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Piggy very ill - end of life?

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Pigpig21

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We have a 5 year old female piggy. She's been wonderful and pretty healthy. She had a bladder stone last fall, but we were able to navigate past that.

Last week, her eating started slowing down. At first, I thought maybe it was the quality of the hay and veg. I bought new leaf and new hay, and she got back into that a bit more, but slowed down again (looking back, I was picking up a lot more left over hay, which I didn't realize was a sign of diet issues). Finally, she stopped eating and drinking. We took her to the vet. They did X-rays, and found nothing to remark on. They did not do blood work. I forget why (they gave me a reason, but I don't remember it). They also checked for an occluded (sp?) tongue - no issues. They said they could not determine why she wasn't eating. They gave her an under-skin hydration and anti-nausea medicine and sent us home with critical care diet and Meloxicam. They said sometimes if they are in pain, the meloxicam can help them get past that.

We force fed the big for a number of days, and gave her meloxicam, but still she didn't start eating on her own. At the end of one 12 hour period of meloxicam she suddenly started nibbling on veg (not hay). We were so excited. We gave her as much veg as she would take (wasn't a lot, but it was something!) did some more critical care diet and then went to bed, without meloxicam. Next morning, she had not eaten anything left for her nor took significant water.

Now, she is laying down mostly, has gotten very weak and her hair is puffed out, which I understand is a sign of bad things. I feel like force feeding her now seems almost cruel. I don't see any poops, and manhandling her just breaks my heart. We have stopped forcing food and water, but of course, she's not eating or drinking on her own.

I don't know if I am doing the right thing by stopping the force feeding. She's been more than 24 hours now without force feeding or water. I thought she would have passed quickly based on what I've read, but she's still here. Should we: go back to force feeding, let nature run it's course, or turn to euthanizing? This is just so dreadful. She is a beautiful little girl.
 
I’m sorry to hear this.

It’s always difficult when the vets cant find anything wrong.
I would have expected a gut stimulant medication to be prescribed though.

Can I ask why the meloxicom was stopped?

If she was still able to swallow and was willingly taking the syringe feed, then stopping it would not be advised.
If she hasn’t had food or water for 24 hours then she is going to be weak and poops would have stopped. Being puffed is often a sign of pain.
If she is no longer able to swallow when syringe feed, or if she is in discomfort or distress, then she really needs to be taken back to the vet. Passing is not always a quick process.

The guide below explains further
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
 
Thank you for the reply. We still have the Meloxam doses, and can re-administer. Looking at what they sent us home with, there was no gut stimulating meds :(

I will say I wish I had found this site earlier. I am just now reading "Not Eating, Weight Loss And The Importance Of Syringe Feeding Fibre" and other threads. This is very useful and comforting information on this site.
 
I had stopped the meloxicam because I was concerned it was suppressing her appetite, but I just re-administered another dose to help her be more comfortable.
 
Pain meds will not suppress appetite, but being in pain can and will.

ive linked in our updated syringe feeding guide - it more fully explains syringe feeding and the importance of daily weight checks.

How much syringe feed was she getting each day?

If you think she is sadly too far gone, then do see the vet.
Otherwise, urgently syringe feed her. You may still need to call the vet and have her seen again.

All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
 
Hi and welcome

Please take the time to read our very practical how-to guide links in this thread; they contain all the little tips and in-depth information of how to assess the situation and what you can do at each stage. They also talk you through the whole process step-by-step in all the detail that you need at every stage.
We cannot repeat all details at length in every single post, seeing that we are all doing this for free in our own free time around our own jobs, piggies and family life and that while we are located in the UK we have members from all over the world and very different time zones.
You should find the information in the guides very useful because it will hopefully make you feel less overwhelmed and helpless in the whole process

Please never stop pain meds; loss of appetite does not mean that painkillers are suppressing the appetite (they really don't) but that the pain level may have gone up another notch and that she may need a higher dosage.
Signs of Pain in Guinea Pigs

However, if your girl is no longer able to take on food, water and oral medication and swallow it, then she is dying. Until then, please continue offering her all three, as much as she can process and in as small bite sized portions (just one tenth to one third of a syringe) as she can cope with and is able to swallow. Our guide links will explain everything in detail.

My thoughts are with you.
 
Sending you a hug. I’m so sorry your piggy is unwell. You know her best and if you think she is suffering I’d take her back to the vets to see what they can advise. Good luck.
 
As a follow-up to my OP (after reading some of the articles) we are not "force feeding" so much as syringe feeding. she gets about 1/2 unit (each syringe has 10 unites - are they ML?) each time, with space for her to swallow it down, but she has been clamping her mouth up lately. She does not willingly pull from the syringe or try to eat what's offered. Any rate, I will read the articles. Thank you for this site.
 
It might be worth an opinion from a second vet too, and as the others have said I would be requesting some gut stimulants as well.
What dose of meloxicam is she on? Is it cat (0.5) or dog (1.5) strength?
 
The thing about syringe feeding is that it gets them over a 'hump' until they can eat for themselves again. So after anaesthetic, after dental surgery, when treating something painful, during a bout of bloat, during other treatment etc. It's not a cure in itself. We do it to help piggy avoid gut stasis during the tricky patch. There can be things wrong that we just don't see: cancers, blocked kidneys, gut tumours, that will be the end for a piggy. And in these cases syringe feeding does just prolong the inevitable. It's a really tricky call because piggy doesn't feel like eating either way and sometimes when they are nearest to the end they don't fight it so you can get the impression they're turning a corner. But no-one wants to fill a little mouth up with food that can't be swallowed.

Ask yourself what would happen if you managed to keep her going for a bit longer. Would you be able to get to the bottom of her problem? The vet couldn't find anything wrong before - if there are no new symptoms they've got nothing else to look for. They may not have wanted to do bloods because piggy has to be anaesthetised which carries it's own risks. And your pig won't understand that any of this stuff is to try and help her. She's not evolved to understand medicine - that's a people-thing. Whatever you choose to do try and make her comfortable and keep her gently warm so she feels safe. Sometimes they try to drag themselves away from other pigs if they feel the end coming... it's her instinct so I don't put them back at this point, I just make them comfortable where they've chosen to be. You might see something that looks a bit like a fit as she reaches her end - don't be worried as this is pretty normal and it's thought that piggy isn't aware of their surroundings by this point. She sounds like a much loved girl and whichever route you take I know it will be out of love x
 
Thanks. I do remember why they said they didn't take blood. She was too dehydrated. The gave her some kind of sub-cutaneous liquids (along with the anti-nausea), which might explain why she's lasted this many days after the vet visit, but she still refuses food and feeding. If I show her food, she literally turns around. Puts her head in the corner a lot, which I've read here is kind of a sign of the end?

That's what's torn me up - I don't know what's wrong with her, so we could fight her for days and days to feed her, but we don't know what the underlying problem is. Am I just fighting what she knows naturally is the end...I will miss her. She was my child's piggy, but university came calling and I got pig care. I never thought I'd get so attached.

Thanks for the helps.
 
I once syringe fed a girl for 6 weeks because we just couldn't see any reason she wasn't eating and she looked completely healthy and normal apart from the not eating. I just couldn't give up on her - we tried x rays, ultrasound, pain relief, antibiotics etc. She didn't really want any of it although she was hungry and you could see her sniffing and sniffing at food. It broke my heart. We speculate her problem might have been swallowing (perhaps a growth). Between feeds she was trotting round with the other piggy, hopping up steps, looking interested in things etc. Then suddenly one weekend she went rapidly downhill and I took her in to be pts. Whatever it was caught up with her. Your little lady sounds like she feels poorly. We all get attached to our pigs, as we would to any little thing that is completely dependant on us for love and care. She is in her own home and familiar surroundings. I would dose her with the painkiller if she will take it but not force the feeding. If there is no other piggy you could always leave a little pile of veggie or syringe food to one side of her and a little away, in case she feels like it x
 
It could be anything from an internal growth to one of the minor organs packing in to quite a few more unexpected things that have turned up in older piggies of mine over the years. Even if you did know, there would not necessarily be much you could do to prolong an already long life. Not knowing what your piggy is dying from or has died from is surprisingly common. Guinea pigs are still vastly underresearched.

But it looks like Bethany is feeling ill enough to leave her group if she had the option. :(
Try to take pride in that you have got her to the upper end of the average life span with your good care and that she has already survived the vast majority of her age mates. Guinea pigs have a much faster metabolism and in old age this turns against them. :(

Please be aware that you are currently grappling with the onset of your grieving process. It doesn't start with the moment of death but with the moment you realise that time is running out. It is the second worst time in the whole process (apart from death itself); that is why your emotions are currently so strong. Try to see things from her end and then make any decisions with her welfare foremost in mind; before your own fears of losing her and your desperate wish to keep her with you for longer. That is the biggest and most loving gift you can still make her.

Whatever you do, as long as she is still swallowing, please give her painkiller to minimise any discomfort. How much are you giving her and is it the 0.5 mg solution or the 1.5 mg?

My thoughts are with you.
 
Pigpig21 said:
Thank you all for your kind wishes and support. She is now buried in the backyard. This is a wonderful forum, and though we are pig-less at the moment, if we ever do get another one (or more) I'll be back here. Just great people and great help.
Click to expand...

BIG HUGS

I am so sorry for you but I am glad for Bethany that she is no longer suffering and that she is back to being her best at the Rainbow Bridge. Dying is a much more physical process and not always as clear cut as you'd expect.

Be kind with yourself in the coming days and weeks. We all have to grieve to the degree we have loved; they are the two sides of the same coin. Take comfort that you have very obviously given Bethany a loving, good home to live to such a great age.

If you struggle with any unexpected turns or emotions, like intense soul-searching or feelings of guilt, you may find our grieving guide helpful. it is our forum ethos to provide a friendly and supportive place and to help everybody make their individual best of their ownership: Human Bereavement: Grieving, Processing and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

PS: If you come back to guinea pig keeping, please make it two and consider adoption. As you can imagine, we have plenty of very practical information to help navigate pontential pitfalls so we are here to help you figure out the best way forward for yourself in your local circumstances. But give yourself time first and only do it when the time feels right for you.
Getting Started - Essential Information for New Owners
 
I’m so sorry. Sometimes the call to the bridge is just too strong. She was a much loved piggy and she knew how much you loved her. Take care ❤️
 
Aw, sorry your piggy has passed away, they really do steal your heart don't they? RIP little piggy over the Rainbow Bridge 🌈❤️
 
So sorry that your girl didn’t make it.
We all know the pain of loss and are here to support you.
Be gentle with yourself as you grieve.
 
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