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Poll: what is your experience with bladder stones and removal surgery?

Mikatelyn

Mikatelyn

Junior Guinea Pig
Joined
Nov 4, 2020
Messages
106
Reaction score
187
Points
300
Location
USA
Hi all,
I'm just trying to process what happened today. My piggy, Bunker, started to squawk when urinating yesterday. We realized there was blood in his urine and made an urgent appt w the vet. The vet saw him this morning. Xray showed a 7mm bladder stone. The vet said it was an 80-90% success/survival rate for bladder stone removal surgery. I read somewhere it was more like 80% survival rate for piggies under 2 years of age, 50% for piggies older than that (Bunker's age is unknown, but most likely at least 2 years or older). My vet did not agree with those stats and made it sound a lot more optimistic. So i went for it. The surgery lasted 50 minutes. The vet said it was fairly difficult to remove. Afterwards Bunker's temperature was low (96F at 2 hrs post-op) and took 3 hours to return to normal (100.7), and he was really floppy and weak 3 hrs after surgery. I took him home and he died 15 minutes into the drive home. His rectal temp 10 min after that was 100.5F (in goal range) so I'm pretty sure it wasnt because i didnt keep his temperature regulated.

Some questions that are going through my head:
1. Is it normal for piggies to basically have no muscle tone 3 hour after an anesthetic? He was able to flail a little to being moved, but otherwise kind of floppy.

2. What's everybody's experience with survival rate after this kind of surgery? I feel like i just spent close to $3,000 for essentially what ended up being a euthanasia.

3.I also found a bald spot on his butt about 2cm above his anus. The vet didn't mention anything about it when she examined him and i forgot to ask. Do piggies with bladder stones tend to get sores there from holding still from pain or something?
1000003596.webp

Picture of my beautiful rainbow bridge piggy, Bunker (right) as well as my surviving piggy, Bandit (left)
17363975509312.webp

Thanks in advance for reading.
 
I have no answers for you, I just want to offer my condolences to you.
I'm very sorry you lost him, you could not have known he wouldn't survive.
 
Thanks @fluffysal. You were there to support me last year too, when Bandit's prior cagemate, Bolt was put to sleep for tumors, as well as for my saga with bonding Bandit and Bunker (my now newly passed piggy). I appreciate you.
 
I’m so sorry for your loss.

It sounds to me like his body didn’t cope with anaesthesia. There’s nothing you did wrong ie temperature.

The spot you are referring to just looks to be the grease gland. A normal part of the anatomy.
 
I’m so sorry Bunker didn’t survive the operation.

I unfortunately have also lost a young piggy to a bladder stone. He had the operation on a Friday and passed on the Morning. He just didn’t cope with the anaesthetic.

Sleep tight Bunker ❤️
 
Mikatelyn said:
Hi all,
I'm just trying to process what happened today. My piggy, Bunker, started to squawk when urinating yesterday. We realized there was blood in his urine and made an urgent appt w the vet. The vet saw him this morning. Xray showed a 7mm bladder stone. The vet said it was an 80-90% success/survival rate for bladder stone removal surgery. I read somewhere it was more like 80% survival rate for piggies under 2 years of age, 50% for piggies older than that (Bunker's age is unknown, but most likely at least 2 years or older). My vet did not agree with those stats and made it sound a lot more optimistic. So i went for it. The surgery lasted 50 minutes. The vet said it was fairly difficult to remove. Afterwards Bunker's temperature was low (96F at 2 hrs post-op) and took 3 hours to return to normal (100.7), and he was really floppy and weak 3 hrs after surgery. I took him home and he died 15 minutes into the drive home. His rectal temp 10 min after that was 100.5F (in goal range) so I'm pretty sure it wasnt because i didnt keep his temperature regulated.

Some questions that are going through my head:
1. Is it normal for piggies to basically have no muscle tone 3 hour after an anesthetic? He was able to flail a little to being moved, but otherwise kind of floppy.

2. What's everybody's experience with survival rate after this kind of surgery? I feel like i just spent close to $3,000 for essentially what ended up being a euthanasia.

3.I also found a bald spot on his butt about 2cm above his anus. The vet didn't mention anything about it when she examined him and i forgot to ask. Do piggies with bladder stones tend to get sores there from holding still from pain or something?
View attachment 263125

Picture of my beautiful rainbow bridge piggy, Bunker (right) as well as my surviving piggy, Bandit (left)
View attachment 263126

Thanks in advance for reading.
Click to expand...

Hi and welcome

BIG HUGS

What a traumatising experience for you! :(

I am so very sorry that Bunker seems to have had a strong adverse reaction to the GA (general anaesthetic). It does sadly happen and is never predictable. But it always comes as such a devastating shock, for both the vet team and you as the owner. And yes, having to pay half a fortune for a failed op really adds insult to injury, doesn't it just? :( :( :(

A bladder operation - unless you have crystals embedded in the bladder wall or the stone is stuck in the urethra (especially the awkward inglenook that boars have) - is indeed generally a straightforward operation with a very high recovery rate but it is always only half the operation.
Thankfully, many more piggies make it through their op and recover than not so you should never exclude the option to operate altogether, even if the following op (especially if it is the same thing again) is going to be very tough to wait out, as I know myself only too well; having been through the unavoidable jitters quite a few times over the decades...

I have been through a spate of successful bladder stone operations when my diet experiments about a dozen years back temporarily got the balance just wrong. Most of them were sows, which makes for a bit better success better rate since their urethra is shorter and wider.
One sow, whose complex calcium absorption process had clearly flipped with a large stone forming within weeks, needed regular bladder flushes in the wake but she lived for nearly 2 years and salied through an emergency spay only months later before she became too frail for any further treatment.

The bald area at the back is the grease gland.
You may find our boar care guide helpful in managing it and any other boar issues:
MerryPip

Thread 'Boar Care: Bits, Bums & Baths'

1 How do boar genitalia look like?
- Babies, boars with descended testicles and neutered boars (pictures)
- Nipples
- Sexing Guide link
2 Bums
- What is normal
- How to keep clean
- Impaction
3 Bits and Pieces (Penis and semen fluid)
- What is normal
- Removing smegma and dirt from the penis
- Penis prongs...
  • Like

Here is what you can do for Bandit, right now and in the coming weeks but we are here to support you as much as you wish:
Wiebke

Thread 'Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig'

1 What can I do immediately after a guinea pig has died?
- Saying goodbye
- What can I do for my grieving piggy?
- Emergency: acute pining (not eating/drinking) or sudden illness
2 New companionship and human grieving
- When can I start looking for a new mate?
- "Replacing" a guinea pig: the conflict between human and cavy needs
- How do I best go about finding a new mate? (Possible options listed for bereaved sows and boars)...

You have a right to be very upset and not OK right now but please try to not focus your anger too much on yourself or on the vet team who have tried their very best. Try to give your hurt a physical outlet if you can; it usually helps me with the processing because it has to go somewhere after all but you do not want it to cause any more damage to yourself or others.

There is now finally some research going on about how guinea pigs metabolise in the gut in order to work out why they are such a problematic species for vets deal with compared to other pets but it is going to take time to filter through into practical measures...
The most commonly used and cheapest GA drug is unfortunately one that is not ideal for guinea pigs but most vets cannot afford to have more expensive alternatives in stock (stocking small quantities of medications/drugs is one of the biggest budget posts in running any clinic, more so than wages) - and even those will never be 100% failsafe.

My thoughts are with you and Bandit.
 
I am so sorry Bunker didn't survive his surgery. You gave him a chance to go on and live a normal life, sadly it didn't work out but you gave him that chance.
I've had 2 piggies with stones operated on. The 1st bounced back from the surgery well but sadly 2 weeks later he had another stone stuck in his kidney, there was no treatment so we had to let him go. The 2nd was slow to recover from the surgery but went on to live another 2 years with no further stones.
Sending you my very best wishes at such a sad time.
 
I’m sad to read about lovely Bunker
No wonder you are upset and questioning things
You did the very best you could for Bunker at the time and any decision was made out of love for him ….remember that 🥰
I had an upsetting experience with my RB piggy Bobby
He had a uti and was treated for this for about 3 wks, he developed gastric ulcers from metacam ( altho I was not convinced of that)
I agreed to surgery for his bladder stones , he survived the surgery but 1 stone was stuck in his urethra that the Vet just couldn’t reach - she felt it small enough to possibly pass. Sadly Bobby died the next day …he didn’t really improve after I collected him ….i had decided to have him pts but he chose to go at home - it was a very sad time and I look back with guilt and sadness of what I allowed.
 
Thank you all so much for your responses. I feel better that i didn't spend a fortune to just uselessly poke and prod at poor Bunker for the last day of his life, but was giving him his best chance to live. This forum has been such an amazing source of information and support. @Wiebke your information pages are wonderful. I can't believe I've had 3 guinea pigs now over the past 4 years and managed to miss the fact that they had a grease gland on their little butts this whole time.

Sleep tight my sweet furbaby Bunker. Thanks for waiting to say good bye to me one last time before you moved on to the rainbow bridge.
 
Mikatelyn said:
Thank you all so much for your responses. I feel better that i didn't spend a fortune to just uselessly poke and prod at poor Bunker for the last day of his life, but was giving him his best chance to live. This forum has been such an amazing source of information and support. @Wiebke your information pages are wonderful. I can't believe I've had 3 guinea pigs now over the past 4 years and managed to miss the fact that they had a grease gland on their little butts this whole time.

Sleep tight my sweet furbaby Bunker. Thanks for waiting to say good bye to me one last time before you moved on to the rainbow bridge.
Click to expand...

HUGS

Look after yourself and Bandit as you gradually digest it all and let it out.

Grease glands are easy to miss as long as they do not cause any problems, which they don't in the majority of piggies... ;)
 
Aw no, I'm so sorry. RIP Bunker, over the Rainbow Bridge 🌈❤️

My Eric had a bladder stone. Unfortunately it was missed until it had travelled into his urethra, where it was spotted by the specialist and operated on to remove it. By this point he was already very weak and had been very poorly for some time. He made it through the op but never really came round properly and sadly passed away the next morning in my arms 😢
 
I'm so sorry you lost Bunker. It really isn't your fault. Most of the time, these surgeries go well. Unfortunately, it's never without risk and you really never know for sure how a particular animal will recover from anesthesia on a particular day.

I've had several small pets need anesthesia and although I've been lucky not to lose one, I have had a couple of scary experiences. One piggie, like yours, was very slow to recover, and although she did pull through I think it could easily have gone the other way. One was a hamster who had a full-blown seizure under anesthesia. Both of theses guys had chronic issues, both had had previous anesthesia that went fine, and the hamster went on to have another anesthesia down the road without any ill effects. They just reacted badly on that particular day... it's not something I could have predicted, it's not something the vet could have predicted, it's not something that was predictable even based on their previous medical histories. You did the best thing you could have done under the circumstances... he would have been in serious pain had you NOT tried the surgery, and he could easily have passed away much more painfully had that stone lodged in his urethra. We can't see the future and we sometimes have to make the best decision we can at the time without knowing how it will come out. You took your best shot at giving him a healthy, pain-free future, and sometimes it just doesn't go the way we hope it will.
 
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