Pros and cons of divided cage before bonding

[Hayley_Bayley_Haybale]

Hey everyone, I've read through the really helpful bonding guide and see that the recommendation is to keep piggies in a divided cage for a while before bonding in a neutral space but I have a few questions about this...

- how long should this be for?
- does it matter that the divided cage is where two guineapigs are already living? Or should the divided cage also be a neutral space?
- if I divide the existing cage in half I'll be at the lower limit of space suitable for a female pair, is that ok for a while?

Context is that I have just adopted a female from a really terrible situation (living in a hamster cage measuring 40 x 30 cm, never been provided with hay). She's around 18 months old but weighs only 610g. I'd like to bond her with my existing pair of adult females and I'm aware that this isn't guaranteed to work short/long term. If it doesn't work I have space to extend the existing cage so that she can live separately but have interaction through the bars. Of my existing pair, one is clearly the dominant female and the other is submissive and only rarely argues back. They get on but aren't the type of piggies who snuggle up together.

The new female has been quarantined in a separate room and has been to the vet for a checkup, sex confirmation, faecal sample analysis etc and she's amazingly healthy despite being underweight.

Any advice on bonding would be gratefully received!

 

[Bill & Ted]

Good on you for taking this is little piggie from a dreadful situation, that hamster cage isn’t even big enough for a hamster!

You can divide your existing cage provided your two piggies have a minimum of 120 cm x 60 cm space in which to live in. Your quarantined girl can live in the other half until you have a couple of days in which to bond them when you have no other commitments. There is no time scale, give her a week or so to settle if you want to.

Please read the bonding guides fully. Bonding must be done in a completely neutral space. I hope it works out for them all. if it didn’t, your single can live quite happily as a neighbour to the other two as long as she has a minimum cage size of 120 cm x 60 cm

Good luck

 

[Wiebke]

Good on you for taking this is little piggie from a dreadful situation, that hamster cage isn’t even big enough for a hamster!

You can divide your existing cage provided your two piggies have a minimum of 120 cm x 60 cm space in which to live in. Your quarantined girl can live in the other half until you have a couple of days in which to bond them when you have no other commitments. There is no time scale, give her a week or so to settle if you want to.

Please read the bonding guides fully. Bonding must be done in a completely neutral space. I hope it works out for them all. if it didn’t, your single can live quite happily as a neighbour to the other two as long as she has a minimum cage size of 120 cm x 60 cm

Good luck

Hey everyone, I've read through the really helpful bonding guide and see that the recommendation is to keep piggies in a divided cage for a while before bonding in a neutral space but I have a few questions about this...

- how long should this be for?
- does it matter that the divided cage is where two guineapigs are already living? Or should the divided cage also be a neutral space?
- if I divide the existing cage in half I'll be at the lower limit of space suitable for a female pair, is that ok for a while?

Context is that I have just adopted a female from a really terrible situation (living in a hamster cage measuring 40 x 30 cm, never been provided with hay). She's around 18 months old but weighs only 610g. I'd like to bond her with my existing pair of adult females and I'm aware that this isn't guaranteed to work short/long term. If it doesn't work I have space to extend the existing cage so that she can live separately but have interaction through the bars. Of my existing pair, one is clearly the dominant female and the other is submissive and only rarely argues back. They get on but aren't the type of piggies who snuggle up together.

The new female has been quarantined in a separate room and has been to the vet for a checkup, sex confirmation, faecal sample analysis etc and she's amazingly healthy despite being underweight.

Any advice on bonding would be gratefully received!

Hi

A divided cage with a bit too little space is fine for a short while to allow the new arrival to settle in, get their bearings and to get used to the neighbours. It takes quite a lot of extra stress out of the equation that could lead to an overload fear-aggressive over-reaction out of the bonding.

There is no set time limit; it depends completely on the piggies and can last from a from a few days to longer. In some cases I have had to wait for several weeks until I felt that the newbies had relaxed enough. Ideally you wait until you have got a couple of days free.
I often find that leaving the piggies in the bonding pen overnight to work through the roughest of the group establishing dominance (unless the bonding goes swimmingly) will make the move to the newly arranged cage easier when the territorial dominance is an added challenge and can lead to a confrontation if the only just accepted but not yet integrated newbie is put into an established territory of the other party. Again, that aspect will be less strong if both parties are already familiar with the space.
The stronger and more established the bond is before the move back to the cage, the better. Too many people make the mistake of rushing through these stages instead of taking their time because they think that initial acceptance is all it takes instead of being only the first hurdle in what is generally more a steeple chase than a 100m sprint.
Occasionally you have a true meeting of hearts/love on first sniff, and then it is OK to move fast because the rest is just a formality for the piggies involved.

The bonding itself needs to be conducted outside the cage on ground that is not part of either party's regular territory. What all the prep cannot do is guarantee success, just boost the chances. Ultimately, it comes down to whether the personalities and - importantly - whether the leadership question can be solved. That is down to the piggies' personalities andthe evolving dynamics. The post-intro group establishment phase takes around 2 weeks but should be less strong with every passing day.
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts) (also contains a chapter on sow-specific behaviour during the dominance phase)

 

[Hayley_Bayley_Haybale]

Good on you for taking this is little piggie from a dreadful situation, that hamster cage isn’t even big enough for a hamster!

You can divide your existing cage provided your two piggies have a minimum of 120 cm x 60 cm space in which to live in. Your quarantined girl can live in the other half until you have a couple of days in which to bond them when you have no other commitments. There is no time scale, give her a week or so to settle if you want to.

Please read the bonding guides fully. Bonding must be done in a completely neutral space. I hope it works out for them all. if it didn’t, your single can live quite happily as a neighbour to the other two as long as she has a minimum cage size of 120 cm x 60 cm

Good luck

Thank you for your reply, this is really helpful. If I divide the existing cage, I can give my pair just over 120 x 60 as well as access to their loft if either of them want a bit of alone time! The new piggy will have 90 x 60 for the short-term divided cage until things have settled enough for bonding - still a massive upgrade on where she has been living until now! Having read Wiebke's comment on leaving them in the bonding cage overnight, this would give me time to extend the permanent cage more/ rearrange it into a more suitable divided cage based on the outcome of the bonding. I will do a full cage clean today, insert a divider and move the new piggy in today. Plan for bonding next week if she seems settled enough to handle it.

 

[Hayley_Bayley_Haybale]

Hi

A divided cage with a bit too little space is fine for a short while to allow the new arrival to settle in, get their bearings and to get used to the neighbours. It takes quite a lot of extra stress out of the equation that could lead to an overload fear-aggressive over-reaction out of the bonding.

There is no set time limit; it depends completely on the piggies and can last from a from a few days to longer. In some cases I have had to wait for several weeks until I felt that the newbies had relaxed enough. Ideally you wait until you have got a couple of days free.
I often find that leaving the piggies in the bonding pen overnight to work through the roughest of the group establishing dominance (unless the bonding goes swimmingly) will make the move to the newly arranged cage easier when the territorial dominance is an added challenge and can lead to a confrontation if the only just accepted but not yet integrated newbie is put into an established territory of the other party. Again, that aspect will be less strong if both parties are already familiar with the space.
The stronger and more established the bond is before the move back to the cage, the better. Too many people make the mistake of rushing through these stages instead of taking their time because they think that initial acceptance is all it takes instead of being only the first hurdle in what is generally more a steeple chase than a 100m sprint.
Occasionally you have a true meeting of hearts/love on first sniff, and then it is OK to move fast because the rest is just a formality for the piggies involved.

The bonding itself needs to be conducted outside the cage on ground that is not part of either party's regular territory. What all the prep cannot do is guarantee success, just boost the chances. Ultimately, it comes down to whether the personalities and - importantly - whether the leadership question can be solved. That is down to the piggies' personalities andthe evolving dynamics. The post-intro group establishment phase takes around 2 weeks but should be less strong with every passing day.
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts) (also contains a chapter on sow-specific behaviour during the dominance phase)

Thank you for your reply! Knowing that I don't need to rush each stage is incredibly helpful. Your recommendation to leave the piggies in the bonding pen overnight would also allow me to either extend my existing cage to create a divided cage with enough space for everyone incase things don't work out, or deep clean and rearrange to try and avoid it feeling too much like the territory of my existing pair - though I guess whatever I do, it will still feel like their territory first?

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you for your reply! Knowing that I don't need to rush each stage is incredibly helpful. Your recommendation to leave the piggies in the bonding pen overnight would also allow me to either extend my existing cage to create a divided cage with enough space for everyone incase things don't work out, or deep clean and rearrange to try and avoid it feeling too much like the territory of my existing pair - though I guess whatever I do, it will still feel like their territory first?

Yes, that is another reason why I have found an overnight bonding very useful as well.

If you take the bonding slowly and wait until they well into their dominance or even over the very worst of it then any newbies move in as an established group member and territory is only an issue as to the changes but it should be minor and more like making themselves at home with exploring it, trying it on and scent marking as well as saying hello to any neighbours.

 

[Hayley_Bayley_Haybale]

Update on the bonding of my new girl with existing pair... Unfortunately it was a very quick and definite no from all concerned. When putting my new female into the divided cage, there was a bit of rumble strutting by the dominant female of my existing pair but that settled within minutes. My new girl quickly started exploring, munching on hay and grooming. Within hours she was sleeping outside of her hidey and seeming very settled. Lots of nose-to-nose sniffing through the bars over the 5 days, but calm otherwise. I was quietly confident at this point. She's also half the size of my other females so I was kind of hoping for a clear dominant/ submissive behaviour on that basis too.

Then we get to today... I put my pair into the bonding pen first then added my new female (pen 120 x 120cm, hay in the middle, no hides). There was around a minute of bum sniffing and exploring after adding my new girl. Then my new girl started pushing up the chins of my existing pair (dominant behaviour?). My dominant female barred her teeth and stood face to face with my new female. Then all three piggies started teeth chattering loudly (I realise I've never heard this sound before!), then my dominant female and the new girl went full tornado. So thankful for the oven glove as they were trying to bite eachother even around it! Luckily I got my hand in quickly and I've checked everyone over, no bite marks.

Now all three are back in the divided cage which I'll extend over the weekend. My pair will have 180cm x 60cm + loft. New girl will have 120 x 60cm and I might add a loft for her too.

I'm feeling a little sad that I wasn't able to give my new girl some friends, but her new home is orders of magnitude better than the hamster cage she was in before.

Now my question is whether I should look into getting a baby friend for her? I'm of course concerned of another failed bonding and another single piggy and I don't really have space for a third large cage. Do you think the side-by-side arrangement will be ok long term? I live in Brazil so there aren't rescues here where I could try some dates unfortunately.

Thanks for all the advice on this, I do feel confident that I did everything the best way I could and it just wasn't a match made in heaven for these three girls.