Questions on bonding boars

Mikatelyn

Mikatelyn

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Hi all!
This is Bandit.
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He is 3.5 years old and recently bereaved of his brother, Bolt, who we unfortunately had to put to sleep last week because of rapidly growing tumors. Bandit was eating and drinking ok, but acting more needy than usual. I didn't want him to get depressed come Monday when hubby and I both had to go to work all day, so the same weekend I found a piggy in need of adoption and brought him home.

This is Bunker!
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Age unknown as the family I adopted him from found him and 2 other piggies dumped at a local park 2 months ago during one of the hottest days in the summer (in Phoenix, AZ the heat is no joke). They said he was smaller then, but not sure if that was because he was skinnier or younger. I think he might be an older piggy because he sleeps a lot, his nails look a little yellow, he's very chill (super tame) and his butt feels kind of bony (I've been watching Saskia's you tube video about how to guess a piggie's age). He was with 2 other males in the box, but the family that found them said they were starting to fight (so not sure if that means they were younger and that's why they were getting along and then falling out?)

In any case, Bunker and Bandit have been living side by side for a week now.
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The first 10 minutes both of them were trying to get to each other, running back and forth along the divider, but since then they both seem pretty content. I've read all the files on here on bonding, and watched Saskia's you tube videos in addition.
My questions
1) they seem happy. Should I even attempt to put them together and risk that they hate each other and hurt each other?
2) if I try to bond them, is a week side by side enough or should I wait longer? Should I switch their hides or switch their pens so they get used to each other's scents more? Or will that just make them angry?
3) does this count as a bonding pen and I can just remove the divider for their bonding attempt? Or should I create a whole other space for their meet and greet?

Thanks in advance!
 
It all comes down to personalities, if they like each other then that will be a success. I would read our bonding guide thoroughly through. Have everything prepared, oven gloves, nice hay, a place that’s neutral to both of them, and a full day in which you can keep an eye over them

Good luck 🤞
 
Congratulations on finding Bandit a friend. You would need to set up a separate neutral area. My personal opinion (I'm not an expert) is to try a bonding session, if they don't get on you can return to the current set up. They are very good looking boys.
 
1. Yes, try to bond them. You won’t know whether they are going to get on until you try.

2. A few says to a week is fine for them to be side by side before attempting the neutral territory bonding.
No need to scent swap - doing so can cause territorial issues.

You can move their cages closer together though. There seems to be a big gap between them which isn’t really necessary. (It also would mean each hand is bigger - a cage should be no less than 60cm or two grids wide).

3. No that doesn’t count as a bonding pen, You need a neutral territory.
Don’t just remove the divider. Doing so can be seen as a territory invasion when they wander into each other’s halves and then you risk causing a fight.

If the bonding does fail, then they can live happily side by side.

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
 
So I plucked up the courage and put them in a neutral bonding pen with a bunch of fresh grass in the center. Bunker started to hump Bandit, Bandit was making submissive squeals, then after a couple of minutes they both ate some grass.
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I thought "yay! That was fast. Well done me." But then a couple of minutes later they were back by it. After another 10 minutes or so Bandit was progressively decreasing in the amount of the submissive squeals, and they were doing chin offs with Bunker staring very aggressively at Bandit and chattering non stop. Bandit learned how to chatter as well (he's never done it before) and started doing it more and more back at Bunker)
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I tried to distract them with some lettuce, which succeeded for a couple of minutes, then they were right back to it. It seemed like they were having more tense stand/stare/chin offs and chattering from both parties. Bandit was still occasionally doing the submissive squeak, but much less than before. You could feel the hostility pouring off Bunker. This little piggy is soooo sweet and docile normally and in that moment he felt like an attack doberman. Bandit looked super miserable and scared. After about another 10 minutes I lost my nerve, stuck a dust pan between them to separate to opposite sides of the arena, and put them back to their separate pens. The whole thing lasted about 25 minutes.

I think that was stressful for everyone involved. What do you guys think? Did I separate too early or I should have just let them duke it out? Or does it sound like it was going downhill?
 
I know you folks are all asleep across the pond, but I'll update you anyways.
After their separation, Bandit seemed withdrawn and depressed all afternoon.
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He's been hiding out and sleeping a lot while Bunker is going about his normal piggy activities and even biting at the bars trying to get over onto Bandit's side. Bandit wouldn't hang out under the shelf area until I put a dividing fabric so he couldn't see Bunker.
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Bandit seems to be avoiding looking at Bunker at all, and seems to go away from wherever he can see Bunker, whereas before the bonding attempt they seemed to be mirroring each other's activities.
I might be anthropomorphizing way too much, but it almost seems like Bandit didn't realize until today the gravity of losing Bolt. They were born in the same litter, and had never been apart for more than like a half hour before. After we returned from the vet's after putting Bolt to sleep, I put Bolt in the cage to let Bandit know what happened. Bandit stood at attention and stared at Bolt for probably 5-10 minutes without moving. I've never seen him do that before. Eventually he turned around and laid down.
I feel like adding Bunker distracted Bandit for a bit, but today Bandit realized Bunker is no Bolt, and Bandit is feeling the full impact of missing Bolt.

At the same time, my husband and I feel kind of angry and upset at Bunker. Logically I know they were just being guinea pigs, but it sure feels a lot like some new guest we invited over to cheer up our fur baby who is mourning the loss of his best friend, ended up beating him up instead.

I think I'm just upset and rambling now. I really wanted them to get along.
Do you all have any thoughts on this? Have you guys seen this post-bonding-attempt depression before? I'm wondering if just being next door to Bunker is traumatizing for Bandit? Should I try getting a different piggy for Bandit and adopting out Bunker?

I realize I'm still super upset over losing Bolt since I'm crying as I write this so maybe my decision making is emotionally compromised right now. Anyways, thanks for taking the time to read and give advice. I really appreciate it.
 
Hi!
No advice, sorry, just wanted to offer you support and share our experience.
Our two boys live alongside each other. We lost one of our Pigs, Hector 🌈earlier this year. Hamish went dating at the rescue, and brought Billy pig home with him. Unfortunately after a week or so, it just wasn't working out. The boys now live as neighbours, and have done, happily since March time this year. It did take the Hamish and Billy a while to settle into side by side living, We had a lot of bar chewing and teeth chattering in the beginning, Hamish also preferred to hide form Billy. Billy preferred to know where Hamish was at all times. We do now see quite a bit of mirroring behaviour. Billy is less needy and Hamish hides from him less!
I did cover the dividing wall quite often, and slowly removed the cover for longer periods of time.

Both myself & my OH struggled in the beginning to feel Billy was family, we were still morning Hector, but Billy has worked his way into our hearts, and certainly brings a smile to our faces. (Billy was very humptastic towards Hamish.)

I hope your boys are now feeling a bit calmer.

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This photo is from the first week of side by side living. Billy seeking Hamish & Hamish hiding!
 
Thank you everyone for your advice and support. @AidaB thank you for sharing your experience. That is incredibly reassuring. Everyone (the humans included, lol) seems calmer today. Bunker's frenzied bar biting has decreased, although he's still chattering at Bandit. Bandit is still hiding more than normal, but I did just a moment ago catch him and Bunker sniffing each other's noses though the bars in a, dare I say, almost friendly manner?
I'm feeling more hopeful that I didn't scar Bandit for life, and I'm glad that question of whether or not they can be together has been answered. @AidaB your story also makes me feel less guilty that I have no means to have Bandit go boar "dating", as your Hamish did that and it still fell apart a week later. Interestingly, in contemplating if I could try exchanging out Bunker in order to find a more suitable mate for Bandit, I find myself already feeling rather committed to Bunker. He's very sweet to the humans, but unfortunately turns into scary demon piggy with Bandit!
 
When we bonded George and Boris we assumed our calm, chilled, zen boy George would be the underpig. Boy were we wrong! He was like a pig possessed! A total humpaholic!
 
I’m sorry to hear this.

If two piggies cannot live together then they will be happier to live side by side - it’s an absolutely fine way to be. It still allows interaction between the bars just without sharing territory.
Behaviours between the bars are interaction of course but they can be territory marking exercises, not necessarily signs they want to together.

I have a bonded four boys myself m. I have a pair of boars who are 6 years old. I also have two youngsters who were a bonded pair until they turned 18 weeks old. They had an almighty fight and have lived side by side ever since. They are now 15 months old.
 
You’re welcome @Mikatelyn , I lost my post mid way through writing it.

I would just like to add, my stress levels while the Hamish & Billy were living together were off the scales- I really struggled. Partly down to the crazed humping from Billy! Something else we had to take into consideration was Hamish has a bad pelvis/back & the humping was not good for him. We felt that we could offer Billy a happy home, & he had been without a friend for a while. I am glad he stayed, he is super silly & definitely keeps us laughing. I would have always wondered what if, if we had asked the rescue to have him back.
I am sure you will grow to love Bunker in his own way, if he continues to live with you & Bandit.

Lovely to hear that you are all feeling calmer today.
 
I think Bandit is realizing Bunker can't get to his side and is looking a little less timid today. I even found them more or less hanging out together through the bars!
Bunker left, Bandit right
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I hadn't anticipated how intense the dominance dance would look in person. Even rewatching the video of it doesn't have the same effect. If Bunker had directed that stare and chatter towards me I would have been terrified of him, even though I am literally 55x his size!
I named him Bunker because he would just plop down and sleep wherever. Maybe I should rename him, although Beelzebub doesn't quite roll off the tongue, 😆
 
Even though my experience is limited to seeing a bond break (I thought George was going to get killed) and doing one bonding session, it's a definite experience witnessing our cute lil floofies turn into satanic hellbeasts!
 
Bandit was the dominant one with Bolt, so I thought he was going to wipe the floor with sweet docile Bunker. NOPE!
Although Bandit's dominance stuff was more like how a little brother annoys his patient, long suffering older brother, Bolt. He'd do things like crawl on top of Bolt and Bolt would kind of just let him and not look too upset. Or Bolt would be walking through a tunnel and Bandit would race in front to block the tunnel and wiggle his butt at Bolt, lol. It would only last a few seconds and just felt like them goodheartedly messing with each other. Then they'd plop down near each other and have a good nap together.
I think Bandit's cheekiness is starting to come back. I almost think them sitting next to each other through the bars is Bandit's way of saying "neener neener! You can't get me!"
 
George is however a very laid back dominant. Often his rumblestrutting ends with squeaky popcorns! @Wiebke , who is very experienced calls it feeling their boarliness. Just enjoying life as a boar. Have you checked out some of the threads on here? Some are very funny 😁
 
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Bunker in his sweet angelic persona. You'd never guess his other persona was a tiny little hellion with fur!
@fluffysal yes, I'm what you would call a long time lurker, lol. I joined this forum over 3 years ago when I first got Bandit and Bolt to get information and advice on how to take best care of them.
Do you have any videos of George's boarliness? I bet it must be very cute!
 
I can just about cope with posting pictures, videos are too much of a challenge.My boys do have their own thread though, the beastie boys.
 
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