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Possible Heart Problem For Toast.

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Beans&Toast

Beans&Toast

Adult Guinea Pig
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I haven't really been on here in ages. I've been so busy travelling with work then my Mum's been really ill on top of the pigs being ill too :(


I have a horrible feeling Toast has a heart problem.


For well over 6 months now she's been making the hooting/crackling sounds accompanied with rapid breathing, even if she's just lying down relaxing.

She's been checked for URI various times and all 3 exotic specialist vets have said she sounds okay and the sound could just be from some kind of scar tissue? (I think that's what he meant)

She's had a heart xray and I was told her heart doesn't seem enlarged nor does there appear to be a build up of fluid.

The sounds she makes at home, she has never made them at the vets.
She's constantly hooting/rattling theb coughing every now and again especially when eating, she's also very fluffed up most of the time and she's recently started pawing at her mouth and chewing weird sometimes (but not all the time). She clearly has another dental issue but as she doesn't cope well under anesthetic normally, I'm quite reluctant to put her under again when I can't shake the feeling there's an under lying heart issue.


Maybe I'm wrong. In fact I hope I am, but I've really done at lot of research on heart issues with pigs and it just seems like everything points to it with Toast.


Where do I go from here?
My vet mentioned trying another kind of scan but I've already spent well over 6 grand on Toast now I just cannot afford to keep shelling out for things that aren't giving results.

I've read on Guinea Lynx that the treatment for a heart issue can be given on a 2 week trial to see if it helps, can I ask my vet for this?

Or could it be something else entirely? So stuck with this one :(
 
Is there a way you can tape the sound & then play it to the vet.

I was convinced my 13yr daughter had whooping cough & they kept saying no it's not that.
Taped her coughing & finally he agreed. So it would get you sorted hopefully
 
I have tried to record it before but the sound from my phone is really loud, so you cant hear the hooting over the white noise sound from my phone.

I did find a video of a pig with hear problems who was hooting and it is the exact same sound that toast makes so I might let them hear that and see what they say..
 
I'm thinking the grunty sounds and the coughing are due to her dental issue rather than a respiratory or heart issue. When teeth are becoming overgrown, it's harder to manipulate the food around the mouth and sometimes it temporarily obstructs the airway. I've seen this happen many times.
 
Definitely record it for the vet as suggested. Sometimes it's impossible to get to the vet when something happens, and vets do appreciate it if you can provide them with something.

The vet could try an antibiotic if they suspect an infection. Most like to do that first to rule it out.

A diuretic would be handy. Crackling suggests that their is something in her airway, whether it's her lungs or nasal area so a diuretic would help there.

If the vet is reluctant to try that, as many are when there's no sign of fluid on the lungs then it would be worth asking about nebulising.

One of my boys had a URI a few times after I got him. The Baytril chased it away but he had noisy breathing on and off for the rest of his life. I have a great vet who looked at him regularly and was 100% he didn't have a URI. So, we used a nebuliser to help him on his tougher days. It was fab, really helped him lots.

He was already on a diuretic for his bladder sludge issues so we ruled out heart problems too.
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
I'm thinking the grunty sounds and the coughing are due to her dental issue rather than a respiratory or heart issue. When teeth are becoming overgrown, it's harder to manipulate the food around the mouth and sometimes it temporarily obstructs the airway. I've seen this happen many times.
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Really? But what about the fast breathing? The hooting has been going on since before her dental issue (she's had many dentals in the past though). She's been chewing fine until about 1 weeks ago and it's on and off now.

He had a look at her teeth as best he could without GA and said her incisors were around 1mm overgrown but given how badly she reacts to GA he wouldn't want too jump in and file them unless absolutely needed.... she manages to chew but some of the thicker bits of hay she's struggling with now.

I'm just worried about the anesthetic, she takes over a week to recover and ended up with gut stasis last time due to it
 
Jaycey said:
Definitely record it for the vet as suggested. Sometimes it's impossible to get to the vet when something happens, and vets do appreciate it if you can provide them with something.

The vet could try an antibiotic if they suspect an infection. Most like to do that first to rule it out.

A diuretic would be handy. Crackling suggests that their is something in her airway, whether it's her lungs or nasal area so a diuretic would help there.

If the vet is reluctant to try that, as many are when there's no sign of fluid on the lungs then it would be worth asking about nebulising.

One of my boys had a URI a few times after I got him. The Baytril chased it away but he had noisy breathing on and off for the rest of his life. I have a great vet who looked at him regularly and was 100% he didn't have a URI. So, we used a nebuliser to help him on his tougher days. It was fab, really helped him lots.

He was already on a diuretic for his bladder sludge issues so we ruled out heart problems too.
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Thank you. Only issue is we're really restricted with medication. She can't have Baytril, Septrin or Sulfatrim, she went lifeless before when she's been given these.

I use steam and olbas oil already and it doesn't make a difference to her breathing :(

She's not got a runny nose and he's happy it's not a URI. Its completely stumped me on this one.
 
My boy didn't have a runny nose either.

As he's had URI's earlier in life his air passages were a bit compromised. And as their pipes are so tiny anyway, the slightest irritation (dust, a draught, a bit of hay) would cause him to breathe heavily.

Steam didn't help him either but a few rounds in his nebuliser really helped. They need something to dislodge the obstruction.

Debbie makes a really good point about teeth though. They can't breath through their noises like we can when we eat, so any problems in their mouth with affect their breathing.
 
Struggling to chew suggests back teeth issues. You need to find a vet who can sort out her teeth consciously, or travel to Northampton.
 
Beans&Toast said:
Really? But what about the fast breathing? The hooting has been going on since before her dental issue (she's had many dentals in the past though). She's been chewing fine until about 1 weeks ago and it's on and off now.

He had a look at her teeth as best he could without GA and said her incisors were around 1mm overgrown but given how badly she reacts to GA he wouldn't want too jump in and file them unless absolutely needed.... she manages to chew but some of the thicker bits of hay she's struggling with now.

I'm just worried about the anesthetic, she takes over a week to recover and ended up with gut stasis last time due to it
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Dental pigs are also more likely to aspirate food too. I really think first port of call needs to be a good examination of the teeth. A brewing abscess can cause some obstruction of the nasal passage too, so that could make the breathing grunty and more obvious. I may be totally wrong but this is all screaming 'dental' at me.
 
Jaycey said:
Struggling to chew suggests back teeth issues. You need to find a vet who can sort out her teeth consciously, or travel to Northampton.
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I've phoned several vets about concious dentals and none of them are willing to do it with Toast unfortunately. She has an abnormally small mouth and is the most nervous/anxious guinea pig I've ever known. She's on a high does of Amitriptyline to help with anxiety as she gets constant cystitis from getting to easily stressed.

My vet attempted a concious dental once before but stopped as he was worried she was going to have a heart attack.


If it's looking more like a dental issue causing the hooting as opposed to a heart issue then I'd go ahead with the anesthesic. He said he'd do it a different way this time, jusy a very quick wiff of gas...?
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
Dental pigs are also more likely to aspirate food too. I really think first port of call needs to be a good examination of the teeth. A brewing abscess can cause some obstruction of the nasal passage too, so that could make the breathing grunty and more obvious. I may be totally wrong but this is all screaming 'dental' at me.
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Thanks I really appreciate it. I hope it is dental, my fear was heart so I'd rather a dental issues if anything
 
Tiamolly123 said:
Can I they not give her a sedative to keep her calm
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That's what I've been wondering too actually.

Although she's had bupronorphine (don't think that's how you spell that) before and it completely knocked her for a week, wouldn't move or eat after it.

That's why I'm getting so panicked, she responds so badly to so many medications I don't know what is the best thing to do
 
if you can write everything that toast is allergic to, & tell her she can't have that, I'm sure they must have something toast could give. You don't want a sedative that knocks her out, just something that makes her happy
 
So my vet has just phoned, he's going to get her in tomorrow morning and she's first on the list so she won't be waiting too long.

This will be her 5th dental she's had in the space of just over a year, they are getting further and further apart so I'm really hoping this will be the last time. I'm terrified for her, she's reacted so badly to every anesthetic, worse every time actually but no vets will treat her conscious and I live in Scotland so going to Northampton isn't even a remote possibility.

He said he won't use the injectables (if that's right?) this time as he thinks that's what's caused the issues before, instead just a whiff of gas, as little as possible to get the job done.
 
Good luck for tomorrow :) Try to avoid Buprenorphine if at all possible, it can make their recovery slow & they seem very out of it for a while after. Has he tried Tramodol with her as alternative pain relief? Obviously you need to check it won't clash with her other meds x
 
I am usually the first to think heart but if the x-ray is clear I am going with Debbie and saying it sounds more like her dental issues.
 
Poppy'sMum said:
Good luck for tomorrow :) Try to avoid Buprenorphine if at all possible, it can make their recovery slow & they seem very out of it for a while after. Has he tried Tramodol with her as alternative pain relief? Obviously you need to check it won't clash with her other meds x
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Thank you :) Buprenorphine doesn't agree with her at all, she stopped eating after being given that, same with other opiates. Loxicom and Amitriptyline seem to be the only medications for pain that agree with her.
 
Hope alls going well at the vets. Fingers &paws all crossed here for a full &speedy recovery little toast :wub:

Here's hoping its a dental issue that's sorted today (but dont panic if it does turn out to be heart related- with a bit of meds tweaking it can be manageable).

C'mon toast. You can do it :luv:
Xx
 
That's Toast home.


The difference between this dental and all the others is night and day.
Every other time she's completely zoned out for days, doesn't eat for herself and doesn't move meaning she's sitting in her own urine.

This time, I put her carrier into the cage and off she went for a wander, she's munching hay and pepper. She's a bit skittish but other than that she's doing so well.


My vet was ridiculously busy today with emergencies so didn't have time to fully explain everything, only that she's doing well and her molars were ever so slightly over grown. He did say that the xray showed elongated roots... he has planned to phone me later tonight and fully explain everything.


So what's the deal with elongated roots? How does this happen, can it be fixed, is it serious?
 
Beans&Toast said:
That's Toast home.


The difference between this dental and all the others is night and day.
Every other time she's completely zoned out for days, doesn't eat for herself and doesn't move meaning she's sitting in her own urine.

This time, I put her carrier into the cage and off she went for a wander, she's munching hay and pepper. She's a bit skittish but other than that she's doing so well.


My vet was ridiculously busy today with emergencies so didn't have time to fully explain everything, only that she's doing well and her molars were ever so slightly over grown. He did say that the xray showed elongated roots... he has planned to phone me later tonight and fully explain everything.


So what's the deal with elongated roots? How does this happen, can it be fixed, is it serious?
Click to expand...

Good to hear she is home and eating again.
Tagging @furryfriends (TEAS) who may be able to tell you more.
 
Almost every guinea pig who arrives at TEAS with dental issues has been diagnosed with elongated roots. We have yet to find elongated roots a problem at all! Often they look elongated because of the angle the x ray is taken from but in reality they are of normal length. The crowns of the teeth are what matter and if they are right, then the guinea pig will eat well and do fine.
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
Almost every guinea pig who arrives at TEAS with dental issues has been diagnosed with elongated roots. We have yet to find elongated roots a problem at all! Often they look elongated because of the angle the x ray is taken from but in reality they are of normal length. The crowns of the teeth are what matter and if they are right, then the guinea pig will eat well and do fine.
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Really? I went into panic mode and Googled it, seen things about pigs having to be PTS because the roots are growing into the gums? Or having to have the teeth filed every few weeks?

That's reassuring then, thanks. She's doing so well now, you'd never know she had anesthetic a few hours ago.
 
I am constantly told by people that their vet has said euthanasia is the only option as tooth roots are growing into the jaw bone. Well, all I can say to that is 'thank f**k for that, as if they weren't, the teeth would just fall out! Tooth roots are meant to grow into jaw bone, that is how they are anchored securely in. It does seem to be the general consensus that tooth roots are the main reason for dental problems, but this is not the case at all. Simon has always said, if you get the crowns of the teeth right, then the piggy can eat and start to wear their teeth for themselves. I have also lost count of the number of dislocated jaws that are diagnosed by other vets, but when they have arrived here it's the teeth that are pushing the jaw out of alignment, and not the fact that the jaw is dislocated.
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
I am constantly told by people that their vet has said euthanasia is the only option as tooth roots are growing into the jaw bone. Well, all I can say to that is 'thank f**k for that, as if they weren't, the teeth would just fall out! Tooth roots are meant to grow into jaw bone, that is how they are anchored securely in. It does seem to be the general consensus that tooth roots are the main reason for dental problems, but this is not the case at all. Simon has always said, if you get the crowns of the teeth right, then the piggy can eat and start to wear their teeth for themselves. I have also lost count of the number of dislocated jaws that are diagnosed by other vets, but when they have arrived here it's the teeth that are pushing the jaw out of alignment, and not the fact that the jaw is dislocated.
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Thanks. My vet didn't say PTS, that was just me searching Google (never a good idea).

So if the teeth have been filed down properly then there no need to worry?
 
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