Pneumonia

[Caroline#51]

Hello,I'm new to this group but looking for sone advice please!
We have poorly piggy called Piggles,who is a year and a half old,he was losing weight and started coughing so vet diagnosed pneumonia.
He has been on Baytril once a day for 2 weeks but still looks thin and not moving around much at all.
Still eating veg and some nuggets but not like he used to! He is one of 3 brothers,other 2 are both OK.
Is he likely to improve,i don't want him to suffer or be on his own from now on ,horrible to see him so not right!
Any help gratefully recieved.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear he is unwell.

As hay is 80% of the daily food intake, if they don’t eat enough then piggies will lose weight. Eating veg and nuggets isn’t enough as jointly they are only 20% of the daily food intake. Please, if you arent already, step in and syringe feed him mushed up nuggets or a recovery feed such as critical care or Emeraid, as this will replace the hay he isn’t eating for himself and will help stabilise his weight.
Ensure you weigh him daily so you can ensure he is being fed enough in each 24 hour period.

It may be that baytril isn’t the right antibiotic and he needs a change of medication and/or other medication, gut stimulants, painkillers etc. Has he been back to the vet since the original diagnosis?

Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment
Not Eating, Weight Loss And The Importance Of Syringe Feeding Fibre
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
Weight - Monitoring and Management

 

[Caroline#51]

No he hasn't, I phoned then back and the vet said to leave it for a few days after the baytril is finished and see how he goes,it's only day 1 after finishing antibiotics,he has been eating hay but I've noticed his poos are much smaller than normal, I've been hand feeding him veg covered in water to help with dehydration as I never see him drinking!
He is peeing though but very lethargic.

 

[Piggies&buns]

No he hasn't, I phoned then back and the vet said to leave it for a few days after the baytril is finished and see how he goes,it's only day 1 after finishing antibiotics,he has been eating hay but I've noticed his poos are much smaller than normal, I've been hand feeding him veg covered in water to help with dehydration as I never see him drinking!
He is peeing though but very lethargic.

If he is having small poops, then he is not be eating enough hay. This is the most important part, not veg
Are you syringe feeding him Critical care/emeraid/mushed pellets? This is the essential fibre which replaces the lack of hay.
Are you weighing him daily so you can monitor his hay/fibre/syringe feed intake in real time? This is so important so you can know how much to syringe feed to keep his guts functioning

I suggest you get hold of the vet again/find a different vet if the ones you are seeing aren’t particularly piggy knowledge.

 

[Wiebke]

No he hasn't, I phoned then back and the vet said to leave it for a few days after the baytril is finished and see how he goes,it's only day 1 after finishing antibiotics,he has been eating hay but I've noticed his poos are much smaller than normal, I've been hand feeding him veg covered in water to help with dehydration as I never see him drinking!
He is peeing though but very lethargic.

Hi!

if the poos are much smaller, this indicates a diminished food intake at least a day back. Please switch to weighing on the kitchen scales at the same time of day/same time in the feeding cycle and step in with feeding support. Your home weight monitoring and feeding support is every bit as important because medication can only work fully if the piggy is as fit as possible to fit their illness; one that dies from lack of food cannot be healed.
PLEASE read the information links in the first post; they can sometimes quite literally make the difference between a piggy winning through or not. We have included easy accessible alternatives (like mushed up pellets) to appropriate recovery formula products for those owners that need to step in quickly in the cage of an emergency or not being able to see a vet immediately.

Please contact your vet first thing on Monday morning if they are not open over the weekend. Waiting several days after the end of treatment when a piggy is clearly not well is not the best thing with animals that have a much faster metabolism than dogs and cats. How piggy savvy are your vets?

You can try and see whether a bowl of steaming water next to the cage helps with the breathing but please start weighing and get some more food into your piggy. You cannot judge the crucial hay intake by eye alone. Just nibbling on a little hay can be really deceptive!

 

[Wiebke]

Please be aware that the need to breathe comes before the need to drink and only thirdly the need to eat. Combine that with the fact that baytril is one of the antibiotics that impacts more on the digestive gut bacteria than others (although loss of appetite and an adverse reaction can happen to antibiotic), and you have the perfect recipe for a double whammy for the appetite with any respiratory illness. This is the reason why we are pushing so much for crucial feeding support.

Far too many piggies with a respiratory infection or pneumonia sadly die because of lack of feeding support and do not not necessarily directly from their illness when owners underestimate or are not aware of the crucial need of syringe feeding support for very ill piggies. Nibbling is a good sign that your piggy has not lost their appetite completely and that they have still got the will to live but your extra help can make the difference in getting them through this.

Here is a syringe feeding video: Syringe Training Before The Need For Medicating

 

[Caroline#51]

Thankyou do.much,I'm soaking some of his pellets now and will try and feed him some,we was very good at taking the baytril by syringe so hopefully he'll take some,
I'll phone the vet on Monday morning I really want him to be seen again and maybe try a new med,he's just coughed twice so definitely not right at all!

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thankyou do.much,I'm soaking some of his pellets now and will try and feed him some,we was very good at taking the baytril by syringe so hopefully he'll take some,
I'll phone the vet on Monday morning I really want him to be seen again and maybe try a new med,he's just coughed twice so definitely not right at all!

Make sure you also weigh him once per day so you can know how much to syringe feed him. The amount you need to feed is directly linked to how much or how little hay piggy is eating for himself. The less hay he eats independently, the more you need to syringe feed each day (and how many feeds per day depends on how much he will take at each sitting).

Keep us updated on how things go. I hope he is ok

 

[Caroline#51]

Oh gosh,I feel so unqualified for all this but I will give it my best shot,how quickly will he put the weight back on?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Oh gosh,I feel so unqualified for all this but I will give it my best shot,how quickly will he put the weight back on?

At this point you are looking to stop weight loss, rather than gain lost weight back, and keep gut function.
Gaining weight will take weeks.

 

[Wiebke]

Oh gosh,I feel so unqualified for all this but I will give it my best shot,how quickly will he put the weight back on?

Just take a deep breath and tackle it. We have all started out feeling overwhelmed and woefully inexperienced; and many of us have only found out about the need for feeding support when they asked for help with their ill piggy on here.
Keep in mind that anything you do and any food you get into him will help to make him better.
A lot of it is down to practice (like most life skills) - but that always comes at the cost of fighting illness, so please don't be upset if things don't go perfect at first and just persist. You'll get there just like every one of us.

If you are using your medication syringe, you will need to cut off the tip with scissors just below where it widens to allow the much rougher pellet fibre to pass through (that is what he needs to eat) but still hold the plunger in. Otherwise all that will pass is just the water.

Take the time to read through our information links and watch the video; we have put all the necessary information and all the little practical tips in there that would take too much time to repeat each time in full length.

 

[Caroline#51]

Thankyou again,he has taken liquid pellets from syringe and a little water afterwards so I'm feeling like I'm at least doing everything to help that I can for him,this forum has been such a help,I had no idea and zero advice from the vet, supplement feeding wasn't even mentioned!
Fingers crossed and I'll feed him again in the morning and weigh him everyday.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thankyou again,he has taken liquid pellets from syringe and a little water afterwards so I'm feeling like I'm at least doing everything to help that I can for him,this forum has been such a help,I had no idea and zero advice from the vet, supplement feeding wasn't even mentioned!
Fingers crossed and I'll feed him again in the morning and weigh him everyday.

It’s a shame the vet didn’t mention the importance of support feeding. Are they piggy savvy?
We are all here to support you.

 

[Merab]

Welcome to the forum.
It was this forum that taught me the importance and the ‘how to’ of syringe feeding so good for you getting your poorly boy to take some.
Be prepared to find yourself covered in mush as well.
Hope he recovers soon.
Holding you in my thoughts

 

[Caroline#51]

So Piggles has had another syringe of mushed up pellets this morning and we've weighed him,he's been munching on hay and some veg but still not moving much and coughed twice aswell,I'm going to give him some painkiller the vet gave us and phone them tomorrow morning,I don't feel.theres much else I can do really,I'll give him.some more mushed pellets again later and some water.
He's peeing and had a healthier pile of still too small poos but they are darker and more of them!
Horrible having sick pets,you feel very helpless !

 

[Bill & Ted]

I would syringe feed him mushed up pellet every couple of hour till you go to bed, you need to get that empty tummy filled up and moving along the gut, it won’t stop him eating extra veggies and hay
Good luck, hope you come back with a different antibiotic to help shift this pneumonia x

 

[Piggies&buns]

Definitely feed him regularly - every couple of hours to ensure he is getting enough.
Weigh him once every 24 hours and compare it to the previous days weight so you know he is getting enough.

I hope you can get him into the vet

 

[Wiebke]

So Piggles has had another syringe of mushed up pellets this morning and we've weighed him,he's been munching on hay and some veg but still not moving much and coughed twice aswell,I'm going to give him some painkiller the vet gave us and phone them tomorrow morning,I don't feel.theres much else I can do really,I'll give him.some more mushed pellets again later and some water.
He's peeing and had a healthier pile of still too small poos but they are darker and more of them!
Horrible having sick pets,you feel very helpless !

Hi!

You need to feed the equivalent of 40-60 ml of syringe feed to a piggy that is hardly eating in 24 hours in order to provide the minimum amount of nutrition needed and to keep them alive. Just one or two syringe fulls won't sadly get you far. A healthy piggy eats roughly the equivalent of 120 ml in that time.

Please feed every 2 hours during the day as many syringefuls as Piggles will take in one go in order to provide much needed energy and to to help building him up again as much as possible so he can fight his illness. Your first aim in a serious illness is always to stabilise the weight as much as possible.

Weigh him at the same time of day on your kitchen scales to check on whether his weight is stable or still falling. If it is very low and now falling much, then this can mean that he has already lost pretty much all weight he can lose.
I find weighing first thing in the morning the best time of day because that is when the weight is lowest; this helps me to determine my feeding plan for the day; but the same time in the feeding cycle like before the veg dinner will also do.

 

[Merab]

It is hard dealing with a sick piggy.
It’s true that we do feel helpless but you are doing well at caring for him.
You are responding to the advice and support here which is very positive.
Piggles is lucky to have such a loving and caring owner.

I sometimes add a bit of mashed banana to the syringe feed mush - it goes down well.
You can also feed some raw oats mixed with a little grated carrot or sweet potato.
I usually put a little dish of oats & carrot in the cage along with a dish of the syringe feed to complement the syringe feeding.
It helps encourage the piggy to eat for themselves.

It’s tiring physically and emotionally so look after yourself and draw on all the support we can offer

 

[weepweeps]

Hello and welcome to the forum. It sounds like you are doing a fab job. Keep going. I hope you manage to get in at the vets tomorrow and your vet can help.

 

[Caroline#51]

Thanks everyone,another vet trip so now have co-trimoxazole to try,fingers and paws this helps!

 

[weepweeps]

I hope it works.

 

[Bill & Ted]

Hope he’s feeling better very soon x