Question about bonding

Gem789

Gem789

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Hi all,I'm currently trying a bonding session with my original 3,Neutered boar jimin who's over 4 and my 2 7 year old sows, fuzz and poppy with my two newest girls who are currently called Thelma and Louise and are around 1 year and 4 months.Theyve all been in the bonding pen for about 3 hours and there's been no actual fights but a lot of teeth chattering and chasing etc.The problem seems to be poppy who is keeping her distance most of the time but when she does get close to one of the newbies she nips and chases.The other 4 seem quite happy next to each other.My question is shall I carry on or does this mean the bonding has failed?
 
Gem789 said:
Hi all,I'm currently trying a bonding session with my original 3,Neutered boar jimin who's over 4 and my 2 7 year old sows, fuzz and poppy with my two newest girls who are currently called Thelma and Louise and are around 1 year and 4 months.Theyve all been in the bonding pen for about 3 hours and there's been no actual fights but a lot of teeth chattering and chasing etc.The problem seems to be poppy who is keeping her distance most of the time but when she does get close to one of the newbies she nips and chases.The other 4 seem quite happy next to each other.My question is shall I carry on or does this mean the bonding has failed?
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Hi

By this stage, the bonding is well into the hierarchy establishment stage. Poppy is obviously the sow punching just above the new girls but who is obviously not feeling confident. The other sows have their standing in the group hierarchy not challenged and are therefore not getting involved.
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

If tensions are remaining high, then you have proceded enough that you can separate for the day and try again tomorrow to see whether the bonding works out or not when all sows have had time to settle and calm down. You should know fairly soon - if things are much quieter tomorrow, then it is a yet but if tensions are right back up again within minutes, then the bonding is very unlikely to work out in my own ample experience.
Very often bonded sows will increasingly close ranks between them when one of their group struggles with acceptance. The cohesion of the existing group takes precedence over including new members that are not universally accepted.

You can separate sows and mixed gender bondings once they get stuck a fair way into the bonding process and restart again but you cannot do it with boars-only bondings.
 
I agree with Wiebke. If Poppy is behaving that way, she is still feeling threatened by their presence. I’d be tempted to give them a break overnight and see how things are another day. In my experience the second round is usually quite quick and you will very soon know one way or the other how it is going.
 
Gem789 said:
Thank you @Wiebke and @VickiA .I will pop them back in their cages for today and will try again tomorrow although I won't get my hopes up.
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All the best! All you can ever do is give it a try and see where it takes you. Poppy is obviously not feeling sure that she can keep her own position in the rankings and is reacting on the fear-aggressive side.
 
Wiebke said:
All the best! All you can ever do is give it a try and see where it takes you. Poppy is obviously not feeling sure that she can keep her own position in the rankings and is reacting on the fear-aggressive side.
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Thank you.Just 2 more questions,Poppy has always been bottom pig with all the cage mates she's lived with over the years.Is she trying to climb up the ranks? Also when I try the bonding again tomorrow,do I need to put fresh vet bed in the pen or is it better to leave what I put down today so it smells of all the pigs?
 
Gem789 said:
Unfortunately the bonding didn't work out.Poppy was exactly the same as yesterday and was even nipping at her cage mates jimin and fuzz.
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Well at least you tried. And now you know that Poppy isn’t having any of it. Sorry that it didn’t work out.
 
So sorry things have not worked out as planned Gem, these piggies are a complicated lot aren’t they 🙄
 
Gem789 said:
They definitely are.
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I would love to bond my four but I sort of think it would be a complete non-starter what with Posh having a go at Ginger when I tried to introduce Hector and Kiki now will not allow Ginger and Posh in “her” lounge without her seriously rattling her teeth at me and Hector if she smells/hears them 🙄 nightmare 😆
 
Bill & Ted said:
I would love to bond my four but I sort of think it would be a complete non-starter what with Posh having a go at Ginger when I tried to introduce Hector and Kiki now will not allow Ginger and Posh in “her” lounge without her seriously rattling her teeth at me and Hector if she smells/hears them 🙄 nightmare 😆
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Bill & Ted said:
I would love to bond my four but I sort of think it would be a complete non-starter what with Posh having a go at Ginger when I tried to introduce Hector and Kiki now will not allow Ginger and Posh in “her” lounge without her seriously rattling her teeth at me and Hector if she smells/hears them 🙄 nightmare 😆
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It's such a shame isn't it?Be lovely if they could all get on.This is the 1st failed bonding I've had in 17 years of owning piggies.
 
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