Possible IC guinea pig?

[squigpopwinchoc]

Hi, I am new to the forum and have a 5 year old guinea pig (sow) who seems to have persistent bladder issues for years. We have been through two vets, one who wasn’t very specialised with guinea pigs in my opinion therefore we changed to the local exotic vet. The vet before did an X-ray to rule out stones as my poor sow keeps squeaking when peeing/pooing but has no other symptoms. They did not find anything and diagnosed her over the years with bloat and UTI’s. They did find that her bladder lining had thickened which she then temporarily helped us with i think Metacam but I can’t really remember as this was quite a long time ago.
I then took her to the local exotic vet as I thought she could not be cured and she was so happy as a piggie when not squeaking in pain but after a period of time I thought enough was enough- They had to do surgery as Ovarian cysticis was confirmed. Fortunately she recovered fully after 2 weeks and I thought the squeaking could be over. Unfortunately this wasn’t the case. She had the surgery in September 2020 and is still squeaking when peeing/pooing. We have had multiple vet visits trying to diagnose what this bladder issue is. We had another X-ray which again ruled out stones after the surgery and the vets wanted to do another surgery to look if there could be anything cancerous and they wanted to send a tissue sample to the labs. I politely said no as she has been under anaesthetic so many times in her life I am so worried she wouldn’t wake up especially due to her age- the vet agreed. They also asked if I wanted to euthanise her but i also politely denied as she is so happy despite the squeaking. She is now on Loxicom 0.3 ml a day. I asked the vets about cystease as I have read that many IC guinea pigs have used this with great results but they told me just yesterday that it is not entirely vegetarian so they don’t feel comfortable feeding this to her. We see the vets again for a check up on April the 1st and I was wondering if anyone had any advice on how I can help her when she is in pain. I feed kale, mixed bell peppers, cucumber, celery, coriander,parsley and sometimes carrots. They get fruit very rarely. I don’t give filtered water.
Sorry for the long post, I hope people have some advice they can lend me. Thank you for reading

 

[Claire W]

I’m not sure that’s entirely true about the cystease not being vegetarian? I’ve had two piggies now who had IC and both were treated with cystease and metacam as have many other IC piggies.

If stones and uti has been ruled out, it does sound like she could be suffering from IC. Has she ever had a urine culture done to check for bacteria thus seeing which antibiotic the bacteria if any is sensitive too? If not, I suggest you mention this to your vet just to rule out uti.

She certainly does not need to be pts if she is happy and healthy apart from the squeaking.

You may want to stop feeding her kale and parsley as these are both high in calcium also please consider filtering the drinking water as unfiltered water (especially if you live in a hard water area) also contains a lot of calcium which can make bladder problems worse

 

[squigpopwinchoc]

I’m not sure that’s entirely true about the cystease not being vegetarian? I’ve had two piggies now who had IC and both were treated with cystease and metacam as have many other IC piggies.

If stones and uti has been ruled out, it does sound like she could be suffering from IC. Has she ever had a urine culture done to check for bacteria thus seeing which antibiotic the bacteria if any is sensitive too? If not, I suggest you mention this to your vet just to rule out uti.

She certainly does not need to be pts if she is happy and healthy apart from the squeaking.

You may want to stop feeding her kale and parsley as these are both high in calcium also please consider filtering the drinking water as unfiltered water (especially if you live in a hard water area) also contains a lot of calcium which can make bladder problems worse

thank you for your reply i will defo try and get a water filter as soon as and yes i forgot to mention she has been under anaesthetic this year In February and a sample from her bladder was taken. They found no infection which made me more confused. I will also cut out kale and parsley and see if it makes any difference thank you for your advice
I will ask the vets on Monday about the cystease again as they did want to hear an update after I took my sow yesterday.

 

[Claire W]

If there’s no infection then yes, it does point towards IC which can only be managed and not cured x

 

[squigpopwinchoc]

If there’s no infection then yes, it does point towards IC which can only be managed and not cured x

thank you for your help x

 

[Wiebke]

Hi, I am new to the forum and have a 5 year old guinea pig (sow) who seems to have persistent bladder issues for years. We have been through two vets, one who wasn’t very specialised with guinea pigs in my opinion therefore we changed to the local exotic vet. The vet before did an X-ray to rule out stones as my poor sow keeps squeaking when peeing/pooing but has no other symptoms. They did not find anything and diagnosed her over the years with bloat and UTI’s. They did find that her bladder lining had thickened which she then temporarily helped us with i think Metacam but I can’t really remember as this was quite a long time ago.
I then took her to the local exotic vet as I thought she could not be cured and she was so happy as a piggie when not squeaking in pain but after a period of time I thought enough was enough- They had to do surgery as Ovarian cysticis was confirmed. Fortunately she recovered fully after 2 weeks and I thought the squeaking could be over. Unfortunately this wasn’t the case. She had the surgery in September 2020 and is still squeaking when peeing/pooing. We have had multiple vet visits trying to diagnose what this bladder issue is. We had another X-ray which again ruled out stones after the surgery and the vets wanted to do another surgery to look if there could be anything cancerous and they wanted to send a tissue sample to the labs. I politely said no as she has been under anaesthetic so many times in her life I am so worried she wouldn’t wake up especially due to her age- the vet agreed. They also asked if I wanted to euthanise her but i also politely denied as she is so happy despite the squeaking. She is now on Loxicom 0.3 ml a day. I asked the vets about cystease as I have read that many IC guinea pigs have used this with great results but they told me just yesterday that it is not entirely vegetarian so they don’t feel comfortable feeding this to her. We see the vets again for a check up on April the 1st and I was wondering if anyone had any advice on how I can help her when she is in pain. I feed kale, mixed bell peppers, cucumber, celery, coriander,parsley and sometimes carrots. They get fruit very rarely. I don’t give filtered water.
Sorry for the long post, I hope people have some advice they can lend me. Thank you for reading

HI!

Cystease is a cat bladder supplement but the crucial ingredient is the carrier product, which is ground sea shells; so while not vegetarian, it is NOT a meat based product, either. It can be safely given to guinea pigs (my Breila has been on it for two years now) but if you prefer to use vegan/vegetarian glucosamine tablets instead, then that is your free choice.
The carrier allows better uptake and piggies usually like the taste of cystease capsule powder much more than that of human tablets, which are designed to be swallowed whole by humans and therefore don't have to taste nice. Apart from ease of dosing and mixing (no grinding up and mental maths for portioning), all these aspects have gone into our recommendation but it is just a recommendation.

Your diet is higher in calcium than we would normally recommend but your girl doesn't seem to have any further underlying issues contribute to the formation of stones and is fairly unlikely to start doing so now; so it is your choice. What IC piggies sometimes struggle with is new foods being introduced like fresh growing grass in spring. It can sometimes trigger an acute bout so you have to introduce it slowly in small amounts at first.

Acute flares (the squeaking phases) are generally best treated with upping the metacam dosage. I have also found that doubling the dosage of the glucosamine (1 capsule in the morning and 1 in the evening instead of half a capsule) seems to get on top of squeaking more quickly than just upping the metacam. Your first aim is to get on top of the squeaking, which may take a few weeks as the glucosamine takes time to build up but it is worth persisting as milder IC is not life shortening and your girl is well enough to live a perfectly normal life.

 

[squigpopwinchoc]

HI!

Cystease is a cat bladder supplement but the crucial ingredient is the carrier product, which is ground sea shells; so while not vegetarian, it is NOT a meat based product, either. It can be safely given to guinea pigs (my Breila has been on it for two years now) but if you prefer to use vegan/vegetarian glucosamine tablets instead, then that is your free choice.
The carrier allows better uptake and piggies usually like the taste of cystease capsule powder much more than that of human tablets, which are designed to be swallowed whole by humans and therefore don't have to taste nice. Apart from ease of dosing and mixing (no grinding up and mental maths for portioning), all these aspects have gone into our recommendation but it is just a recommendation.

Your diet is higher in calcium than we would normally recommend but your girl doesn't seem to have any further underlying issues contribute to the formation of stones and is fairly unlikely to start doing so now; so it is your choice. What IC piggies sometimes struggle with is new foods being introduced like fresh growing grass in spring. It can sometimes trigger an acute bout so you have to introduce it slowly in small amounts at first.

Acute flares (the squeaking phases) are generally best treated with upping the metacam dosage. I have also found that doubling the dosage of the glucosamine (1 capsule in the morning and 1 in the evening instead of half a capsule) seems to get on top of squeaking more quickly than just upping the metacam. Your first aim is to get on top of the squeaking, which may take a few weeks as the glucosamine takes time to build up but it is worth persisting as milder IC is not life shortening and your girl is well enough to live a perfectly normal life.

thank you so much for your reply, it has really helped. My girl did have a phase in summer where i let her onto fresh grass before I knew about this IC stuff (clearly huge mistake!) and she couldn’t stop squeaking so that explains it all.
I will talk to the vet hopefully tomorrow about glucosamine and cystease and hopefully persist on letting me give one to her as I have read your forum so many times before actually signing up about my girls problem. Can you give both or is it just one or the other?
I am going to cut parsley and kale and carrot out of the picture, do you have any low calcium veggie recommendations?
At the moment my girl is on 0.3 ml of loxicom a day, 0.15 split between morning and evening. The vet said this is the most she can increase to so I may have to query maybe using a different sort of pain killer/anti inflammatory?
Again thank you so much for the reply it has really helped

 

[Wiebke]

thank you so much for your reply, it has really helped. My girl did have a phase in summer where i let her onto fresh grass before I knew about this IC stuff (clearly huge mistake!) and she couldn’t stop squeaking so that explains it all.
I will talk to the vet hopefully tomorrow about glucosamine and cystease and hopefully persist on letting me give one to her as I have read your forum so many times before actually signing up about my girls problem. Can you give both or is it just one or the other?
I am going to cut parsley and kale and carrot out of the picture, do you have any low calcium veggie recommendations?
At the moment my girl is on 0.3 ml of loxicom a day, 0.15 split between morning and evening. The vet said this is the most she can increase to so I may have to query maybe using a different sort of pain killer/anti inflammatory?
Again thank you so much for the reply it has really helped

You need a presciption for metacam (or of the generic brand names of the same medication, like loxicom or meloxidyl), preferably dog loxicom instead of cat loxicom (dog is three times stronger than cat) as you may have to give fairly high dosages. I can't comment on dosages until I know which strength. But you can give a 1 kg piggy safely up to 0.4 ml of dog and 1.2 ml of cat metacam twice daily if they are in really major pain. Unlike other pet species, guinea pigs tolerate metacam much better in terms of long term kidney function. Please always give it every 12 hours because of the much faster metabolism. 0.15 ml cat metacam twice daily would be more in the cosmetic range of dosages and in the low range of dog dosages for an adult piggy.

Glucosamine is classed as a food supplement and not as medication; you do not need a vet prescription although we generally recommend to discuss the use of glucosamine with your vet. You can get it widely online when you google for either Feliway cat cystease capsules or for vegetarian glucosamine (Hollands &Barretts have it) but you can likely find it on ebay, too.
Sterile IC seems to affect especially the natural glucosamine coating of the urinary tract that prevents the very corrosive urine from coming into contact with raw tissue. It REALLY stings and burns if you have ever accidentally got urine on a fresh scratch on your hand!

 

[squigpopwinchoc]

You need a presciption for metacam (or of the generic brand names of the same medication, like loxicom or meloxidyl), preferably dog loxicom instead of cat loxicom (dog is three times stronger than cat) as you may have to give fairly high dosages. I can't comment on dosages until I know which strength. But you can give a 1 kg piggy safely up to 0.4 ml of dog and 1.2 ml of cat metacam twice daily if they are in really major pain. Unlike other pet species, guinea pigs tolerate metacam much better in terms of long term kidney function. Please always give it every 12 hours because of the much faster metabolism. 0.15 ml cat metacam twice daily would be more in the cosmetic range of dosages and in the low range of dog dosages for an adult piggy.

Glucosamine is classed as a food supplement and not as medication; you do not need a vet prescription although we generally recommend to discuss the use of glucosamine with your vet. You can get it widely online when you google for either Feliway cat cystease capsules or for vegetarian glucosamine (Hollands &Barretts have it) but you can likely find it on ebay, too.
Sterile IC seems to affect especially the natural glucosamine coating of the urinary tract that prevents the very corrosive urine from coming into contact with raw tissue. It REALLY stings and burns if you have ever accidentally got urine on a fresh scratch on your hand!

thank you for this, my girl is on 0.15 dog metacam twice daily every 12 hours and I hear he squeak more than I did when I gave her 0.3 ml in one syringe. I will ask the vet about her weight and see if I can get the dose any higher, and will also ask them what they think about glucosamine and cystease asap. thank you

 

[Wiebke]

thank you for this, my girl is on 0.15 dog metacam twice daily every 12 hours and I hear he squeak more than I did when I gave her 0.3 ml in one syringe. I will ask the vet about her weight and see if I can get the dose any higher, and will also ask them what they think about glucosamine and cystease asap. thank you

We strongly recommend that you weigh your guinea pigs once weekly as part of life-long weight monitoring together with a body check in order to spot developing problems early on. Normal kitchen scales from the supermarket will do for the purpose.
How To Pick Up And Weigh Your Guinea Pig Safely
Weight - Monitoring and Management
Guinea pig body quirks - What is normal and what not?

 

[squigpopwinchoc]

We strongly recommend that you weigh your guinea pigs once weekly as part of life-long weight monitoring together with a body check in order to spot developing problems early on. Normal kitchen scales from the supermarket will do for the purpose.
How To Pick Up And Weigh Your Guinea Pig Safely
Weight - Monitoring and Management
Guinea pig body quirks - What is normal and what not?

I will start doing that thank you! just an update, I called the vets today about the cystease and glucosamine and we are going to try a product that is very similar to cystease. It apparently has not been used on guinea pigs before only dogs cats and horses but the company of the medicine said that the ingredients do not go against the guinea pig diet and she should be fine. She said that glucosamine will only really help my girl with her joints so there wasn’t any point feeding her that to help her bladder?