Possible arthritis?

[Sophia_Oreo108]

Hi,

I have recently noticed that Fudge has been hobbling and sometimes hopping like a bunny when walking as well as laying and sitting down much more. She has just turned 3 and is a girl by the way. It seems like she has got a problem with her back legs or has stiff joints and we suspect it is arthritis. When I hold her and touch her legs and hips she doesn't seem to be in any pain but is still a bit wobbly. Of course I will take her to the vets when I can but their appointments are full unless it is an absolute emergency. For now, is there anything that can be fed to help her or any veggies that are good for arthritis. Also what experiences have other people had with piggies that have arthritis (should I be particularly concerned at the moment)? I really can't bear losing her so soon after losing her sister Oreo.

Any responses and advice would be really helpful! Thanks.

 

[Siikibam]

There isn’t anything you can feed that can help unfortunately. There are a few piggies on here who have arthritis and are on long term anti inflammatory. Hopefully someone with more experience will be along to answer you.

 

[Sophia_Oreo108]

There isn’t anything you can feed that can help unfortunately. There are a few piggies on here who have arthritis and are on long term anti inflammatory. Hopefully someone with more experience will be along to answer you.

Ok thank you, she doesn't look like she is in pain, just walking funny sometimes after being sat down for a long time.

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

I would book a vet appointment as soon as you can. Bunny hopping and laying down more than usual are signs of pain/discomfort. It may or may not be to do with her legs or arthritis, abdominal pain also can sometimes cause these behaviours, only a vet will be able to make a diagnosis. Perhaps if they won't see you due to vivid you could have a phone consultation?

 

[Wiebke]

Hi,

I have recently noticed that Fudge has been hobbling and sometimes hopping like a bunny when walking as well as laying and sitting down much more. She has just turned 3 and is a girl by the way. It seems like she has got a problem with her back legs or has stiff joints and we suspect it is arthritis. When I hold her and touch her legs and hips she doesn't seem to be in any pain but is still a bit wobbly. Of course I will take her to the vets when I can but their appointments are full unless it is an absolute emergency. For now, is there anything that can be fed to help her or any veggies that are good for arthritis. Also what experiences have other people had with piggies that have arthritis (should I be particularly concerned at the moment)? I really can't bear losing her so soon after losing her sister Oreo.

Any responses and advice would be really helpful! Thanks.

Hi!

Your girl will need access to a vet. She is rather young for arthritis, to be honest unless she is one of the few piggies with polyarthritis.
She should also be checked for symptoms of scurvy (potential vitamin C deficiency); only a hands-on vet examination will tell. Treating on spec can potentially more harm than good. Other concerns can also apply.
Weigh daily and step in with feeding support if necessary. Follow the tips and advice for bridging care.

You can find practical care tips in this link here but the sooner you can get her booked in, the better.
Looking after guinea pigs with limited or no mobility
Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

How Soon Should My Guinea Pig See A Vet? - A Quick Guide
Accessing veterinary care during coronavirus/Covid-19 lockdown

 

[Sophia_Oreo108]

So I've read online that adding more vitamin c to her diet would help. Is this true? Also what foods are high in vitamin C?

I'm not 100% sure that it is arthritis as sometimes she walks normally and other times a bit wobbly. She's often the wobbly version after being sat down for a long time but I'll definitely get her to a vet asap.

I might just be completely over-stressing and she might be walking fine and it was just that once but now I've got it in my mind I cant get it out. Its just really worrying as I've only just lost Oreo and cant bear the thought of losing Fudge or her being ill.

Is she still ok to live outside? Her and walnut have been inside for a couple of nights as it has been -3 degrees anyway. However they are in the middle of the living room and only in their run (which is a bit smaller than I would like it to be) with towels on the floor.

 

[Siikibam]

I think as you’ve brought them inside you may have to wait for it to warm up enough outside before you put them back. We’re they in a hutch or heated shed?

We can’t tell you whether adding more vitamin c to the diet will help. It needs checking out by a vet. Hay, bell pepper and coriander all contain vitamin c and the veg can be fed daily. Hope you get her seen soon.

 

[Wiebke]

So I've read online that adding more vitamin c to her diet would help. Is this true? Also what foods are high in vitamin C?

I'm not 100% sure that it is arthritis as sometimes she walks normally and other times a bit wobbly. She's often the wobbly version after being sat down for a long time but I'll definitely get her to a vet asap.

I might just be completely over-stressing and she might be walking fine and it was just that once but now I've got it in my mind I cant get it out. Its just really worrying as I've only just lost Oreo and cant bear the thought of losing Fudge or her being ill.

Is she still ok to live outside? Her and walnut have been inside for a couple of nights as it has been -3 degrees anyway. However they are in the middle of the living room and only in their run (which is a bit smaller than I would like it to be) with towels on the floor.

That doesn't sound quite typical arthritis at all because arthritis is not an up-and-down issue, it is progressive issue. It doesn't also sound quite typical for scurvy, either.
My money is on a sprain in one of the legs which occasionally gets aggravated with the wrong movement; that is not at all uncommon. But definitely worth a hands-on vet check! Unfortunately, doing your own online research can lead you very easily down the wrong path...

Guinea pigs on a mainly grass hay and grass based diet don't usually suffer from scurvy; fresh growing grass is high in vitamin C and even good quality grass hay still contains enough. Hay and grass being the mainstay of a guinea pig diet is the reason why they never had the need to make their own vitamin C in the first place. Since grass and hay is not part of a human diet, they have been treated as a nutritional non-entity for too long, unfortunately.
Many people still overfeed veg and pellets instead, which can have a long term impact on general health and on longevity because they think that these two are the main food source. But as long as your girls have access to unlimited hay and vitamin C reinforced pellets, they should not be vitamin C deficient.
You can find our current diet advice in this guide here, which looks at diet as a whole and at every food group in detail:
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Good that you have brought your girls inside. This is definitely not a winter for staying outdoors!
Cold Weather Care For Guinea Pigs
Hot Weather Management, Heat Strokes and Fly Strike

 

[Sophia_Oreo108]

That doesn't sound quite typical arthritis at all because arthritis is not an up-and-down issue, it is progressive issue. It doesn't also sound quite typical for scurvy, either.
My money is on a sprain in one of the legs which occasionally gets aggravated with the wrong movement; that is not at all uncommon. But definitely worth a hands-on vet check! Unfortunately, doing your own online research can lead you very easily down the wrong path...

Guinea pigs on a mainly grass hay and grass based diet don't usually suffer from scurvy; fresh growing grass is high in vitamin C and even good quality grass hay still contains enough. Hay and grass being the mainstay of a guinea pig diet is the reason why they never had the need to make their own vitamin C in the first place. Since grass and hay is not part of a human diet, they have been treated as a nutritional non-entity for too long, unfortunately.
Many people still overfeed veg and pellets instead, which can have a long term impact on general health and on longevity because they think that these two are the main food source. But as long as your girls have access to unlimited hay and vitamin C reinforced pellets, they should not be vitamin C deficient.
You can find our current diet advice in this guide here, which looks at diet as a whole and at every food group in detail:
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Good that you have brought your girls inside. This is definitely not a winter for staying outdoors!
Cold Weather Care For Guinea Pigs
Hot Weather Management, Heat Strokes and Fly Strike

Yes, a sprain was my original thought. However she didn't mind at all when I touched any of her legs. Out of interest, what can a vet actually do for a Guinea pig's sprained leg?

 

[Wiebke]

Yes, a sprain was my original thought. However she didn't mind at all when I touched any of her legs. Out of interest, what can a vet actually do for a Guinea pig's sprained leg?

Please keep in mind that the sprain can happen in any joint or muscle from the spine downwards. it is something that many owners completely overlook although they themselves can wrench a shoulder or put their hip out without the lower limbs hurting. Legs in guinea pigs start way up at the joint with the spine.

 

[Sophia_Oreo108]

UPDATE: I've got a vet appointment for Wednesday but is that too long to wait?

 

[Siikibam]

Should be okay. How is she compared to yesterday?

 

[Sophia_Oreo108]

Should be okay. How is she compared to yesterday?

She's absolutely no different from yesterday. If anything I would say slightly better which has really confused me. I haven't seen her 'bunny hop' other than that once. It's a real mystery that I think only the vet can solve after a hands on examination.

 

[Sophia_Oreo108]

She's absolutely no different from yesterday. If anything I would say slightly better which has really confused me. I haven't seen her 'bunny hop' other than that once. It's a real mystery that I think only the vet can solve after a hands on examination.

I take it back, she just 'bunny hop/hobbled' when I went to tuck them in so I've now seen her do that twice.

 

[Pigwhisperer]

This sounds exactly like Silk who was 3 when her arthritis was diagnosed. They are so desperate not to look like easy prey that they'll do anything to hide the pain, so the bunny-hopping probably only happens when you catch them by surprise (so the need to hide quickly is greater than the need to hide pain, if you get what I mean.)

It was certainly quite a while (good 2 or 3 weeks) before we were sure that Silk was moving oddly enough to warrant a vet visit, and she was doing everything else normally.

Even at the vets, it was hard for them to tell what was painful as she didn't want to show it, and they thought it was her hips. It was only when they saw the x-ray that they could see it in her knees. (X-ray was about £180 including a brief general anaesthetic I think.)

She is now on Metacam daily, a low dose of 0.2ml (cat version) suits fine atm, she gets checked over every few months by the vet and her meds reviewed, she's now 4 and a bit and a happy little wheeker.

 

[Sophia_Oreo108]

This sounds exactly like Silk who was 3 when her arthritis was diagnosed. They are so desperate not to look like easy prey that they'll do anything to hide the pain, so the bunny-hopping probably only happens when you catch them by surprise (so the need to hide quickly is greater than the need to hide pain, if you get what I mean.)

It was certainly quite a while (good 2 or 3 weeks) before we were sure that Silk was moving oddly enough to warrant a vet visit, and she was doing everything else normally.

Even at the vets, it was hard for them to tell what was painful as she didn't want to show it, and they thought it was her hips. It was only when they saw the x-ray that they could see it in her knees. (X-ray was about £180 including a brief general anaesthetic I think.)

She is now on Metacam daily, a low dose of 0.2ml (cat version) suits fine atm, she gets checked over every few months by the vet and her meds reviewed, she's now 4 and a bit and a happy little wheeker.

Thank you!
It has helped me so much to hear another very similar experience as I was starting to think she was very poorly because she (probably) has arthritis quite young. As well as put my mind at ease a bit knowing that there is something I can do to help her as of course I dont want her to be in lots of pain.

 

[Hath]

Try taking video of the wobbling and bunny hopping. They're good at hiding it from a vet (my animals always make me look like a liar) and it would be helpful for them to see.
All the best x

 

[Sophia_Oreo108]

Try taking video of the wobbling and bunny hopping. They're good at hiding it from a vet (my animals always make me look like a liar) and it would be helpful for them to see.
All the best x

Ok thanks I definitely will do!

 

[Sophia_Oreo108]

So, turns out I only have a phone call appointment with the vet tomorrow. When I called and told them I think she will need a hands on examination the receptionist said that she (the vet) might say that I need to go in with Fudge anyway though but she might just ask for a video for now. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens tomorrow.

 

[Sophia_Oreo108]

Try taking video of the wobbling and bunny hopping. They're good at hiding it from a vet (my animals always make me look like a liar) and it would be helpful for them to see.
All the best x

Ok thanks I definitely will do!

I'm also really struggling to get a video of her hobbling as I haven't really seen any of this at all today. Well I have but I didn't have my phone anywhere near me and by the time I got it she stopped hobbling. I will keep trying though!

 

[Hath]

I usually leave my phone in a cage and position it to where they're likely to hang around. Then I edit the length out only to leave the section which has the footage I need. Depending on what I am trying to film I might scatter some food around so they're on a go. See what you can do. Otherwise don't worry and good luck for your appointment!

 

[Sophia_Oreo108]

I had the phone appointment and as suspected the vet didn't know what was wrong with Fudge. She could only tell me what I already knew and told me it could either be early signs of arthritis, a sprain, a muscle pull or stiff joints (which is all of the things I had already suspected). Anyway, long story short, she's got another appointment for Friday afternoon- this time it's a hands on examination (which is what she needed in the first place). Fingers crossed that we can get down to the cause of this mystery!
Thanks to everyone that has helped so far!

 

[Sophia_Oreo108]

UPDATE: just been to the vets with Fudge. It wasn't the most useful trip I must say! She said it could either be that shes hurt her leg or because of her age. She acknowledged that she was walking slightly funny but was still running around and apparently even stood up on her back legs and begged for food! Apparently she has no abdominal injuries as that has all been checked so at least we have narrowed it down to just the hips/legs. It was only when she was moving her hip that she wheeked.
Anyway, she's been prescribed anti-inflammatory for a week to see how she gets on. Which brings me to my next question- the medicine is Metacam but looks like it is for cats, is this normal? I have attached a photo of the meds (sorry about the dodgy photo).
Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Piggies&buns]

UPDATE: just been to the vets with Fudge. It wasn't the most useful trip I must say! She said it could either be that shes hurt her leg or because of her age. She acknowledged that she was walking slightly funny but was still running around and apparently even stood up on her back legs and begged for food! Apparently she has no abdominal injuries as that has all been checked so at least we have narrowed it down to just the hips/legs. It was only when she was moving her hip that she wheeked.
Anyway, she's been prescribed anti-inflammatory for a week to see how she gets on. Which brings me to my next question- the medicine is Metacam but looks like it is for cats, is this normal? I have attached a photo of the meds (sorry about the dodgy photo).
Any help would be appreciated.
View attachment 166799

Yes that is right that it says for cats, it’s also licensed for piggies.
It looks like the vet has said for you to give it just once a day - piggies have fast metabolisms and metabolise pains meds within about 12 hours and can also take quite a high dose, so you will have to see how things go with her. It might be that once a day isn’t going to be enough

 

[Sophia_Oreo108]

Ah ok thanks. Yes, it's just 0.21ml once a day but today was a double dose of 0.42ml. The vet said the course should last about 6 days and if she doesn't seem to be back to normal after this then we will have to look into giving it to her long term. I've already given first dose but before I did I was nervous as I had no clue how I was going to get it into her. Turns out I had no need of worrying about that! She was already licking the syringe before I had even put it into her mouth- she loved it and wanted more (which of course I didn't give her).

 

[Pigwhisperer]

Yes that is right that it says for cats, it’s also licensed for piggies.
It looks like the vet has said for you to give it just once a day - piggies have fast metabolisms and metabolise pains meds within about 12 hours and can also take quite a high dose, so you will have to see how things go with her. It might be that once a day isn’t going to be enough

I was worried about this but Silk seems to be ok with having it once a day. I couldn't get the vet to understand about the high metabolism etc so had to go with what they said and she seems fine, it's only if I miss a couple of days in a row that I notice any difference in her behaviour - she stops wheeking for food and won't move around the cage as much. Which suggests the usual dose, as long as I remember to give it!, is fine.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Ah ok thanks. Yes, it's just 0.21ml once a day but today was a double dose of 0.42ml. The vet said the course should last about 6 days and if she doesn't seem to be back to normal after this then we will have to look into giving it to her long term. I've already given first dose but before I did I was nervous as I had no clue how I was going to get it into her. Turns out I had no need of worrying about that! She was already licking the syringe before I had even put it into her mouth- she loved it and wanted more (which of course I didn't give her).

I was worried about this but Silk seems to be ok with having it once a day. I couldn't get the vet to understand about the high metabolism etc so had to go with what they said and she seems fine, it's only if I miss a couple of days in a row that I notice any difference in her behaviour - she stops wheeking for food and won't move around the cage as much. Which suggests the usual dose, as long as I remember to give it!, is fine.

It’s just something to bear in mind if things don’t improve and that they can take higher doses of cat metacam than what you have been prescribed, so there is leeway in managing any pain
Metacam tastes nice and most of them do like it! I’ve never had trouble getting metacam into any of mine....baytril is another matter!