Piggie Deterioration – Preparing for Rainbow Bridge

[Tookadaboo]

Hello all.

Two weeks or so ago my boar Tuck appeared to be eating less and less and passing smaller poo. When he threw up a little glob of dark green liquid, we whisked him away to a Vet visit. They checked him over and mentioned acid reflux ( a one-off it seems) and that his teeth (the back ones we can't see) may be too long and need trimming down. Aside from a somewhat empty tummy, he appeared in good health on all other fronts. My partner and I decided to go through with the anaesthetic for his teeth to be filed down which – at a 5-and-a-half year or so piggie – was quite worrying. We were well aware and informed of the risks of him not waking up.

Thankfully, he came around after a successful procedure and we took him home with some Metacam pain relief. While he appears to be his usual self - following me to the fridge, pottering about the flat - his appetite is still minimal and he's still a little off. His usual go-to grub that he goes mad for is being mostly left or his nose turned up at. We've administered the pain relief once every few days (0.2ml) and less on others out of concern the medication may be making him feel too sick to eat. I've mushed up his pellets into soup and scattered probiotic powder onto his food and mixed with his water.

He is still eating and drinking, but the amounts he's eating simply aren't enough. He only eats so much when I handfeed him. I've been weighing him on my scales and he's losing about 15-20g every day. I'm set to take him back to the vet for another check up in a few days should nothing more urgent press me to go immediately (a side note, but mentally I've been struggling and I have both a doctor's appointment and my Uncle's funeral to attend to today), but I'm aware of the reality of things. That being said, I wanted to ask some seasoned owners for some advice.

I've had two other piggies pass over before Tuck, one I believe in their sleep while I was also sleeping in the early hours, and the other one euthanised after having twisting fits that the vet couldn't discern. (The latter I couldn't watch and they were taken out of the room to have the relief administered - in honest it's something that still haunts me to this day. I feel like I should have been there for them up to the end.) I've been reading some support guides here and the distressing symptoms of organ failure coupled with the guinea pig's general reactions to such has me honestly alarmed. I've never experienced the more physical signs of death in guinea pigs. Of course I'll be there for my little man when the time comes, but I do wonder if this is a case of prolonging the inevitable with Vet visits or if Tuck really does still have a fighting chance. (I wonder if I lay off the pain relief for a few days now as it's pretty much finished, give him more time to acclimate, he may chomp down a bit more further on.)

Either way, what's the best way to prepare myself and what advice could you give? It's a tough situation and I'm not entirely convinced that Tuck is quite ready to pass over yet - the vet seemed convinced it was mainly due to oversized back chompers. But I'm trying to remain impartial and realistic.

Thanks for reading all of this. I really appreciate it.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear of your situation.

A few things, if he is losing weight, then he needs to be syringe fed every two hours and given much more feed in each 24 hour period. You need to aim for at least 40-60ml per day to stabilise his weight, it can be much as 100ml needed each day. The less a piggy takes at each syringe feeding sitting, the more sittings need to be done.
Small poops indicate not enough food is going in.
You can also try a recovery feed such as critical care as well as the mushed pellets.

The syringe feeding is essential and is replacing reduced hay intake (80% of daily food intake). Veg is not enough. You can put a bowl of mushed pellets in the cage but making sure he gets syringe fed so he is actually getting it is so important. Is he attempting to eat hay at all?
If he has dental issues, then cutting veg into match sticks and putting them end ways in an egg cup can also help them be able to pick them up

Metacam will not make them feel sick, many of us have or have had animals on long term pain relief.
But being in pain will stop a piggy from wanting to eat.
if he has only been getting 0,2ml (or less) every few days then, I’m sorry to say, his pain hasn’t been managed. Piggies metabolise their pain meds in 12 hours so they need a decent sized dose every 12 hours to keep on top of pain.
Was it dog or cat metacam? If cat, then 0.2ml even once a day won’t be enough.

Please do syringe feed him a lot more and get a vet to significantly increase his pain medication (please don’t stop giving pain medication while there is any chance he is still in pain) and that may help him pull through if all that is wrong was his teeth.

All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

Not Eating, Weight Loss And The Importance Of Syringe Feeding Fibre

 

[Tookadaboo]

Thank you so much for your response, it was very informative. I'm looking into the linked content now.

It was cat Metacam and we followed the instructions on the side of the bottle which was 0.2ml daily. They only gave 0.5/3ml in total as it reads on the box, so we assumed it was potent. We were actually worried at one point of giving him too much, so I'll be sure to go back to the Vet and see if they can up his medication. It doesn't help that we're inexperienced with this, so I feel quite annoyed now from feeling misinformed by our practice. If it helps, we have been super vigilant and couldn't see any usual or excessive signs of pain, but Guinea Pigs can certainly be very deceptive.

I'll start syringe feeding him right away - thank you. Keep his progress posted.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Is your vet piggy savvy, and do they have experience of piggy dentals?

Metacam is the standard form of pain relief and is tolerated very well by piggies who metabolise it differently to cats and dogs and for their body weight can take higher doses than cats and dogs. Since cat metacam has been licensed for guinea pigs a lot of inexperienced or vets who aren’t piggy knowledgeable will prescribe it based on cat dosing for example not knowing piggies need higher doses and need it twice a day. Dog metacam is three times stronger than cat and is still prescribed for piggies by knowledgeable and exotic vets.
(0,5mg/ml is cat strength, 1.5mg/ml is dog strength)

How much does your pig weigh?

Assuming the dental was done correctly and there aren’t any further problems there, then not wanting to eat in itself can be a sign of being in pain. A piggy who can eat, will eat. They can certainly lose confidence in eating after dental issues but being in pain, and from what youve said on the dosing, could well be a factor in his reluctance to eat

When was his dental done?

 

[Free Ranger]

George is 1.3 kilo and gets 0.3ish ml of dog metacam twice a day for his arthritis. That's 1.5mg/ml. He's the same age as your boy and doing just fine, despite being on the same daily dose as an 8kilo dog! It really is different for pigs. He's been on it for months - probably over a year now I can't quite remember. And he loves the sweet taste and wolfs it down while his portly cage mate pushes in to lick the empty syringe. Vets have to weight up things like kidney damage with long term use but at this age you want them to be comfortable and my older vet regards George's dose as pretty low(!) Pigs burn through metacam fast - that's the perceived wisdom and I've seen it myself in a girl under a vet's care for a mystery illness that stopped her eating. We wanted to increase her pain relief to see if it made a difference. She's had an opioid injection before for something else - very effective pain relief but she was totally stoned and didn't eat at all so we tried upping her metacam bit by bit. She was fine on double her normal dose but when we tried to triple it she looked rough, poor girl, and I had to watch her carefully... but literally just a few hours later she was back to normal. After plenty of piggy years I suddenly started getting prescribed tiny doses of cat metacam and couldn't understand why but then I found out this weaker one had actually been licensed for pig use so newer vets were not going to go off-piste with the unlicensed dog product when the cat one was now officially OK. But older vets who'd seen a few pigs (and owned a few pigs) just carried on as before.

Your lad is battling on and they can start to look pretty sad if they're going thinner - and in truth they might fight the syringe so we have to be gentle and give little amounts each time even if it's only a fraction of a ml for them to try chewing on. When one of my girls had a dental she got painkiller for a week because it makes the mouth tender... she also got antibiotics in case of infection. I can't remember at this point whether the vet suspected gum infection being one possible cause of her not eating or whether she was worried she'd caught her soft tissues during the op. But teeth issues aren't always just teeth related - there can be an underlying cause and it can be something long term and systemic or something local in the mouth. To be very honest we can't always identify that, only make our pigs as comfortable as we can. I'm linking in another post to a piggy in the Yemen which talks about things like bloat but I've lifted a few pics from our forum pigs showing how the incisor teeth (were they also filed?) can end up sloping one way or another if there is a problem on one side of the mouth. Does this ring any bells for you?

Hi and I'm so sorry for your worries and difficulties. This has turned into a massive post which I apologise for in advance. I'm not one of the health experts but one of my pigs did get bloat from diet and another one had some tooth issues. I thought if I just put everything in one place either something might strike a chord or it would just all be stuff you've considered and rejected in which case at least poor Popo would be no worse off than before. Here goes...

We had bloat in one piggy. We gave her some pain relief called metacam (or sometimes loxicom) which is commonly prescribed for dogs or cats. Vet also gave something called emeprid which is supposed to stimulate the gut. My piggy was taken off all veggies, fruit and fresh grass - she wasn't eating as much as normal so I made recovery food slurry (high in fibre) and carefully syringed it into her mouth to keep her guts moving. Once something goes into the mouth they can't spit out so we have to be careful not to overload or they can inhale it. They don't burp (or vomit) so any gas has to pass through the system and out the back! She sat on a folded fleece on my lap and I gently held a vibrating electric toothbrush against her sides which she seemed to quite enjoy. I did very gentle massage, just tapping and little circles with my fingers on her sides. I have seen on the internet about quite firm massaging and squishing but I think the piggy gut is so long and goes in all directions so I can't see how squeezing piggy is going to help at all and it will most likely hurt them! But to keep them relaxed an comfortable with gentle massage and high fibre syringe food to push the gas through can help. And for my girl removing fresh food for a few days while her bloat went down and then reintroducing carefully was important.

I understand your fear and frustration for Popo but it sounds like you have a vet who is helping as much as they can. I'm not an expert at all but I have seen some x-rays on here with really big spurs on the teeth actually growing out sideways and they look very obvious on the x-ray. I can't see anything like this on your x-ray. Was piggy made unconscious with general anaesthetic for the examination so vet could have a good look around in the mouth? Sometimes in guinea-pigs the back teeth can grow inwards and entrap the tongue like a bridge, holding it down, which prevents piggy from swallowing. This needs a dental operation to grind the teeth back and release the tongue. But this should be obvious on examination if the teeth are trapping the tongue down... and sometimes cuts and ulcers can also be seen on the tongue too. If Popo was conscious for his exam it can be harder to look in their mouths which are often full of chewed food! And many, many well-trained vets here in the UK can miss things like this surprisingly easily.

How long have you had Popo and how long has he had this problem? Piggy teeth are growing all the time and are constantly ground down by eating hay (which should be 80% of the diet). If they don't eat enough hay the teeth can overgrow. I had one piggy who could only eat syringe food for about 6 weeks. We never found out her problem, but she would chew and chew and chew... but not swallow. Her tongue was not trapped though. After about 3 or 4 weeks the vet noticed that as a result of her problem going on so long her incisors had grown so big that her mouth couldn't close! They were quickly trimmed down (actually a bit too short but never mind - she didn't need anaesthetic - just took 5 mins) and after that she could chew much better and faster. Unfortunately this didn't cure her - she would still just chew and chew. But it's just to say that if Popo's eating has been affected for over a month this is an issue to watch out for. I think your vet would have probably spotted this though.

Was Popo chewing normally for a long time and then started to chew on one side recently? Or has he always been like this.
Are his front teeth level and even when you look at them? The front incisor teeth can sometimes give a clue as to a problem further back. Here are 3 pics to illustrate. The first is one of the forum piggies showing nice, evenly worn front teeth and the second is a picture of another piggy whose teeth are slanting. Can you see the difference? The slant at the front is often caused by a problem further back with the chewing teeth... in this case poor piggy has an abscess (the lump in the third picture) that is being treated, but he was chewing over to one side to relieve the pressure and pain and this wears the front teeth unevenly.
So how do Popo's front teeth look to you... are they even? Or slanted? Does this give any clues? I don't know whether abscesses show up on x-ray (your vet might know as I bet dogs and cats get them too) but my vet checks by feeling carefully along the jawline for any lumps or bumps or swellings that are uneven.
View attachment 207285 View attachment 207286 View attachment 207288

That's about all I can think of for now. If your vet can provide any of the metacam pain relief it can help him in the short-term and maybe encourage him to eat a little on his own. We can't prescribe doses but we can tell you what we've had in the past for our pigs - the amount is quite a bit higher per kilo of body weight than for cats or dogs. Pepper piggy on the right has had a surgery and antibiotics as well as painkillers for the abscess (here's the thread - Dental? Pepper is off to the vets tomorrow ) and piggy on the left - also called Pepper - is pictured in a thread for cute teeth photos incase you need to see any more examples Toothies Tuesday

Be brave little Armenian piggy and your caring and devoted owner. We will be thinking about you x

There are different types of syringe support food. Vets should stock at least one and you can just buy it over the counter. Ours uses Recovery, others are Critical Care or Emeraid etc. Feeding long-term to get them back on track is better with this sort of stuff rather than just mushed pellets (which will do, don't get me wrong) and if they get a taste of something different it can motivate them sometimes to have more of a go.

Good luck Tuck, keep us informed x
PS: in case the link doesn't work for the pics here is the thread... look on page 2 Dislocated Jaw and no exotic vet around , what to do

 

[Merab]

So sorry that you are in this situation.
I can’t add to the health care advice, but in terms of caring for a piggy who may be coming to the end of life, I would say: make lots of happy memories.
Take photos and enjoy every moment so that there will be no regrets when Tuck does pass away.
You are already giving him the best of care.
I hope it will be a long while yet though, before you lose him.

Look after yourself too. When you face the possibility of death you start to grieve so please be gentle with yourself.

Holding you in my heart

 

[Wiebke]

Hello all.

Two weeks or so ago my boar Tuck appeared to be eating less and less and passing smaller poo. When he threw up a little glob of dark green liquid, we whisked him away to a Vet visit. They checked him over and mentioned acid reflux ( a one-off it seems) and that his teeth (the back ones we can't see) may be too long and need trimming down. Aside from a somewhat empty tummy, he appeared in good health on all other fronts. My partner and I decided to go through with the anaesthetic for his teeth to be filed down which – at a 5-and-a-half year or so piggie – was quite worrying. We were well aware and informed of the risks of him not waking up.

Thankfully, he came around after a successful procedure and we took him home with some Metacam pain relief. While he appears to be his usual self - following me to the fridge, pottering about the flat - his appetite is still minimal and he's still a little off. His usual go-to grub that he goes mad for is being mostly left or his nose turned up at. We've administered the pain relief once every few days (0.2ml) and less on others out of concern the medication may be making him feel too sick to eat. I've mushed up his pellets into soup and scattered probiotic powder onto his food and mixed with his water.

He is still eating and drinking, but the amounts he's eating simply aren't enough. He only eats so much when I handfeed him. I've been weighing him on my scales and he's losing about 15-20g every day. I'm set to take him back to the vet for another check up in a few days should nothing more urgent press me to go immediately (a side note, but mentally I've been struggling and I have both a doctor's appointment and my Uncle's funeral to attend to today), but I'm aware of the reality of things. That being said, I wanted to ask some seasoned owners for some advice.

I've had two other piggies pass over before Tuck, one I believe in their sleep while I was also sleeping in the early hours, and the other one euthanised after having twisting fits that the vet couldn't discern. (The latter I couldn't watch and they were taken out of the room to have the relief administered - in honest it's something that still haunts me to this day. I feel like I should have been there for them up to the end.) I've been reading some support guides here and the distressing symptoms of organ failure coupled with the guinea pig's general reactions to such has me honestly alarmed. I've never experienced the more physical signs of death in guinea pigs. Of course I'll be there for my little man when the time comes, but I do wonder if this is a case of prolonging the inevitable with Vet visits or if Tuck really does still have a fighting chance. (I wonder if I lay off the pain relief for a few days now as it's pretty much finished, give him more time to acclimate, he may chomp down a bit more further on.)

Either way, what's the best way to prepare myself and what advice could you give? It's a tough situation and I'm not entirely convinced that Tuck is quite ready to pass over yet - the vet seemed convinced it was mainly due to oversized back chompers. But I'm trying to remain impartial and realistic.

Thanks for reading all of this. I really appreciate it.

Hi

I am very sorry that your piggy is not doing all that well.

You may also find this very practical but sensitive information collection here helpful; it deals specially with caring for older piggies and all the all the issues and worries that come with them, like decreased mobility etc: Caring for Older Piggies and Facing the End - A practical and supportive information collection

However, your very first consideration must always be feeding support and monitoring the food intake via daily weighing at the same time of day on the kitchen scales (once weekly if your piggy is stable). Guinea pigs canot afford to fast.
Monitoring by poo output is running 1-2 days behind the event horizon as it takes on average 22 hours for the food to pass from one end of the body to the other but can take longer with a slowed down gut; then they eat some of their poos for further breakdown, so that adds also to the weight loss if there are less poos or the poos can no longer be picked up easily. Since hay should make at least three quarters of what a piggy eats in a day, you can never just judge the food intake by watching your piggy nibbling on a little veg or chewing on cud. That can lose you precious time in addressing any problem.
Our medicating and syringe feeding guide is very comprehensive and how-to with all the information and practical tips, pictures and videos you need to support your piggy, including how to improvise until you can get hold of support products.

Please also ensure that your piggy, especially if they have arthritis, is getting pain and glucosamine (joint) support for the longer term.

Please take the time to read all the links in this thread. They contain the in-depth information and the detailed practical how-to advice that we cannot repeat in every single post, and still answer all questions.

 

[Freela]

I'm sorry you're dealing with this, I have a palliative piggie right now and know it's really hard not knowing if/when they're going.

You've been given good advice above regarding supplementary syringe feeding... I can't add anything to the guide posted above, but can stress how important it is. Metacam is not going to make him sicker or too drowsy to eat, and being more comfortable will make him MORE likely to eat. !) I've actually got a piggie with cancer on Tramadol (an opioid) twice a day and I'm surprised how much she WANTS to eat with her pain better managed I would be more worried about undermedicating him for pain (most times doses are split for guinea pigs twice a day, as they metabolize meds faster than a cat or dog.)

Definitely worth seeing the vet again, continuing on with pain relief, asking about splitting the dose of pain relief, and do start syringing him some food (mushed up pellets or Critical Care emergency feed from the vet) to help his weight stabilize.

All the best to you and your piggie, ((HUGS)) to you. It sounds like you have a lot going on right now and a sick pet is never easy.

 

[Piggies&buns]

How is Tuck?
Did you manage to speak to the vet about pain relief?
How has he been with syringe feeding - did you manage to get a good amount of syringe feed into him yesterday, is his weight stable today?

 

[Tookadaboo]

I can't thank you all enough for your expertise and for your profound empathy - I've been plagued with lack of sleep over the idea of possibly neglecting Tuck's needs and being a bad owner. It's been such a stressful period for my little family lately but I'm happy to say Tuck is doing very well this morning! Last I weighed him yesterday he was 851g. Today he shot up to 868g! He's been on a downward trend for about a week since he had his teeth filed so this is super encouraging and such a relief. I also caught him on his meadow box this morning and when he came running over to greet me by the fridge, he happily dove into a bag of Bistro Salad.

He fought the syringe feeding I did every step of the way yesterday (mushed up Science Selective pellets), to the point I gave him one gentle syringe-full, put him down to rest for an hour or so before giving him some more to prevent him growing too stressed. I've never had Metacam for my piggies before so I wasn't aware of how fast they metabolised it or how much they required. (He's finished his prescribed bottle already.) To answer some previous questions, Tuck had his dental done on the 26th of July and it was only for his back teeth - his incisors were looking in perfect shape according to the vet. I've heard of teeth sloping in guineas but never experienced it myself as of yet, and the vet appeared very happy with his little gob.

My vet opens up at 8:30 today, I plan to call them and get him booked in for a check-up. I'm going to ask for some more Metacam and also recovery feed to ensure he keeps up with his weight gain. He's still prone to bouts of rest, but he's definitely been munching a lot more on hay cookies, salads, meadow boxes, celery sticks... I honestly feel like I can breathe again. I know he isn't out of the woods yet, but the fact he's fighting is all I need to know. My vet is actually very reputable around my parts, so I'm surprised at the information you've all told me. I wonder if because it was a teeth filing, they didn't think he would need excessive pain relief...? It's hard to say, but I only want the absolute best for Tuck and for him to be comfortable.

His droppings have been quite small, but for the past day or so they have been growing in size.

I can't expect you all to reiterate everything in the guides you've linked me – just linking the material was a tremendous help and I've carefully went through all of it. I suppose I was in such a state that I found it hard to navigate to it myself in my frame of mind and thought it best to explain my situation outright, so sorry if I may have put out any members because of that. The experience I've gotten from this has been invaluable, however grim the circumstances, and should serve me well now in guinea pig care for the future.

I'm sorry to hear others are in similar positions with their own piggies (@Freela), and given the sudden situation I've been faced with Tuck, it definitely is unimaginably hard. I had no idea. I hope you can take care of yourself as well as your little fluffy little house potato, and I'll do my best to do the same. I'll still post updates until I'm happy Tuck is making a markedly strong recovery. Again, thank you so much everyone.

And extra special thank you to @Merab's Slave for being so kind. Everyone has been in this thread, but your words definitely helped reassure me in what's been such a difficult time. I've been given a sick note from my doctor so at least that gives me time to look after my fur baby while also giving me time to recover myself. Thank you all.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m glad to hear he has put some weight on, that is good news. Keep going with syringe feeding and daily weight checks.
Poop output is 1-2 days behind food intake so it’ll be a few days of a good amount of eating before his poops get back to normal.
You can buy recovery feeds from pet shops/Amazon etc so don’t worry if they vets don’t have any in (you would like to think they would though!)
Keep us posted and I’ve got my fingers crossed for him

 

[weepweeps]

That’s great news. I’m so happy Tuck is improving. Yes it is very stressful when our fur babies are unwell and they depend on us to save their lives. Keep going you are doing an amazing job.

 

[Merab]

Glad to hear there’s some improvement in Tuck and I’m glad we could help.
That’s part of what makes the forum special - we support each other in the difficult times and there’s so much experience here to be shared.
Will continue to hold you in my heart

 

[Tookadaboo]

Thank you so, so much for your kind words. <3 You've all been a lifeline in terms of his recovery and even mine in terms of Mental Health.

I booked another appointment with the vet today and just returned. It turns out Tuck may be suffering from a chest infection which would certainly complicate his appetite – the vet says one of his lungs is clear, while the other sounds like it's a bit congested/gargley near the bottom. They weighed him again and I can at least happily say from this morning he put on another 4g.

They injected some Prevomax into his tummy to keep his gut moving and gave me Meloxidyl (another brand name for Metacam I was informed) 5ml, and Baytril 2.5ml I believe, which is an antibiotic if I recall correctly. They also gave me two sachets of emergency feed (Science Selective, so hopefully he'll find it palatable as it's one of his pellet brands at present), and for free no less which was nice. They also advised getting some baby food to try mixing it in with his medicine/recovery feed, and even popping a tiny drop of sugar-free Ribena into the Baytril to help him take it as some guineas hate the taste.

I've just given him both medicines via syringe and, Ribena or no, he just hates being syringe fed the poor thing. I went back out and bought some of his favourite round lettuce, along with organic apple and pear baby food and yes, a bottle of Ribena just incase he needs it. The vet says the meds should work within 24-48 hours and I should see some improvement, and if anything gets worse to pop back.

It's not the best news and I'm concerned over the stress levels of Tuck (I'm letting him rest completely now and he's hiding behind the back of his pen) but I'm optimistic that he's eating and that we've caught the infection fast enough to treat it effectively. He seems a little ruffled up but also his usual, characterful self in ways, so I'll keep monitoring his weight each day and syringe feeding him if it starts to decline once again. (He appears to be eating a lot more today so I don't want to cause anymore undue stress if I can avoid it.)

Keep his progress posted, as always. Thank you all so much for your care and knowledge, I honestly can't say it enough.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Baytril does not taste nice so most piggies do not take it willingly. I find it actually easier to not use ribena or any sweetener and to instead just administer the meds and follow it up with something nice tasting. By diluting baytril with another liquid, you are just increasing the volume of liquid which you need to get into an already reluctant piggy. Give either way a go and see what works for you!

I would recommend you get some probiotic. Antibiotics can kill off the good gut bacteria and upset digestion and appetite. A probiotic can help replace the bacteria and settle the gut. Give it 1-2 hours either before or after an antibiotic dose (not at the same time as). Something like Fibreplex, or Pro c will be useful.
Better still, does he have a healthy companion? If so, then poop soup will work wonders. If directly replaces the gut microbiome and can combat the antibiotic effect.

Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links

You can mix in some baby food, but you need to make sure it is just a small amount, enough to sweeten it and encourage him to take but it but not so much it fills him up before he gets the essential fibre from the recovery feed.

Keep offering the syringe feed, particularly if the antibiotics do affect his appetite. It’s not always easy, but it is so important he gets enough fibre.

Have they given a better dose of the pain killer?

 

[Free Ranger]

Nobody likes bitter Baytril. We usually get the 2.5% and it's about 0.2ml twice each day for by adult pigs. Luckily 0.2ml is quite a small volume. The first time George had it I was pretty confident because they can't really spit things out so I was all "once it's in, it's in!" but George froze in horror with mouth agape and most of it just rolled back out again. I hadn't planned on that! Now he gets daily metacam which he loves and is eager for the syringe - I feel like I'm tricking him if he has to have Baytril so I touch the syringe to his lip to warn him before I hold his head to get it in. When he realises he shrieks in such a dramatic way the neighbours must wonder what's going on! But it's over quickly and then he gets his metacam.

Good luck little Tuck, we're all rooting for you x

 

[eileen]

I'm sorry I've just found this thread.you are doing a wonderful job of caring for Tuck.I'm sending you positive thoughts and support.

 

[Tookadaboo]

Baytril does not taste nice so most piggies do not take it willingly. I find it actually easier to not use ribena or any sweetener and to instead just administer the meds and follow it up with something nice tasting. By diluting baytril with another liquid, you are just increasing the volume of liquid which you need to get into an already reluctant piggy. Give either way a go and see what works for you!

I would recommend you get some probiotic. Antibiotics can kill off the good gut bacteria and upset digestion and appetite. A probiotic can help replace the bacteria and settle the gut. Give it 1-2 hours either before or after an antibiotic dose (not at the same time as). Something like Fibreplex, or Pro c will be useful.
Better still, does he have a healthy companion? If so, then poop soup will work wonders. If directly replaces the gut microbiome and can combat the antibiotic effect.

Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links

You can mix in some baby food, but you need to make sure it is just a small amount, enough to sweeten it and encourage him to take but it but not so much it fills him up before he gets the essential fibre from the recovery feed.

Keep offering the syringe feed, particularly if the antibiotics do affect his appetite. It’s not always easy, but it is so important he gets enough fibre.

Have they given a better dose of the pain killer?

I did just that for Tuck regarding the Baytril – I didn't dilute it and followed it up with some tasty green round lettuce. He's reluctant on all fronts with anything to do with the syringe, so no matter what I do or what's in it it's a fight. I already have some Pro-C and I've been adding it to his food and water, so I'm already covering the antibiotic effects as best I can.

Tuck doesn't have a healthy companion I'm afraid and very sad to say. I plan to make a big change in my life and move to America with my fiancé (who's from over there) and we can't take Tuck with us when that move happens – planes and guineas don't mix when we looked into it. We've both agreed to stay here in the UK until it's his time and consider it the best course. We did look into getting him a mate and discussed different options with our vet in the past, but he isn't neutered and given his age they weren't convinced it was a good option given the risk of anaesthetic. Even if we did we'd have to find an older companion and have them successfully bond, and then it'd be a case of looking after two lovely guineas until they end of their lives with a time limit of us eventually moving over the pond down the line. It's sadly complicated and it does break my heart. When I adopted Tuck from the pet store, before my life turned topsy-turvy with an American, they said he didn't get along well with other guineas. I don't entirely believe that now that I know better, but I hope you can appreciate my situation is definitely a tricky one. And maybe I'm selfish here, but I simply can't bear to give him up to a shelter. I love him too dearly and don't want him ripped away from all he's known. I hope you don't look down on me for this admittance.

Thank you for the baby food advice, I'll be sure to make a thin spread of it with the recovery food. The painkiller is still the same 0.2ml dose daily - do you think I should administer a higher dose or do it twice daily to cover the 12 hour metabolism?

Nobody likes bitter Baytril. We usually get the 2.5% and it's about 0.2ml twice each day for by adult pigs. Luckily 0.2ml is quite a small volume. The first time George had it I was pretty confident because they can't really spit things out so I was all "once it's in, it's in!" but George froze in horror with mouth agape and most of it just rolled back out again. I hadn't planned on that! Now he gets daily metacam which he loves and is eager for the syringe - I feel like I'm tricking him if he has to have Baytril so I touch the syringe to his lip to warn him before I hold his head to get it in. When he realises he shrieks in such a dramatic way the neighbours must wonder what's going on! But it's over quickly and then he gets his metacam.

Good luck little Tuck, we're all rooting for you x

That is exactly what Tuck has looking at the bottle! Same amount of Baytril. And poor George! I wish Tuck was as eager for Metacam, but I'm glad he doesn't drama queen squeak when he takes it. In honest, despite his usual syringe fight, when I did get the drops in he took it like a champ.

I'm sorry I've just found this thread.you are doing a wonderful job of caring for Tuck.I'm sending you positive thoughts and support.

Thank you all so much for your well wishes. They honestly mean so much and I do feel guilty given my situation. I hope people can understand and that I don't take my decisions lightly. It's been a constant struggle with my conscience because I truly want the best for him. I'm doing everything I can to help him recover.





Tuck says thank you.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thank you for the baby food advice, I'll be sure to make a thin spread of it with the recovery food. The painkiller is still the same 0.2ml dose daily - do you think I should administer a higher dose or do it twice daily to cover the 12 hour metabolism?

Only the vet can tell you to increase the dose.
How much does he weigh?

 

[Free Ranger]

What a lovely set up! And you've weighed up his needs so carefully before you decided. We've had a similar conversation about my old boy George who lives here with his companions. George gets impacted and needs to be 'dealt with' every night. It started in 2020 and of course this coincided with covid. But this year when it came to planning a break (first time since 2019) we've decided to holiday separately so someone is always here to look after George. He is timid so even if there was a willing neighbour he'd be frightened if a stranger caught him and turned him over! But he understands what's happening when it's us. I thought of boarding him but he's old and he wouldn't understand it was just for a week - he'd think that was it.

Besides which I think Tuck is just looking after you by making sure that your American is committed My friends were in a similar position when younger, him over here, her in Germany, she wanted to come over but didn't want to take her old boy away from all he'd known... except he was a horse and horses can live a looong time! After a year or so they decided to split but remain friends - and it was the best thing for everyone. The horse lived on (for donkey's years!) and she ended up marrying a lovely German guy and living there. And vets in the States aren't cheap and our US members will tell you it's hard to find one that treats piggies in some areas. But if Tuck can pull through and one day you find yourself thinking again about UK rescues there is a link to recommended ones at the top on the green bar and you could go down yourself to check them out x

 

[Swissgreys]

Tuck is clearly a very character filled guinea pig and he is very lucky to have such a caring and committed owner.
No one her will look down on you for your decisions, particularly when it is clear he receives the best care possible.

And please tell Tuck he is not alone in his loathing of Baytril.
When our piggy Ruby had to have it she absolutely hated it!
Ruby's Baytril face

 

[Tookadaboo]

Only the vet can tell you to increase the dose.
How much does he weigh?

That's understandable - I admit I took initiative last night and gave him an extra dose of Metacam to help relieve any pain over the 12 hour period while I was asleep. Tuck's weight this morning was 853g. It's been going up and down throughout the day, which given the slew of medicine he's now on is something I expected. It's at about 855g right now. I've been trying to syringe feed him where I can (recovery food) but he makes it very difficult. I try to ensure he rests where possible after Baytril/Metacam/Recovery Food syringing to minimise stress.

What a lovely set up! And you've weighed up his needs so carefully before you decided. We've had a similar conversation about my old boy George who lives here with his companions. George gets impacted and needs to be 'dealt with' every night. It started in 2020 and of course this coincided with covid. But this year when it came to planning a break (first time since 2019) we've decided to holiday separately so someone is always here to look after George. He is timid so even if there was a willing neighbour he'd be frightened if a stranger caught him and turned him over! But he understands what's happening when it's us. I thought of boarding him but he's old and he wouldn't understand it was just for a week - he'd think that was it.

Besides which I think Tuck is just looking after you by making sure that your American is committed My friends were in a similar position when younger, him over here, her in Germany, she wanted to come over but didn't want to take her old boy away from all he'd known... except he was a horse and horses can live a looong time! After a year or so they decided to split but remain friends - and it was the best thing for everyone. The horse lived on (for donkey's years!) and she ended up marrying a lovely German guy and living there. And vets in the States aren't cheap and our US members will tell you it's hard to find one that treats piggies in some areas. But if Tuck can pull through and one day you find yourself thinking again about UK rescues there is a link to recommended ones at the top on the green bar and you could go down yourself to check them out x

Thank you so much for understanding. I'm so glad I'm not alone in being in similar situations, but I so wish I could give him a pen mate. That's quite a huge commitment you've made to George, and it's so nice to know he's being so carefully looked after! Poor soul, my heart goes out to him and to you for having to take separate breaks. You're probably right about him making my Yankee committed! If anything though, he's the one committed to Tuck through and through. He'd never seen a guinea pig before meeting me believe it or not, and the two are like papa and son now. He adores him dearly and I often see the pair watching TV or playing games together - seriously, Tuck sits on his back or in his lap and licks his fingers and toes at every chance.

Wow, a horse?! I can understand why they had to make such a hard decision... and thank you for the rescue links. I do think in future I'll consider getting some rescue piggies no matter where I am and make sure to find a reputable guinea pig vet with good insurance in the States. My priority is on my little man right now though. I'm still worried sick.

Tuck is clearly a very character filled guinea pig and he is very lucky to have such a caring and committed owner.
No one her will look down on you for your decisions, particularly when it is clear he receives the best care possible.

And please tell Tuck he is not alone in his loathing of Baytril.
When our piggy Ruby had to have it she absolutely hated it!
Ruby's Baytril face

Aww, thank you so much. Just hearing that warms my heart. And I burst out laughing at poor Ruby's face at the Baytril - it must truly taste horrible. Bit personal, but I had a bit of a funny turn last night and ended up in A&E this morning where they've apparently made the brilliant idea of moving my local walk-in centre. (Hence my lack of responding.) That video really helped me through that tense experience, so thank you.

 

[Free Ranger]

Oh do remember to look after yourself as well It can be very stressful nursing a sick piggy and the everyday uncertainty of not knowing what is going to happen weights very heavily. Tuck might be having a tricky time of it but he's in his own house and familiar things will reassure him. We have to try and keep our normal rhythms or its just stress and chaos. George has just had a giant calcium stone squeezed out of his tiny tinkle by the vet and he goes back at the end of this week for an exam - and hopefully an x-ray. I'm just getting a very uneasy feeling he's not out of the woods although his poops are back to normal and he's peeing OK. But George is feeling better than he has in a while, so whatever happens I'm trying to focus on the today!

 

[Freela]

So glad he's hanging in there. You are certainly doing a great job taking care of him. All the best to you and Tuck, I hope he continues to improve for you!

 

[Tookadaboo]

You're all so kind and amazing.

Oh do remember to look after yourself as well It can be very stressful nursing a sick piggy and the everyday uncertainty of not knowing what is going to happen weights very heavily. Tuck might be having a tricky time of it but he's in his own house and familiar things will reassure him. We have to try and keep our normal rhythms or its just stress and chaos. George has just had a giant calcium stone squeezed out of his tiny tinkle by the vet and he goes back at the end of this week for an exam - and hopefully an x-ray. I'm just getting a very uneasy feeling he's not out of the woods although his poops are back to normal and he's peeing OK. But George is feeling better than he has in a while, so whatever happens I'm trying to focus on the today!

You're absolutely right about nursing sick piggies! I've been struggling so hard – and maybe it's not proper to admit that, since Mental Health is still fairly looked down upon despite society's insistence that it's more widely accepted. (Tell that to employers.) And poor George! Oh dear, if Tuck heard that he'd be crossing his poor little pork chop legs. I'm so glad your little man sounds like he's doing better, but I'm sending all my love and well wishes to you both and hope you come out of the situation swinging.

So glad he's hanging in there. You are certainly doing a great job taking care of him. All the best to you and Tuck, I hope he continues to improve for you!

I'm doing my best, thank you so much.

I'm afraid to say Tuck's been losing weight despite my best efforts at feeding him recovery feed. He fights the syringe each and every time. It's so messy, but I make sure to give him his Baytril and Metcam doses as instructed. He's been lethargic and sleeping most days away, but this evening he seems to have pepped up after I mashed up a different pellet brand to syringe-feed him rather than the recovery feed. (I also blended some Pro-C into it to help make it more palatable and to fight off the antibiotic side-effects.) I've watched him for the past hour or two and he's been a bit more like his usual self, going back to hay cookies and celery sticks he's been leaving for days now.

I'm going to weigh him in the morning and cross my fingers for progress since I don't want to cause him anymore stress tonight. (His breathing is on the heavier side due to his chest infection, and when he fights my syringe-feeding I worry he overexerts himself as sometimes he goes limp after a few hearty struggles.) I'm hoping once he finishes his Baytril he'll start to gain weight like he did shortly before his secondary Vet visit when he was just on the Metacam. Still trying my best to remain optimistic, but all I can do is remind myself that I'm giving him the best possible care I can. The rest is up to him.

 

[Piggies&buns]

You’re doing so well. We are all here to support you

 

[weepweeps]

You are doing absolutely everything you can. You are right. We can only help them so much. At the end of the day they will recover or they won’t. But if they don’t we need to know we did everything we could for them. I know how tiring it is to syringe feed a piggy. I’ve just stopped feeding my Pepper after 4 weeks of syringe feeds and now my other piggy Percy had an op today for a bladder stone removal so I will have to help him for a couple of days. Good luck.

 

[Tookadaboo]

I lost Tuck today.

He was getting better, putting on weight... then the past few days he suddenly became very lethargic. He's done so in the past with the heat, so I thought if I gave him space to recover he'd be okay. I gave him a scratch on the head, bundled hay around him, gave him a few pets then headed off to work about 4am.

Later in the afternoon my partner calls beside himself saying Tuck isn't doing well. Next couple of minutes he says he's gone. I rush out of work citing family emergency - I hope they understand, guinea pig or no, that he was every bit of family as my own unfurred one. Guess I'll face the consequences tomorrow...

Absolutely heartbroken. He was so special and such a character. I just wish I knew what happened. Apparently he was struggling to breathe, throwing up a little, and he suddenly couldn't walk. He then collapsed and passed away. My partner was with him the whole time. He said a quick net search said he couldn't swallow his own saliva, but we're not sure. If anyone could let us know what happened, it will help give us a bit more closure.

We loved him so much. We still love him so much. I have a candle lit for him and for everyone's other little lost fur babies. It's so hard.

 

[weepweeps]

I’m so sorry you have lost Tuck. Popcorn high at the bridge. Take care