Possible URI?

[Jessika Wilson]

Hi everyone,

I hope you can help me. My piggy Ed is nearly 7 years old, we have never had to take him to a vet because he’s been such a good boy while we have had him and looked after him the best we could.
My partner noticed the other day that he was breathing strangely (pulling in at the tummy) but I have been keeping eye on him but I haven’t seen it since till a few hours ago where he is constantly doing this now when he’s still and making a few whistling noises. He is eating and drinking fine and coming to the edge of the cage for treats as usual and peeing and pooping as nomal.
I have rang the emergency vets and they have suggested I come in at 8 in the morning to be seen by more professional vet who will know more about piggies.
My worry is will he be okay till then? What are others experiences?

And also off topic, how often do people bath/wash their guineas?

Thanks in advance

 

[Wiebke]

Hi everyone,

I hope you can help me. My piggy Ed is nearly 7 years old, we have never had to take him to a vet because he’s been such a good boy while we have had him and looked after him the best we could.
My partner noticed the other day that he was breathing strangely (pulling in at the tummy) but I have been keeping eye on him but I haven’t seen it since till a few hours ago where he is constantly doing this now when he’s still and making a few whistling noises. He is eating and drinking fine and coming to the edge of the cage for treats as usual and peeing and pooping as nomal.
I have rang the emergency vets and they have suggested I come in at 8 in the morning to be seen by more professional vet who will know more about piggies.
My worry is will he be okay till then? What are others experiences?

And also off topic, how often do people bath/wash their guineas?

Thanks in advance

Hi and welcome

Diaphragmic breathing (heaving breathing from the diaphragm rather than the lungs) usually means a build up of water in either in the lungs (pneumonia) or in the chest (usually from congestive heart failure or something pushing on the heart).

Only a vet can tell and medicate accordingly but ideally it should includea diuretic of some sort to help ease the breathing. Heaving breathing from the sides is always a red flag symptom and you were right to call your out-of-hours vets for advice asap. I am very sorry that they haven't got anybody on shift with guinea pig experience right now.

Please keep your old boy comfy and warm but not hot (rather half-heat a mocrowaveable snugglesafe and then reheat more frequently) and with the option for him to move away if he feels overheated. Make sure that his head is ideally supported a little higher than the rump to help him breathe a bit more easily.
Keep him in his usual surroundings if he is an indoor piggy (including with any companion) as much as possible but take him onto your lap in a confining cosy or blanket in the case he is going into organ failure and starts starts fitting when the blood circulation breaks down; if that happens he will thankfully no longer be fully with it. I sincerely hope not that this is going to happen; but it will hopefully help you to know about because it can be a rather traumatic and very upsetting experience when you have never experienced it before and are not braced for it.

More practical tips and helpful emergency information are in this link here, especially if your boy is taking a sudden turn for the worst during the night. The link also contains a chapter on looking after dying guinea pigs with further practical links in case you need them: Emergency and Crisis Care as well as Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

I am keeping my fingers very firmly crossed! It is unfortunately going to be a long, anxious night for you and my thoughts are with you.

 

[Jessika Wilson]

Hi and welcome

Diaphragmic breathing (breathing from the diaphragm) usually means a build up of water in either the lungs (pneumonia) or in the chest (usually from congestive heart failure or something pushing on the heart).
Only a vet can tell and medicate accordingly but ideally including a diuretic of some sort. It is always a red flag symptom and you were right to call your out-of-hours vets for advice.

Please keep your old boy comfy and warm but not hot and with the option to make away if he feels overheated. Make sure that his head is ideally a little higher than the rump to help him breathe a bit more easily.

More practical tips and helpful emergency information are in this link here, especially if your boy is taking a sudden turn for the worst during the night: Emergency and Crisis Care as well as Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

I am keeping my fingers very firmly crossed!

Thank you so much for your speedy reply!
Now you mention that, I have been hearing like gurgling symptoms like water every so often but I did ask my friend who is a vet nurse who assured me this is normal for a piggy his age and he presented well so I never thought anything of it I feel terrible now!

I think the word vet has scared him because his breathing is absolutely fine again now and is running round his cage at the bars waiting for his supper but thank you for the advice I will follow and hope he stays stable till the morning. I know he’s an old piggy I’m just so scared of losing him, my children will be beyond devastated and I’ve said no more pets because of the heartbreak! Is heart failure common for piggies his age?

Thanks again

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you so much for your speedy reply!
Now you mention that, I have been hearing like gurgling symptoms like water every so often but I did ask my friend who is a vet nurse who assured me this is normal for a piggy his age and he presented well so I never thought anything of it I feel terrible now!

I think the word vet has scared him because his breathing is absolutely fine again now and is running round his cage at the bars waiting for his supper but thank you for the advice I will follow and hope he stays stable till the morning. I know he’s an old piggy I’m just so scared of losing him, my children will be beyond devastated and I’ve said no more pets because of the heartbreak! Is heart failure common for piggies his age?

Thanks again

Hi

If the symptoms are intermittent - more noticeable when he is lying on this side - and he is active then it doesn't sound critical and he is very likely to still be around in the morning and for a little while longer. He could however do with a vet check as to what is going on or not. Without access to your piggy, I can only pick up on what you are saying and on your emotional undertones but I do not have the frame to put everything into the correct perspective and to check things out in a hands-on examination.

When you hold your ear against the belly, it should gurgle away like that of a cow; not too loudly but definitely not silently, either. Any other squishy sounds are not quite right but it could be from water having gone up his nose. I can't tell you what is going on sight unseen (or rather hearing unheard).
7 years is the upper end of the average life span, so it is very good age and you can be proud of him having beaten the majority of his age mates. What you never have control about is when and from your piggies die. It is generally either from organ failure (natural death) or from their immune system giving way. Sometimes, as piggies become older and frailer, secondary complications can build up and compound each other and you end up with a growing rat-tail of issues until they become too much for a little frail old body. In a natural dealth (multiple organ failure) it is the weakest organ that gives way first and the strongest will hold out for longest, so the individual process varies quite a lot; as does the length of it. Any organ can go first; you can never predict this part.
In my own long term experience, I end up with having to race about half of my piggies for emergency pts (putting to sleep) at the vets and the other half passing at home in without being in too much discomfort. With the really frail oldies, the end usually comes very quickly.

Your boy however sounds like he is not quite there yet if he is still out and about so you may want to go and get some sleep and just check on him once or twice in the night.

If you would like more information about caring for older piggies, the natural dying process and when you need to see a vet asap and how to deal with a loss or an impending pet loss with your children, you may find these links here very helpful:
- Caring for Older Piggies and Facing the End - A practical and supportive information collection
- A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs (includes a chapter on talking you through the natural dying process and another one that talks you through euthanasia)
- Human Bereavement: Grieving, Processing and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children (contains a chapter with practical parenting tips and resources for children of various ages and religious/non-religious backgounds)

 

[Wiebke]

Please take the time to read the links. I have tried my best to guide you through the whole field in a very practical how-to manner and to address as many of the all the most common little iffy details as much as I could. I hope that this can make it a bit less scary and stressful for you, which will then communicate to your children.
The guides will hopefully help you to get a bit of a better grip on the whole subject and give you some very practical aid in how to best tackle the subject with your children, taking their age and individual personalities into account. Be honest and matter of fact about it, depending on what the vet is saying tomorrow.
Please be aware that a good deal of your current upset is due to you having started your grieving process. It doesn't set in after a death but the moment when you realise that a beloved one only has a limited time to live - and that usually comes a massive shock. Apart from the actual loss (which always comes as a bit of a shock and too soon, no matter the age and how much you are braced for it), this is the second worst time. But there is also a big hidden gift in being able to go the last part of the way consciously and making the best of the remaining time. Love transcends time, and never more so when time is running low.

HUGS

 

[Jessika Wilson]

Please take the time to read the links. I have tried my best to guide you through the whole field in a very practical how-to manner and to address as many of the all the most common little iffy details as much as I could. I hope that this can make it a bit less scary and stressful for you, which will then communicate to your children.
The guides will hopefully help you to get a bit of a better grip on the whole subject and give you some very practical aid in how to best tackle the subject with your children, taking their age and individual personalities into account. Be honest and matter of fact about it, depending on what the vet is saying tomorrow.
Please be aware that a good deal of your current upset is due to you having started your grieving process. It doesn't set in after a death but the moment when you realise that a beloved one only has a limited time to live - and that usually comes a massive shock. Apart from the actual loss (which always comes as a bit of a shock and too soon, no matter the age and how much you are braced for it), this is the second worst time. But there is also a big hidden gift in being able to go the last part of the way consciously and making the best of the remaining time. Love transcends time, and never more so when time is running low.

HUGS

Thank you so much for all your help
I will take a look through the links shortly, I have had a brief look at them and they seem very informative!
I got up a few times to Ed in the night and 2/3 times he was munching away happy and coming to the end of the cage to see what I was doing which was reassuring, the laboured breathing is coming and going so I am unsure if he’s just trying to mask it and the wheeze is also the same.

Wasn’t happy with the vets, when we got there this morning it wasn’t an exotic vet as advised- I could of gone last night to save the stress… but nevertheless she gave him a good check over after I told them what advice you had given, he had a good listen to his heart twice and said that she can’t hear a murmur which if it’s true- I’m happy about that. She also gave his lungs a good listen to and she said that she can hear a crackle on his left one slightly so has prescribed him some metacalm and antibiotics to take.
I just hope and pray that they help and going to return if these don’t help.
She did say that in cardiac problems it is fatal and for a Guinea pig to have a X-ray it would require sedation which she said would be high risk for Ed? Coming away I just assumed it was because he was an older piggy, and she explained that maybe think about PTS if his condition becomes worse and the medication doesn’t work? I mean, if that’s in his best interest to not be in pain and be suffering I suppose we will have to take that route but do you think this is the correct info given?

Thanks again! X

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you so much for all your help
I will take a look through the links shortly, I have had a brief look at them and they seem very informative!
I got up a few times to Ed in the night and 2/3 times he was munching away happy and coming to the end of the cage to see what I was doing which was reassuring, the laboured breathing is coming and going so I am unsure if he’s just trying to mask it and the wheeze is also the same.

Wasn’t happy with the vets, when we got there this morning it wasn’t an exotic vet as advised- I could of gone last night to save the stress… but nevertheless she gave him a good check over after I told them what advice you had given, he had a good listen to his heart twice and said that she can’t hear a murmur which if it’s true- I’m happy about that. She also gave his lungs a good listen to and she said that she can hear a crackle on his left one slightly so has prescribed him some metacalm and antibiotics to take.
I just hope and pray that they help and going to return if these don’t help.
She did say that in cardiac problems it is fatal and for a Guinea pig to have a X-ray it would require sedation which she said would be high risk for Ed? Coming away I just assumed it was because he was an older piggy, and she explained that maybe think about PTS if his condition becomes worse and the medication doesn’t work? I mean, if that’s in his best interest to not be in pain and be suffering I suppose we will have to take that route but do you think this is the correct info given?

Thanks again! X

Hi
Please give the antibiotic and the metacam and take it from there if the vet has discovered a problem in the lungs. There are heart meds for guinea pigs now if that turns out to be what is needed but you have to take it step by step. Heart problems are a lot less easy to diagnose so you always start with the more obvious things if there is any indication for them. Don't fixate on a maybe that could not be even in play and only tackle it when it becomes relevant.

Your boy may not like his antibiotic, especially if you have been given baytril; vet medication is mostly unflavoured with the exception of metacam. If you struggle, here is our illustrated guide with all the how-to tips for medicating uncooperative piggies and how you monitor their weight/food intake during an illness and plan any support care: All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

Here is our list of recommended vets for guinea pig owners in case you need it: Recommended Guinea Pig Vets

 

[Jessika Wilson]

Hi
Please give the antibiotic and the metacam and take it from there if the vet has discovered a problem in the lungs. There are heart meds for guinea pigs now if that turns out to be what is needed but you have to take it step by step. Heart problems are a lot less easy to diagnose so you always start with the more obvious things if there is any indication for them. Don't fixate on a maybe that could not be even in play and only tackle it when it becomes relevant.

Your boy may not like his antibiotic, especially if you have been given baytril; vet medication is mostly unflavoured with the exception of metacam. If you struggle, here is our illustrated guide with all the how-to tips for medicating uncooperative piggies and how you monitor their weight/food intake during an illness and plan any support care: All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

Here is our list of recommended vets for guinea pig owners in case you need it: Recommended Guinea Pig Vets

Hi!
Sorry for the late reply, I lost my grandma over the weekend and life has been a little bit hectic since.

So, Ed was given Co Trimoxazole and Metacam and his treatment was given for just 5 days so he finished his medication yesterday, although he does seem much better in himself and is still eating, drinking, pooing okay and getting mardy when he sees us prepping his food and it’s not coming quick enough but he is still sucking in slightly when he is breathing when he is sat still. He doesn’t seem to do it when running around and eating which is strange. I also have noticed that the gurgling noise has stopped so I’m hoping that’s a positive

The vet said it was only a slight crackle in his lungs so the 4.2ml antibiotic x2 daily and the metacam 5.5ml x1 daily should do the trick.

The issue I have now is they want to do an X-ray and the vet said she would be hesitant to give Ed the sedation for them to do this. I hate making decisions at the best of times so I don’t know what to do in this situation, I’d hate to do nothing and him get worse but if equally if I send him for an X-ray and he passes I’ll forever feel guilt.

If anyone could recommend what they would do in this situation it would be greatly appreciated

 

[Wiebke]

Hi!
Sorry for the late reply, I lost my grandma over the weekend and life has been a little bit hectic since.

So, Ed was given Co Trimoxazole and Metacam and his treatment was given for just 5 days so he finished his medication yesterday, although he does seem much better in himself and is still eating, drinking, pooing okay and getting mardy when he sees us prepping his food and it’s not coming quick enough but he is still sucking in slightly when he is breathing when he is sat still. He doesn’t seem to do it when running around and eating which is strange. I also have noticed that the gurgling noise has stopped so I’m hoping that’s a positive

The vet said it was only a slight crackle in his lungs so the 4.2ml antibiotic x2 daily and the metacam 5.5ml x1 daily should do the trick.

The issue I have now is they want to do an X-ray and the vet said she would be hesitant to give Ed the sedation for them to do this. I hate making decisions at the best of times so I don’t know what to do in this situation, I’d hate to do nothing and him get worse but if equally if I send him for an X-ray and he passes I’ll forever feel guilt.

If anyone could recommend what they would do in this situation it would be greatly appreciated

Hi

I am ever so sorry about your loss. What a horrible time for you.

The problem with fully conscious x-rays is that a piggy often needs to be arranged on the plate in a specific and rather uncomfortable way for a good x-picture and it is very difficult to achieve that without sedation.
If you and your vet have concerns re. an x-ray, perhaps your vet would be willing to prescribe another course of antibiotics and then review again whether an x-ray is really needed?

PS: I assume that respective the dosages are 0.42 ml and 0.55 ml? Cotrimoxazole is better known as bactrim (USA) or sulfatrim (UK). It is licensed for guinea pigs under the latter name.

 

[Jessika Wilson]

Hi

I am ever so sorry about your loss. What a horrible time for you.

The problem with fully conscious x-rays is that a piggy often needs to be arranged on the plate in a specific and rather uncomfortable way for a good x-picture and it is very difficult to achieve that without sedation.
If you and your vet have concerns re. an x-ray, perhaps your vet would be willing to prescribe another course of antibiotics and then review again whether an x-ray is really needed?

PS: I assume that respective the dosages are 0.42 ml and 0.55 ml? Cotrimoxazole is better known as bactrim (USA) or sulfatrim (UK). It is licensed for guinea pigs under the latter name.

Thank you it’s not been the nicest week!

The vet said it would be hard to do without the sedation to get a proper look to identify exactly what’s going on. Yes! So sorry, I meant 0.42 and 0.55- that’s a BIG difference in what I put
If he needs more antibiotics I would absolutely take him to the vets to get some more, I just don’t have lots of money to spend backwards and forwards to the vet as selfish as that sounds as I am on mat leave at the minute. With our last piggy who had bladder stones in the end we spent £800 getting treatment non which worked and he passed away a few weeks later and although I will do anything I can to make him better I am unfortunately not in the same financial situation as I was then I mean in a few months I will be when I’m back working but I’m sure he doesn’t have that long to wait

Does the 5 day course sound right to you? I didn’t know if that was a little short?

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you it’s not been the nicest week!

The vet said it would be hard to do without the sedation to get a proper look to identify exactly what’s going on. Yes! So sorry, I meant 0.42 and 0.55- that’s a BIG difference in what I put
If he needs more antibiotics I would absolutely take him to the vets to get some more, I just don’t have lots of money to spend backwards and forwards to the vet as selfish as that sounds as I am on mat leave at the minute. With our last piggy who had bladder stones in the end we spent £800 getting treatment non which worked and he passed away a few weeks later and although I will do anything I can to make him better I am unfortunately not in the same financial situation as I was then I mean in a few months I will be when I’m back working but I’m sure he doesn’t have that long to wait

Does the 5 day course sound right to you? I didn’t know if that was a little short?

It would certainly be worth to enquire whether a second course would be worth it. 5 days is a bit short. if symptoms recur/persist after a second round, then you can get into further diagnostics.

Most vets offer a payment plan so it is worth enquiring. I am sorry that things are so stressful for you right now.