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Summer&Autumn's Mommy

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Hi everyone!

I have two guinea pig sows named Summer and Autumn (6 & 10 months old). They came from the same home, it appeared they were kept outside and not given much attention as the breeder was hospitalised and getting old. Autumn has always been very timid and scatty, while summer has always been pretty bold, outgoing and vocal. Despite this, Autumn has always been the dominant piggie!

I have had them for around 5 months now but Autumn has been a lot more dominant recently, she has been chasing and harassing Summer and has started biting her bum at every chance she can get. There is a lot of teeth chattering from Autumn and taking out chunks of summers hair 🥺

I had separated them for a few days and then brought them back together with the pet therapy bonding spray and all is well...until it isnt! I have done this a few times, even after a bath and change of bedding, yet Autumn still launches for Summer. I am not sure what to do at this point as I do not have the space to separate them for good (as the vets have advised). They have also suggested rehoming them separately...so at this point any advice would be greatly appreciated ❤❤
 
I am not sure what pet therapy bonding spray is, or what it is supposed to change but you must introduce pigs in a neutral territory.
What do you mean by biting her bum, like blood drawn biting or nipping, and as for chunks of summer hair is it more like barbering or is she biting her and then resulting in hair being ripped out.
Is autumn spayed? If not there is a chance she is in season, strong seasons can also mean your girl is having issues with cysts/her ovaries but this is not always the case.

If they have their heads raised and then they are launching at each other, then that can signify a broken bond and you are somewhat unlikely to get any change from that, if it is more chasing and dominance then it may just be normal dominance behaviors and removing them from each other will have upset the normal working out of that.
If you wish to try again to re-introduce, providing you had not been doing it in a neutral area then please do so in a safe neutral area with a nice big pile of hay.
There is no need to bath a hormonal pig, as they will just continue to create any smell and you are just making them susceptible to dry skin etc.

P.S There is a lot more to a guinea pigs relationship than can be related through a post online, so you are likely to know what is best and whether they seem to doing normal dominance stuff or if it is more than that.
I recommend you read these guides to get a better understanding on what is going on with your girls -
Bonds In Trouble
Barbering ( Eating Hair)
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
 
I’m sorry to hear this.

Nipping is a gesture of power and on its own is not concerning.
However pulling out hair is the sow equivalent of a full on boar fight.
It sounds like their bond is sadly in trouble. A spray or bathing them (buddy baths are not recommended anymore - it can cause more stress and actually won’t do anything for their bond at all) is not going to make a single bit of difference. A bond comes down to character compatibility and if they don’t have it, then I’m afraid there is nothing you can do about that.

It is not likely to be any issue with cysts given they are very young. Cysts don’t tend to be an issue until they are over 2-3 years old.

If you have tried a separation and neutral territory reintroduction but the behaviour continued straight away, then usually that is a clear indication of a dysfunctional bond.

Bonds In Trouble
 
I apologize. Ignore what I said about cysts, I was only wondering if the sudden change could be down to her seasons and thought to share the other knowledge I had on seasons/ovaries as I had brought it up anyway, completely disregarding their age.

Unfortunately some piggies just aren't meant to be.

Wishing you and your girls all the best x
 
piggl said:
I am not sure what pet therapy bonding spray is, or what it is supposed to change but you must introduce pigs in a neutral territory.
What do you mean by biting her bum, like blood drawn biting or nipping, and as for chunks of summer hair is it more like barbering or is she biting her and then resulting in hair being ripped out.
Is autumn spayed? If not there is a chance she is in season, strong seasons can also mean your girl is having issues with cysts/her ovaries but this is not always the case.

If they have their heads raised and then they are launching at each other, then that can signify a broken bond and you are somewhat unlikely to get any change from that, if it is more chasing and dominance then it may just be normal dominance behaviors and removing them from each other will have upset the normal working out of that.
If you wish to try again to re-introduce, providing you had not been doing it in a neutral area then please do so in a safe neutral area with a nice big pile of hay.
There is no need to bath a hormonal pig, as they will just continue to create any smell and you are just making them susceptible to dry skin etc.

P.S There is a lot more to a guinea pigs relationship than can be related through a post online, so you are likely to know what is best and whether they seem to doing normal dominance stuff or if it is more than that.
I recommend you read these guides to get a better understanding on what is going on with your girls -
Bonds In Trouble
Barbering ( Eating Hair)
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Click to expand...
Hi Piggl, thank you for your advice!

I think she is nipping and biting and the hair is coming out in chunks as a result, like one big tuft of hair. There is no obvious bleeding but i have noticed a scab or two on her behind.

Summer is very submissive so there are no head raising, she just means loudly whenever Autumn gets close or moves out of the way. I will try to reintroduce them in a neutral environment and have a read of your suggested articles!

Thank you! ❤
 
Piggies&buns said:
I’m sorry to hear this.

Nipping is a gesture of power and on its own is not concerning.
However pulling out hair is the sow equivalent of a full on boar fight.
It sounds like their bond is sadly in trouble. A spray or bathing them (buddy baths are not recommended anymore - it can cause more stress and actually won’t do anything for their bond at all) is not going to make a single bit of difference. A bond comes down to character compatibility and if they don’t have it, then I’m afraid there is nothing you can do about that.

It is not likely to be any issue with cysts given they are very young. Cysts don’t tend to be an issue until they are over 2-3 years old.

If you have tried a separation and neutral territory reintroduction but the behaviour continued straight away, then usually that is a clear indication of a dysfunctional bond.

Bonds In Trouble
Click to expand...
Yes, they are very much opposites in personality, I see them as ying and yang. Sometimes they touch noses and I think that they are getting on again, do you know anything about that?
 
Being opposites in personality is not a problem but finding scabs means that contact is being made which is not good I’m afraid. Actual bites are concerning
 
Is there nothing you can do to their accommodation to make it suitable to have them side by side?

If you do rehome them please see if there is a local rescue near you to make sure they go to a appropriate home, and as you know they would need to find a new friend and the rescue should do that for you. If there were no possible options to keep both of them would you consider keeping one?
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/guinea-pig-forum-recommended-rescues.196734/
 
piggl said:
Is there nothing you can do to their accommodation to make it suitable to have them side by side?

If you do rehome them please see if there is a local rescue near you to make sure they go to a appropriate home, and as you know they would need to find a new friend and the rescue should do that for you. If there were no possible options to keep both of them would you consider keeping one?
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/guinea-pig-forum-recommended-rescues.196734/
Click to expand...
Thank you for the advice. I know it may sound silly but I think Autumn has abandonment issues/trust issues due to being left behind from her previous litter and dominated by other Guinea pigs in her previous home. When I got them, they both had scabs around their ears from other pigs biting and Autumn had a lot of scabs on her bum and around her nose with visible gashes. I applied cream regularly and gave ivermectin incase of any infection and she was scab free and healed within a month.

I worry that she may not cope well with rehoming as it has taken so long for her to warm up to me. Summer is more vibrant and easier to interact with, but she is difficult to groom and take care of as she is very much a "my way or the high way" kind of sow. She has bitten me several times in the past where I have had to put a bandage on my hand and have scars from bites too. So she would need a place that would be patient and considerate of her temperament. So these piggies are not the easiest for sure! I wonder If their early life experiences have made them a lot more difficult than the typical guinea pig...all I know is that I dont know how I could possibly pick one as they are so so different and loveable in their own way.
 
Summer&Autumn's Mommy said:
Thank you for the advice. I know it may sound silly but I think Autumn has abandonment issues/trust issues due to being left behind from her previous litter and dominated by other Guinea pigs in her previous home. When I got them, they both had scabs around their ears from other pigs biting and Autumn had a lot of scabs on her bum and around her nose with visible gashes. I applied cream regularly and gave ivermectin incase of any infection and she was scab free and healed within a month.

I worry that she may not cope well with rehoming as it has taken so long for her to warm up to me. Summer is more vibrant and easier to interact with, but she is difficult to groom and take care of as she is very much a "my way or the high way" kind of sow. She has bitten me several times in the past where I have had to put a bandage on my hand and have scars from bites too. So she would need a place that would be patient and considerate of her temperament. So these piggies are not the easiest for sure! I wonder If their early life experiences have made them a lot more difficult than the typical guinea pig...all I know is that I dont know how I could possibly pick one as they are so so different and loveable in their own way.
Click to expand...

So are you thinking that you would only keep one of them and keep her single?
We would highly advise against that because a piggy kept without any interaction at all will become lonely. If you determine that their bond is failing, then they need to be kept side by side or rehome one and make sure the one you keep is bonded with another piggy.
 
Piggies&buns said:
So are you thinking that you would only keep one of them and keep her single?
We would highly advise against that because a piggy kept without any interaction at all will become lonely. If you determine that their bond is failing, then they need to be kept side by side or rehome one and make sure the one you keep is bonded with another piggy.
Click to expand...
No I understand piggies are social animals and would not want to have one piggie on isolation. I am keeping an eye on them though. Thank you very much for your support!
 
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