Dental Questions about dental disease.

[Bayberrybae]

Hi! I'm Sarah, I've been owning guinea pigs for quite some time now. Just this morning, I woke up to find my neutered boar, Ozzy, unable to move, but still alive. After taking him to our emergency vet, we were told that he was in cardiac shock with a BPM of 40, so they performed CPR on him for 10 minutes. They determined that CPR wasn't working for him, as he was in too critical of condition. We decided to euthanize. Afterward, our vet had analyzed what she thought the issue could be, and she came to the conclusion that it was due to dental disease. I know dental disease is among the list of issues that can be very deadly if not treated right away, but I thought I'd come on here and ask for some opinions. This is how our vet put the reasoning for his death:

He had gotten dental disease, and it wasn't treated, so his teeth grew into his jaw and was causing him to be in pain, and not eat. Because he wouldn't eat, he wasn't getting enough nutrients in his body, so he had a lack of muscle matter and fat on his body. There's problem #1. What caused him to go into cardiac shock, was that the fungus from the dental disease had finally entered his bloodstream, and therefore caused the shock. That's problem #2. So mixing both of those problems today is what caused him to have such a low heart rate, be unable to move, but yet still be breathing and alive.

The reason I'm on here asking for some opinions is that our previous vet (not the same one he saw today) had always said Ozzy's teeth were perfectly fine. Ozzy had also never stopped eating, like this current vet thinks. He also had never showed any signs of pain, lethargy, or anything of the sort. So it bewildered me today to find him in such a critical condition and have to let him go so soon. He was only a year old. So how is it that he all of the sudden had this huge issue? I know guineas are known for hiding their symptoms, but if it was such a serious case that it caused him to pass, wouldn't there be some sort of signs? Whether it was me seeing him not eat here at home, or physical signs that our vet could have seen. I'm just very shocked and confused, myself.

Please feel free to give your thoughts and opinions!

-A very confused pig mom <3

 

[Free Ranger]

I'm so very sorry for your loss x

We are just waking up here in the UK so the experts will be online soon with more answers than I can give. Please remember that so many people keep guinea pigs which "...just died" so there are some types of illness that we may see as unusual but might occur more often than we think.

80% of the piggy diet is hay (the remaining 20% being mainly veggies/forage and a small amount of pellets) and this serves the additional purpose of keeping the ever-growing teeth in check. When a piggy starts to have trouble eating the first thing to drop off is often hay which requires a lot of chewing... but we sometimes don't see this as they are still eating veggies and pellets. The forum recommends weekly weigh-ins of pigs to check weight maintenance. Pigs do hide their illness so anything at all which causes them to feel a bit poorly can put them off their hay - but then the problem can be that the teeth start to overgrow as a result and eating becomes more difficult again. Teeth can become misaligned, or grow 'spurs' out the side which can poke into the gums and make sore spots, sometimes they can entrap the tongue making eating impossible, sometimes the front ones can overgrown preventing piggy from being able to close their mouth properly. However, this sort of thing doesn't happen overnight and I don't think this affects the roots of the teeth. Even if your boy had been steadily losing a little weight it would have been hard to know why if the tops of his teeth looked fine unless there was tenderness in the jawline or some sort of x-ray/scan.

I've not heard of fungus being involved but I have heard that dental abscesses can form at the roots sometimes and these would need treatment for the bacteria in them - antibiotics and possible surgery, but I am no expert here.

Please be kind to yourself and take comfort in the fact that Ozzy's short life sounded very happy up till the end. He had a caring owner who took him to the vet when he looked poorly and everyone tried to do their best for him. If he had a little friend pay them extra attention while they are alone as you both adapt to your loss

 

[Bayberrybae]

I'm so very sorry for your loss x

We are just waking up here in the UK so the experts will be online soon with more answers than I can give. Please remember that so many people keep guinea pigs which "...just died" so there are some types of illness that we may see as unusual but might occur more often than we think.

80% of the piggy diet is hay (the remaining 20% being mainly veggies/forage and a small amount of pellets) and this serves the additional purpose of keeping the ever-growing teeth in check. When a piggy starts to have trouble eating the first thing to drop off is often hay which requires a lot of chewing... but we sometimes don't see this as they are still eating veggies and pellets. The forum recommends weekly weigh-ins of pigs to check weight maintenance. Pigs do hide their illness so anything at all which causes them to feel a bit poorly can put them off their hay - but then the problem can be that the teeth start to overgrow as a result and eating becomes more difficult again. Teeth can become misaligned, or grow 'spurs' out the side which can poke into the gums and make sore spots, sometimes they can entrap the tongue making eating impossible, sometimes the front ones can overgrown preventing piggy from being able to close their mouth properly. However, this sort of thing doesn't happen overnight and I don't think this affects the roots of the teeth. Even if your boy had been steadily losing a little weight it would have been hard to know why if the tops of his teeth looked fine unless there was tenderness in the jawline or some sort of x-ray/scan.

I've not heard of fungus being involved but I have heard that dental abscesses can form at the roots sometimes and these would need treatment for the bacteria in them - antibiotics and possible surgery, but I am no expert here.

Please be kind to yourself and take comfort in the fact that Ozzy's short life sounded very happy up till the end. He had a caring owner who took him to the vet when he looked poorly and everyone tried to do their best for him. If he had a little friend pay them extra attention while they are alone as you both adapt to your loss

Thank you so so much for your response. I have 3 females who were with him, so they're definitely getting some extra care. On the topic of hay, that's what's mainly so confusing to me, is that he never stopped eating anything, ever, like he would if he was in such pain. All of his behavior kept was normal and seemingly healthy, which is what never made me think twice, and on top of that I had a, in my opinion, poorly-educated vet telling me that his everything about him, including his teeth, was perfectly fine. The theory of him having dental disease and it leading up to his unfortunate passing does make sense to a point, it's just how unsuspected it was. Then again, as we all know, pigs are masters at hiding their illnesses, so who knows for sure. It's just such an odd case.

 

[weepweeps]

I’m so sorry for your loss. It sounds like you have done everything you possibly could for Ozzy. I agree with you that you would have noticed if he wasn’t eating properly and also if he lost muscle because of not eating. This wouldn’t of happened overnight. I believe that Ozzy may be one of the unlucky ones who had a problem ticking away inside him. That’s just my feeling. His short life was full of love and happiness. Take care of yourself.

 

[Bayberrybae]

I’m so sorry for your loss. It sounds like you have done everything you possibly could for Ozzy. I agree with you that you would have noticed if he wasn’t eating properly and also if he lost muscle because of not eating. This wouldn’t of happened overnight. I believe that Ozzy may be one of the unlucky ones who had a problem ticking away inside him. That’s just my feeling. His short life was full of love and happiness. Take care of yourself.

My thoughts exactly, he must've been a rare case. Thank you so much for the love and support, definitely going to be taking care of myself in these upcoming weeks.

 

[Bill & Ted]

I have had a piggie with dental spurs that grew out into his cheek and caused ulceration and pain. When he first started to have problems it was very noticeable. We were lucky to find a brilliant vet who gave Ted conscious dental for the next 2.5 years on a regular basis. He lived a great life and was sadly PTS at almost 6 back in December of a mass on his kidney, which the vet said was inoperable possibility a large stone or tumour. These are the things I noticed about Ted’s dental problems before treatment:

Stopped eating hay
Lost weight on a failing scale
Choosing soft foods
Dropping food out of his mouth
Pulling strange faces when eating
Gagging or pawing at this mouth
Start eating then turning away

I think you would have seen these symptoms if your piggie had dental disease. There are many things your piggie could have died from but from my experience I think you would have noticed. So sorry you lost him x

 

[Viennese Furbabies]

I agree with the other posts. You would have noticed problems with the teeth and/or a fungal problem of the mouth. The explantion of the vet sounds rather 'fishy' to me.
Sometimes piggies die quite suddenly without any notice. Don't blame yourself and take care!

 

[Wiebke]

with my previous posters.

Dental overgrowth doesn't happen overnight; picky eating, losing incearingly the ability to chew, stopping to eat hay (which makes about 80% of the daily food intake); dropping foods, especially harder veg and pellets and losing weight first slowly and then increasingly quickly previously with salivation in the advanced stages when swallowing becomes difficult are very noticeable symptoms for any observant owner, which you certainly sound like you are.
This goes for both a developing root abscess as the cause or for - what in your case can be excluded - misalignment leading to one-sided chewing. I have had three piggies with dental root abscesses so far. It would be just about possible that the abcess could have burst and bacteria got into the blood stream, causing sepsis.

Again, a painful oral thrush (fungal mouth infection) is not an instant killer; loss of appetite/weight, dropping food and swallowing issues/salivation and the resulting overgrowth of the premolars when they were no longer ground down from chewing would have been rather noticeable in the days leading up to it.

However, heart attacks or acute heart failure out of the blue can happen at any age, in younger piggies usually due to living with a genetic time bomb. I have lost two young piggies of mine to it (1-2 years); despite having them seen at the vet's as an emergency within half an hour of noticing the first symptoms of them being suddenly very flat despite turning up and eating as normal for breakfast.

Please do not feel guilty about the death; it is in no way due to any failure of yours. Finding the cause of death can often be very difficult when there are no obvious traces. If you feel strongly that you need to know, then a post mortem examination at the vet you trust would be the way forward to get to the bottom of it.

Please take the time to read these links here; you may find them helpful to cope with your own strong feelings now and in the coming days and also with practical tips as to what you can do for your poor boy's companion in the immediate and medium term.
Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children
Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig

 

[Bayberrybae]

with my previous posters.

Dental overgrowth doesn't happen overnight; picky eating, losing incearingly the ability to chew, stopping to eat hay (which makes about 80% of the daily food intake); dropping foods, especially harder veg and pellets and losing weight first slowly and then increasingly quickly previously with salivation in the advanced stages when swallowing becomes difficult are very noticeable symptoms for any observant owner, which you certainly sound like you are.
This goes for both a developing root abscess as the cause or for - what in your case can be excluded - misalignment leading to one-sided chewing. I have had three piggies with dental root abscesses so far. It would be just about possible that the abcess could have burst and bacteria got into the blood stream, causing sepsis.

Again, a painful oral thrush (fungal mouth infection) is not an instant killer; loss of appetite/weight, dropping food and swallowing issues/salivation and the resulting overgrowth of the premolars when they were no longer ground down from chewing would have been rather noticeable in the days leading up to it.

However, heart attacks or acute heart failure out of the blue can happen at any age, in younger piggies usually due to living with a genetic time bomb. I have lost two young piggies of mine to it (1-2 years); despite having them seen at the vet's as an emergency within half an hour of noticing the first symptoms of them being suddenly very flat despite turning up and eating as normal for breakfast.

Please do not feel guilty about the death; it is in no way due to any failure of yours. Finding the cause of death can often be very difficult when there are no obvious traces. If you feel strongly that you need to know, then a post mortem examination at the vet you trust would be the way forward to get to the bottom of it.

Please take the time to read these links here; you may find them helpful to cope with your own strong feelings now and in the coming days and also with practical tips as to what you can do for your poor boy's companion in the immediate and medium term.
Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children
Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig

Thank you so much for your response. I agree with everything you said. Although I trust this new vet as she seemed very knowledgeable, what she thinks led to his cardiac shock just doesn't make sense in my head, for the exact reasons you listed. It doesn't happen overnight, he was eating normally, etc. In my mind I think it was just a case of heart failure. I'll definitely be looking into the links you sent, again thank you so much.

 

[Freela]

I'm really sorry for your loss. It's a shock when they go really suddenly. Unfortunately, a lot of pigs seem to go this way and there's often no way to know exactly what happened. To me, what you encountered (low BP, low heart rate, lethargy, is something I've encountered in any and all of my pigs who passed away, regardless of the cause. I think you simply found him when his body was in the process of shutting down. I too find it difficult to believe that he had severe dental disease with you not noticing any signs... I've had dental issues in pigs before and, although one did pass away after developing osteomyelitis from an infected root, it was certainly not something with no signs leading up to it. My dental pigs obviously had difficulty chewing, developed jawline swelling, and lost weight. They did not just up and die, even the one who did eventually pass. I think the vet is trying to give you an answer when truthfully, there is just no way to know. Pigs can pass abruptly from heart conditions, organ failure, etc., even at a young age. It's certainly not something you could have prevented or seen coming. ((HUGS)) to you, I'm so sorry for what happened with Ozzy.

 

[Bayberrybae]

I'm really sorry for your loss. It's a shock when they go really suddenly. Unfortunately, a lot of pigs seem to go this way and there's often no way to know exactly what happened. To me, what you encountered (low BP, low heart rate, lethargy, is something I've encountered in any and all of my pigs who passed away, regardless of the cause. I think you simply found him when his body was in the process of shutting down. I too find it difficult to believe that he had severe dental disease with you not noticing any signs... I've had dental issues in pigs before and, although one did pass away after developing osteomyelitis from an infected root, it was certainly not something with no signs leading up to it. My dental pigs obviously had difficulty chewing, developed jawline swelling, and lost weight. They did not just up and die, even the one who did eventually pass. I think the vet is trying to give you an answer when truthfully, there is just no way to know. Pigs can pass abruptly from heart conditions, organ failure, etc., even at a young age. It's certainly not something you could have prevented or seen coming. ((HUGS)) to you, I'm so sorry for what happened with Ozzy.

Thank you so so much for responding, and I 100% agree with you; I think he just had an underlying heart condition, or something of the sort. I appreciate the vet trying to give me an answer, but like we've all been saying, it just doesn't make sense when you try to put two-and-two together. Your love and support is greatly appreciated. <3