly, is behaving lethargically and in the last day or so she is off her food and won’t drink (I have been with her all day to check on her and give her timely syringe feedings of water and critical care to try and keep her going and prevent GI stasis. She doesn’t enjoy this, and I noticed that last night she got a bit fed up and found the strength to eat a bit of hay, some fresh grass, some pellets, and drink a little bit on her own). She went to the vets the day we noticed she was acting different, but they seemed unable to diagnose anything, so to rule out infection she has been put on antibiotics (baytril) which I understand can cause appetite suppression. Today will be her second full day on them and while she does seem bright and alert, she is still not showing much interest in eating, drinking or moving around. I’m hoping that in another couple of days she might turn around if the antibiotics do anything, but if she does indeed have heart disease/failure, how long can I expect her to live? I have some concerns that maybe she doesn’t actually need to be on antibiotics and that she’s being given the wrong treatment, which is causing her prolonged discomfort and eating into the time where she should be receiving different treatment. I haven’t had her long and as she’s a rescue, we don’t really know her exact age, but I want to give her a good and comfortable life. Any experienced observations or advice would be much appreciated ♡
 
Hi, I have a piggy with a heart condition, her only symptom was unexplained weight loss. On exam my vet could not find the problem as her breathing was normal and lungs sounded good but when he xrayed her it showed there was fluid in her lungs so she was put on a diuretic which worked really quickly, indicating the problem was with her heart so was also put onto benazapet, which is an ACE inhibitor. She has remained on both meds ever since which is over 18 months now and is doing really well.
The breathing you describe could also be pneumonia which requires antibiotics and sometimes short term diuretics. Did your vet xray her chest? If she is not improving on the baytril i would have her seen again by your vet to discuss what else can be done. Keep up the syringe feeding but not too much at a time. When their breathing is compromised they don't have the energy to eat much on their own and also the basic need to breath overrides everything else.
Wishing you all the best
 
Pound Shilling & Pig said:
Hi, I have a piggy with a heart condition, her only symptom was unexplained weight loss. On exam my vet could not find the problem as her breathing was normal and lungs sounded good but when he xrayed her it showed there was fluid in her lungs so she was put on a diuretic which worked really quickly, indicating the problem was with her heart so was also put onto benazapet, which is an ACE inhibitor. She has remained on both meds ever since which is over 18 months now and is doing really well.
The breathing you describe could also be pneumonia which requires antibiotics and sometimes short term diuretics. Did your vet xray her chest? If she is not improving on the baytril i would have her seen again by your vet to discuss what else can be done. Keep up the syringe feeding but not too much at a time. When their breathing is compromised they don't have the energy to eat much on their own and also the basic need to breath overrides everything else.
Wishing you all the best
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Hi, thank you so much for your swift reply. It’s reassuring to hear that there are options even if she does have a heart condition. The vet did not give her an x-ray, which, having read up on all the possibilities, I realise this would have been the best way to get an accurate diagnosis. I will be sure to request this at her next appointment. Today she managed to take quite a bit of critical care and some water by syringe, she’s also moving around a little bit now which is promising. She is still pooping although it is very tiny amounts and she eats tiny morsels of hay and fresh grass by herself so I’m hoping that I can keep her stable for at least another day before she can see the vet again. Thanks again for your advice 🙏
 
piggl said:
Hi, I am sorry to hear of the situation you are in.

Someone with experience/advice will be along soon but for now I thought I could link a thread that talks about heart failure/disease.
Recurring pneumonia (formerly heart issues/disease) piggies
It seems the likes of @Free Ranger and @Pound Shilling & Pig both have first hand experience with such.

My thoughts are with you
Click to expand...
piggl said:
Hi, I am sorry to hear of the situation you are in.

Someone with experience/advice will be along soon but for now I thought I could link a thread that talks about heart failure/disease.
Recurring pneumonia (formerly heart issues/disease) piggies
It seems the likes of @Free Ranger and @Pound Shilling & Pig both have first hand experience with such.

My thoughts are with you x
Click to expand...
Thank you for the support and for directing me to these resources, any information on how I can better understand her situation and help her is much appreciated x
 
Its good she is still pooping, even if they are very small. With her compromisd breathing it won't be possible for her to consume enough to produce normal size poops but at least her guts are still working.
From my experience laboured breathing is more often a lung infection than a heart condtion so hopefully the antibiotics will do the trick. If she is not already on an anti inflammatory such as metacam I would ask your vet about that too. Also if the baytril doesn't work there are other antibiotics your vet could try.
 
giana said:
Hi everyone,

I have a bonded neutered male and female pair that are rescues and I have had them exactly a month now. The little girl suddenly took a turn about two days ago and is exhibiting a lot of symptoms that align with heart failure: visible, laboured breathing where her whole abdomen pulses, making occasional soft whimpering, cooing sounds; she wasn’t big to begin with but she has lost a lot of weight very quickly, is behaving lethargically and in the last day or so she is off her food and won’t drink (I have been with her all day to check on her and give her timely syringe feedings of water and critical care to try and keep her going and prevent GI stasis. She doesn’t enjoy this, and I noticed that last night she got a bit fed up and found the strength to eat a bit of hay, some fresh grass, some pellets, and drink a little bit on her own). She went to the vets the day we noticed she was acting different, but they seemed unable to diagnose anything, so to rule out infection she has been put on antibiotics (baytril) which I understand can cause appetite suppression. Today will be her second full day on them and while she does seem bright and alert, she is still not showing much interest in eating, drinking or moving around. I’m hoping that in another couple of days she might turn around if the antibiotics do anything, but if she does indeed have heart disease/failure, how long can I expect her to live? I have some concerns that maybe she doesn’t actually need to be on antibiotics and that she’s being given the wrong treatment, which is causing her prolonged discomfort and eating into the time where she should be receiving different treatment. I haven’t had her long and as she’s a rescue, we don’t really know her exact age, but I want to give her a good and comfortable life. Any experienced observations or advice would be much appreciated ♡
Click to expand...
Hi

I assume that your vet may be treating for a potential pneumonia, which can cause similar symptoms?

What only a vet can tell you upon closer examination and perhaps a scan is whether something inside the body like an internal growth could be pushing onto the heart as another potential cause - the heart can sound OK because the problem is sitting outside it.
I had to pts a 3 years old of mine in May where the heart checked out clear and had to be ruled out as the cause for a massive build-up of fluid in the body cavity causing major bloating symptoms and massive most likely cancerous tumour inside the body was left as the only other option. :(

So far, none of the piggies of mine that displayed at least three potential heart symptoms reacted to any heart meds but I have had over the course of a dozen years about 2 piggies without any symptoms die from heart failure in an operation. Diagnosing congestive heart failure is not necessarily as easy as you may think.

But it is certainly worth trying heart meds (furosemide etc.) as the next step. Piggies either respond to them pretty instantly or not at all. Mine never did.

All the best. I feel for you. It is always a difficult situation when a vet has to play detective. I am sure that they have checked out the heartbeat and found it strong enough to rule out. :(

Emergency and Crisis Care as well as Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

My thoughts are with you.
 
Wiebke said:
Hi

I assume that your vet may be treating for a potential pneumonia, which can cause similar symptoms?

What only a vet can tell you upon closer examination and perhaps a scan is whether something inside the body like an internal growth could be pushing onto the heart as another potential cause - the heart can sound OK because the problem is sitting outside it.
I had to pts a 3 years old of mine in May where the heart checked out clear and had to be ruled out as the cause for a massive build-up of fluid in the body cavity causing major bloating symptoms and massive most likely cancerous tumour inside the body was left as the only other option. :(

So far, none of the piggies of mine that displayed at least three potential heart symptoms reacted to any heart meds but I have had over the course of a dozen years about 2 piggies without any symptoms die from heart failure in an operation. Diagnosing congestive heart failure is not necessarily as easy as you may think.

But it is certainly worth trying heart meds (furosemide etc.) as the next step. Piggies either respond to them pretty instantly or not at all. Mine never did.

All the best. I feel for you. It is always a difficult situation when a vet has to play detective. I am sure that they have checked out the heartbeat and found it strong enough to rule out. :(

Emergency and Crisis Care as well as Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

My thoughts are with you.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your response! From what I’ve read there’s a lot of overlap in symptoms for guinea pig illnesses and as you say, it’s not always easy to immediately determine what’s wrong 😣 Having been watching her closely again today, I wouldn’t say she’s deteriorating, but it seems like it may be another day or two before we’ll know if the antibiotics are having an impact. It’s reassuring to know that from what I’ve described and based on what the vet decided, it’s more likely her lungs than her heart, therefore she may still respond to antibiotics. The main thing was that it came on very suddenly, as prior to this she was very active and a good eater and there was nothing to indicate she had any issues with her heart when we adopted her, so hopefully that is still the case. Thank you again for your advice and support and for directing me to further resources x
 
giana said:
Thank you for your response! From what I’ve read there’s a lot of overlap in symptoms for guinea pig illnesses and as you say, it’s not always easy to immediately determine what’s wrong 😣 Having been watching her closely again today, I wouldn’t say she’s deteriorating, but it seems like it may be another day or two before we’ll know if the antibiotics are having an impact. It’s reassuring to know that from what I’ve described and based on what the vet decided, it’s more likely her lungs than her heart, therefore she may still respond to antibiotics. The main thing was that it came on very suddenly, as prior to this she was very active and a good eater and there was nothing to indicate she had any issues with her heart when we adopted her, so hopefully that is still the case. Thank you again for your advice and support and for directing me to further resources x
Click to expand...

All the best. Both acute heart failure and pneumonia/more severe respiratory illnesses can come on very quickly and at the worst can kill in a matter of hours - which is thankfully something you are not facing.

My thoughts are with you.
 
Sorry for the delayed response - I've been offline for a while. The advice above correlates with what happened to us. My girl had heaving sides and was struggling to breath and it did turn out to be a lung infection which improved significantly after a few days on antibiotics and metacam painkiller. But she also had fluid around her heart and lungs so she has twice daily furosemide. If I forget a dose you can usually notice by the next morning that her breathing is a little more laboured and there is a head-bob a bit like a pigeon. This clears up with her next dose. Flora has only recently been diagnosed with this and we don't know the cause. She hasn't needed any further meds for heart or anything. The vet gave her an ultrasound scan (she was awake for this) to diagnose her and couldn't see any heart issues or any growths pressing on her organs but both could be a possible cause. So with us we're just playing it by ear and seeing how she goes - maybe she'll have a few weeks, maybe a few years, but she's 4 now so probably somewhere in between. The furosemide (frusol, in our case) is a diuretic that makes them pee out more fluid and as Flora has made no effort to drink any more I have started to give her pellet portion in a bowl with water which soaks the pellets till they poof right up. She absolutely loves this - it also makes them very easy to slurp up and eat which has helped her regain her weight. I hope you've been able to find something to help your little lady x
 
Thank you so much for your response! We’re coming up to a week on antibiotics now and I’m relieved to say that she’s improving every day, so it would definitely seem that she was fighting pneumonia or a URI. The head bobbing was also a symptom that I noticed early on, but all that seems to have subsided now, so I’m hoping that in this instance her heart wasn’t the issue. She is eating much better and drinking lots, and though it will need some effort to get her weight back up, her spirit is definitely back and she has started chasing and popcorning again. I’ve eased off a little on the intensity of the syringe feeding now, but she is taking a probiotic in her water and a small dose of metacam just to help her along. I’m really grateful for the advice I’ve received here and for your willingness to share your experiences with sick piggies, so thank you for the support! Wishing you all the best x
 
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