Questionable illness

[Kat.Bear.Bandit.]

My oldest guinea pig, Bandit, is about 6 years old. Almost a year ago, his cage-mate passed and we adopted a newborn pig named Bear. Things had been going great, until Bear grew up a little bit, and now they are both fighting a bit. I think Bear is scaring Bandit away from the food, because Bandit is losing weight. Should I separate them for a while? I don’t currently have space for two cages, but I could probably make something work. Bandit is really getting skinny, and I don’t really know what to do.

 

[Siikibam]

When you say fighting, what do you mean exactly? And has he been losing weight since before Bear moved in, or only after? How much has he lost and over what time period?

I’m any case it sounds like they may need to be separated. It would also be an idea to have Bandit vet checked just to rule out any health issues related to the weight loss.

Please make sure their cages are next to each other so they can still get the companionship through the bars.

 

[Piggies&buns]

You should have Bandit checked out by a vet to find out is there is a medical issue going on, particularly given his age. You should not assume his weight loss may be related to bullying.

Please ensure you switch from the routine weekly weight checks and instead weigh him daily. If he is losing weight then you need to step in with syringe feeding.

These first guides are health related guides

Not Eating, Weight Loss And The Importance Of Syringe Feeding Fibre
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

It’s important to differentiate between normal dominance and fighting.
Piggies who are physically fighting or if there is actually bullying going on (bullying being sustained behaviour and more than just normal dominance - a bullied piggy may become withdrawn and lose weight through not being allowed to eat) then the bond has failed and the piggies will need to be separated and live apart permanently. Two piggies who don’t like each other will never be able to live together again.

Sometimes illness and dominance can go together. If a dominant piggy is unwell then the submissive can seize their opportunity to take over and become the dominant. Such a shift in hierarchy may alert the owner to a potential medical issue where there may not be other symptoms of illness yet showing.
The bond may be able to survive a hierarchical shift provided both piggies are happy with the new arrangement but vet care should be sought to check for and deal with any potential illness.
Again though, clear bullying or failed bond and they would need to be separated permanently.

These guides are bond related guides

Bonds In Trouble
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

You should only separate if there is a need to do so ie a dysfunctional, failing or failed bond.

 

[Kat.Bear.Bandit.]

I was able to put Bandit in a temporary c and c setup, and I noticed that along with the bullying, Bear has been flipping all the food bowls and hiddies over. When I am gone for a while, I come back to find Bandit sitting in a corner or something. When I put Bandit in the temporary cage, he was able to sleep in a hiddie and his food wasn’t all over the ground. I think this might improve his mood a bit. Bear has started chewing on the bars of his cage and it is obvious that he wants to interact with Bandit. Bandit, on the other hand, had looked more calm than he has in a while.

Bandit is currently just below 2 lbs but he used to be at about 2 lbs and 5 oz. Bear has been gaining weight and is currently at 2 lbs and 10 oz. (He is almost 11 months old)

On Sunday, I’m going to send both of them off to a friend while I’m traveling, and I will not be able to have them separated there. I will probably not be able to get him to the vet before I leave and I think Bandit will eat on his own, but I know how to syringe feed if needed.

 

[Kat.Bear.Bandit.]

Thank you for the advice

 

[Piggies&buns]

If they are happier separated, then you should not put them back together. Repeated separation and reintroduction is stressful for them particularly if their bond is not functioning.

If you now have them separated, then to reintroduce them (which I would not recommend if bullying is occurring), then it needs to be a proper neutral territory reintroduction - you can’t just put them back together in the same cage. Be aware that a failure in rebonding is likely to occur where their relationship is no longer functioning. This means that your friend will have to have them separated otherwise fights, injuries and potential health issues are likely to occur. Bandit could lose even more weight (from what you’ve said the amount he has already lost is far too much).

It’s easier if you quote weights in grams.
Looking at the weight management guide below, the amount of weight he has lost constitutes an urgent situation. 2-3oz of weight loss is too much and from what you are saying he has lost in excess of 5oz? If so, he needs help immediately.

He will need to be weighed every day so hay (and syringe feed) intake can be monitored.

Weight - Monitoring and Management

 

[Free Ranger]

I think it might be important to keep them separately. It will be awful for your pet-sitter if there is a full blown fight and they end up with giant vet bills in your absence. It can ruin a friendship. Is there anyone from whom you can borrow cages so they can perhaps be stacked above and below? It's not ideal as they should really be able to interact with each other through the bars. But having had a friend who has recently had a boar fall-out situation I know it can get very expensive very fast. They paid hundreds to save their old boy's life - he was so thin and weak they thought it must be a cancer - but it was bloat because he was that stressed he couldn't eat properly. Bloat is very painful, and can quite easily be a killer, and in their case it was completely avoidable. If Bandit has an underlying issue - well, only a vet can give him the all clear. But if his problems have just been caused by his living arrangements it seems a bit bonkers to put them back in together. They won't suddenly make friends again. Have a good think - there must be some alternative you can come up with. How long will they be at the sitters?

 

[Kat.Bear.Bandit.]

After being gone for 5 days, I just got them back from the sitter. Bandit isn't doing great. My friend wasn't able to weigh them every day because the pigs were too scared to come out. I just weighed Bandit and he is down about 50 grams. He is still eating veggies when I hold him, and eating doesn't seem to be a problem.
While on vacation, I was gifted a pet store cage from someone who was giving it away. We will pick it up today, and I can separate them easier.
I know that Bandit needs to go to the vet, but I still live with my parents, who are the ones who would pay, and they are currently refusing to take Bandit in. Bandit's first friend wasn't doing great before he died and the vet couldn't really help him, so we just got bills and useless meds. I think if we don't take Bandit in soon, he could die.

 

[Piggies&buns]

After being gone for 5 days, I just got them back from the sitter. Bandit isn't doing great. My friend wasn't able to weigh them every day because the pigs were too scared to come out. I just weighed Bandit and he is down about 50 grams. He is still eating veggies when I hold him, and eating doesn't seem to be a problem.
While on vacation, I was gifted a pet store cage from someone who was giving it away. We will pick it up today, and I can separate them easier.
I know that Bandit needs to go to the vet, but I still live with my parents, who are the ones who would pay, and they are currently refusing to take Bandit in. Bandit's first friend wasn't doing great before he died and the vet couldn't really help him, so we just got bills and useless meds. I think if we don't take Bandit in soon, he could die.

Please step in and support feed him either mushed pellets or a proper recovery feed (such as oxbow critical care). He is losing weight because he isn’t eating enough hay. Hay is 80% if the food intake. Veg is just a minor part so while eating it is good, it’s nowhere near enough. He needs to eat a lot of hay and it is the hay the syringe feeding is replacing.
He needs to be syringe fed as much as is necessary to keep his weight stable at each daily weight check.

Please do separate them, their bond didn’t sound great so being made to live together will result in a lot of stress.

It is a legal duty to provide vet care when an animal is unwell. The situation with bandit’s first friend may have been very different so it doesn’t mean bandit won’t recover with good care. It MIGHT be that separating and some support feed is all that is needed IF his issues are purely as a result of bullying (having a vet check done before assuming that is essential though).