• Discussions taking place within this forum are intended for the purpose of assisting you in discussing options with your vet. Any other use of advice given here is done so at your risk, is solely your responsibility and not that of this forum or its owner. Before posting it is your responsibility you abide by this Statement

Quick Help Please - Mites / Bugs Problem

  • Thread starter Thread starter guineafriend
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
G

guineafriend

? Hi people, help please -
I've just noticed that my 2 boys have a load of bugs / mites, they are tiny little white things all crawling around on the piggies. Piggies are ok at the moment, no scabbing and they don't have a problem being touched etc.

can get to P@H straight away, or order something from gorgeous guineas for delivery in a few days time - can someone recommend something that I can go and get? Thank you people.
 
Ivermec is usually the best, but if you can get to P@H get some anti mite shampoo
 
Sounds more like lice, mites arent visible are they? lice n easy shampoo from GG will probably help x
 
Oh maybe i dunno lol! Mine had mites which were treated with ivomec so not completely sure about lice! You're probably right though!
 
Mites cannot be seen they live under the skin, Lice are more common and it sounds like your piggys have lice :( You can maybe bath them in a lice shampoo but itd be best if you tried that first but if it doesnt work then id visit the vets to get a proper treatment O0 good luck :D
 
Sounds like lice. I would recommend the Lice n Easy shampoo from Gorgeous Guineas www.gorgeousguineas.com. It works superbly. Chrissie at GG will give you excellent advice if you have any concerns.

I certainly wouldn't buy any of the commercial rubbish from pet shops that contain potentially harmful chemicals.
 
Agree with dsl, one of mine had lice a few months ago and gg lice n easy worked beautifully.
 
definately get the lice n easy from www.gorgeousguineas.com the pigs wont mind waiting a couple of days....
your supposed to shampoo once and then a week later, and a 3rd time in another week for bad infestations, but mine were cleared up after the first round.... its amazing, smells lovely too and it means u dont have to worry about going to the vets!

make sure u disinfect any bedding and cages too....
 
Good Morning, I went and bought some "spot on" from P@H recommended by the vets, will get some GG shampoo today though for the next treatment, nervous as I've never bathed the guineas before!

Any hints and tips...........?
 
I'm not 100 % sure but i dont think your supposed to bath for a few days after spot on?
 
Hi Leanne, no, you are right, spot on needs a few days to work, then possibly a second treatment, need to wait for the shampoo anyway. :)
 
Hints and tips for bathing a piggy!
Do one at a time. I do it in the bath, others in the sink but I find the bath easier. I put an old mat in the bath so they cant slip and I dont put any water in the bath, this way they are not plonked in water ;D
I have a basin next to me and a jug with lukewarm water in it. I wet them gently, shampoo and rinse using the jug. I let them rest on their back legs and hold them firmly under their front legs. If you have a shower head, you could use that to rinse. I have nice warm towels ready for them.
Top tip, get everything ready first and have what you need within easy reach. Avoid getting water/shampoo in eyes or ears, just use the foam from the shampoo :)
 
guineafriend said:
Good Morning, I went and bought some "spot on" from P@H recommended by the vets, will get some GG shampoo today though for the next treatment, nervous as I've never bathed the guineas before!

Any hints and tips...........?
Click to expand...

The ONLY suitable spot-on is the Beaphar one that contains ivermectin. Is it that one? You may find that ivermectin won't work and you will need the GG shampoo.
 
daftscotslass said:
I certainly wouldn't buy any of the commercial rubbish from pet shops that contain potentially harmful chemicals.
Click to expand...

I am puzzled as to why not?
I have used Bob Martin etc flea shampoos on pigs and also the flea sprays (used 'Kitszyme' for years but now this seems to have been superseded by the rather over-wet pump action spray) so have been using a bird mite spray instead.
I’ve also just bought some Johnson’s Insecticidal spray which is intended for g. pigs. Is this what you call commercial rubbish?
 
I bought the "Bob Martin's Spot On for Small Animals" one, first time I've had to deal with it, just wanted to get my piggies some treatment as quick as possible.

If it doesn't work then I'll give them a bath with the shampoo, seems to be ok at the moment though, checked them yesterday and there are significantly less lice, apparently takes 3 - 4 days to clear them completely.
 
I’m puzzled that the links provided don’t actually imply that pyrethrins are especially toxic and I am afraid that people are being discouraged from using these products through misquoted (or misinterpreted) data.

At least three of the links you provide are to the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for pyrethrins. These do not relate to the toxicity of a product, spray or shampoo in normal usage. Also, in most cases (unless otherwise stated) an MSDS refers to the active ingredient in its pure chemical form – not diluted in a shampoo etc.
All chemicals require a MSDS giving such information as physical/chemical properties, storage, handling, emergency disposal methods, accidental ingestion, toxicity, environmental fate etc. Even a little pot of Copper Sulphate arriving in a school chemistry lab will have had a MSDS enclosed with the packaging. Google for MSDS Acetic acid (vinegar) and Sodium Chloride – it may put you off having them on your chips!

Of course the chemicals sound toxic – rightly or wrongly the figures quoted are for LD50 . I’m still puzzled as to why pyrethrins are considered so harmful to guinea pigs. As Librarygryffon points out, the LD50s seem pretty high, “LD50 Rat oral 1.2 g/kgâ€
How about comparing that with data for Ivermectin LD50 Oral Rat 10 mg/kg ! (I gulped a bit when I read that).

Gorgeous Guineas products contain Neem. The MSDS for Neem (chemical name Azadirachtin) notes that this, too, produced sensitisation in guinea pig skin and the LD50s are very comparable with those of the pyrethrins.

http://www.ozonebiotech.com/msds/msds/MSDSAzadirachtinTechnical.pdf

In another link on the guinealynx page, the paper concludes …
“Summary
Pyrethrins are generally effective insectides that display low toxicity to mammals, breakdown quickly in the environment due to light or air interactions, and are rapidly metabolized.â€

I agree that amongst the literature you quote there are a couple of instances of severe anaphylactic reactions in human or guinea pig. Unfortunately that is life and somewhere in the world you will find someone with a very severe allergy to just about anything. It’s unrealistic, though, to suggest that people are placing themselves in mortal danger by bathing their pigs.

Anyway, you are of course entitled to your own opinions. I don’t want to endanger my animals and I have never felt that I was doing so by using these products. I have found them to be incredibly fast and efficient in relieving pigs’ distress from ‘passengers’.
Of course, if some people are so vehemently against them it is worth seriously looking into the reasons why …..which I now have done. As yet, I don’t find the argument at all convincing.
I don’t personally feel that these links alone provide the evidence and if your vet is warning people against using pyrethrins I am sure that he has information in addition to the links provided. Any chance of finding it please?
 
I have always used Johnsons anti mite spray for birds on the cavies to get rid of lice and it clears them very efectively and has done for the past 15 years if i iant had any Johnsons in ive used a bit of frontline spray on them and that also works very well .

Use one of these sprays then there is no need to bath them in this damp cold weather .

David xx
 
Moving this post on a little bit -

Where do lice come from and is there anything that I can do to minimise the chances of the piggies getting them again?
 
Juniper said:
I don’t personally feel that these links alone provide the evidence and if your vet is warning people against using pyrethrins I am sure that he has information in addition to the links provided. Any chance of finding it please?
Click to expand...

Personally I will take those two links and the opinion of my vet over your conjecture. Feel free to do a Google search on pyrethrin toxicity - you don't have written evidence to back up your claims so why should I be obliged to search on your behalf?
 
daftscotslass said:
so why should I be obliged to search on your behalf?
Click to expand...

Now please stop being unreasonable; I am quite capable of searching the literature for pyrethrin toxicity and was simply asking what your vet may have as different evidence. He may have access to Veterinary Journals that require a subscription and may have additional information.

I don't need 'written evidence' to explain to anyone what a MSDS is and that it is not generally relevant to the everyday use of diluted products.
Neither do I need 'written evidence' to explain that when a chemical appears to be toxic in a LD50 laboratory test, again, it is not generally relevant to the proprietary dilutions or the manner in which they are administered.

You really cannot advise everyone against buying ‘commercial rubbish’ unless you have scientifically sound reasons for saying so.
 
guineafriend said:
Where do lice come from and is there anything that I can do to minimise the chances of the piggies getting them again?
Click to expand...

Lice come directly from another pig.
It is generally believed that 'static lice' (the ones that cling to the tips of the hairs) come from contaminated hay but I'm not sure what evidence there is for this as I thought that they are species specific to pigs.
It is reasonable to assume that they could be transmitted if you handled one of your own pigs very soon after handling someone else’s infested pig.
The usual reason for them mysteriously 'reappearing' is that you didn't get rid of them all in the first place. Either eggs or adults were left in the coat.
 
Juniper said:
You really cannot advise everyone against buying ‘commercial rubbish’ unless you have scientifically sound reasons for saying so.
Click to expand...

And your "scientifically sound" reasons for stating that the chemicals are safe in any dilution are....?
 
I am not going to get into any arguments here, but, I would not use pyrethrum based products on my pigs, and I would not use a spray of any kind anywhere near them.,in fact I will not use sprays on myself or in my home.The chemicals used to "propel" sprays can cause allergic reactions that can be serious.

Johnsons products all have chemicals in them.

I agree with DSL that most of the pet store gp products are rubbish.

As for guinea lynx,yes it does have some helpful info but a lot of the info makes my hair stand on end,especially some of the drug dosages.
 
I totally agree with what Juniper has to say and think i will stick to what i have used for 15 years of breeding cavies without any problems .

I find it strange DSL that your vet wont use anything with pyerethrins in or even sell them .
I phone 6 different Vet surgerys in my area today and they all stock and sell pyrethrin based sprays for dogs , cats , and also birds and small animals and they recomend the bird ones are safe for use on small animals .

I think i will listen to the advice of my vet and other vets in the area than the advise of someone like yourself who whenever someone else comes up with a different view to yours you jump down their throat .

People are allowed differint view's DSL your ways are not always the only way .

David x
 
Just wanted to add my bit, for what its worth, as I know very little about these chemicals.. I avoid sprays/aerosols like the plague, I am sure they have a lot to do with allergies/asthma in humans so would not like to use anything like that near the pigs.

I reckon you could find literature on the net to back up either argument, both for and agianst using pyerethrins etc, however if there is a more natural treatment for getting rid of lice then surely this has to be better?

From my own experience I have to say that the GG stuff not only smelt less pungent, but also Jeremy's persistent dandruff cleared up after 1 shampoo and has not returned, but when I used Johnsons on him it came back after a few days. Also my coronet Tiger always felt a bit greasy after the using the Johnsons stuff, but his coat stays lovely an dsoft for a few weeks after using the GG shampoo.

Also, personally I like to support a small business like Gorgeous Guineas, and not some huge chemical comapny, but thats just me.
 
katiep said:
however if there is a more natural treatment for getting rid of lice then surely this has to be better?
Click to expand...

Pyrethrins = natural product from plants of the chrysanthemum family
Neem = oils from the fruits of neem tree (azadirachta indica)
 
OK, as you can tell I know nothing about pyrethrins, but if they are natural then how come they need an MSDS?
Not trying to be argumentative, you obviously have a lot more experience than me. I'll shut up now!
 
Found this..

"For humans, pyrethrin is known to irritate eyes, skin, and respiratory systems and is particularly harmful to aquatic life.

Due to its relatively inert properties toward mammals, pyrethrins are gradually replacing Organophosphates and Organochlorides as the pesticide of first choice. They are harmful to fish, but are far less toxic to mammals and birds than many synthetic insecticides."

Sounds worse for us than for the pigs!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top