Piggie 2 weeks post op still won't drink

[GirlsofThrones]

Hi, I'm looking for some support/advice before I make a decision please.
My 2 year old piggie L'oreal went in for bladder stone surgery 2 weeks ago. After an initial struggle for a couple of days her appetite picked up and she was happily eating everything infront of her and pooping/weeing well. The vet told me post op she had the most calcified bladder sludge she had ever seen, and they weren't able to get everything out while trying to keep the amount of time under anaesthetic to a minimum. But they gave me the stones and sludge in a tube and my god it was a LOT. Vet thinks she must be genetically predisposed to this as shes so young with such extensive damage.
We went through her diet etc and no alarm bells there, the main take home message was, make sure she drinks LOTS. However, as much as she's eating, she has not drank a drop and it's 2 weeks on, she's got a bottle and a bowl of water, I've tried a little fruit juice in the water and currently have cucumber pieces in the water so she gets extra water when she picks them out. But I set up a camera and she does not drink. I've been syringing her water 4 times a day so cut that right back til she had none from me yesterday. I wake up this morning to find her still able to wee but now crying and bleeding while doing it. Is there anything else I can do for her? I'm going to ring the vets tomorrow if shes no better but I can't syringe her water for the rest of her life, and I'm actually going in for my own surgery next week so I won't be able to help her at all then. Any ideas/advice welcome please !

 

[Swissgreys]

Welcome to the Forum and I am very sorry to hear about your girl.
It really does sound like you are doing all the right things for her and I can't offer much advice about the drinking, however I am sure someone else with more experience will be along soon.

I did however want to offer some support with the bladder sludge/stones issue.
Our piggy Ruby also had a full blockage caused from stones/sludge at around age 2.
She also had emergency surgery to fix this, and we were also told that given her age she may be genetically disposed to sludge/stones.
We were deeply concerned, but honestly she has never had a serious issue since.
She does occasionally get some 'thicker' wees (if that makes sense) but at that point I simply feed all her veg liberally doused in filtered water and it seems to sort the problem out.

Maybe this is something you could try with your girl?
I put all veg into a colander and pour water over the top, then put it on a plate in the cage.
It is literally dripping wet, but helps to up the water consumption in a reluctant drinker.

Oh and Ruby turned 6 last week.
I have everything crossed for you and your beautiful piggy.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi, I'm looking for some support/advice before I make a decision please.
My 2 year old piggie L'oreal went in for bladder stone surgery 2 weeks ago. After an initial struggle for a couple of days her appetite picked up and she was happily eating everything infront of her and pooping/weeing well. The vet told me post op she had the most calcified bladder sludge she had ever seen, and they weren't able to get everything out while trying to keep the amount of time under anaesthetic to a minimum. But they gave me the stones and sludge in a tube and my god it was a LOT. Vet thinks she must be genetically predisposed to this as shes so young with such extensive damage.
We went through her diet etc and no alarm bells there, the main take home message was, make sure she drinks LOTS. However, as much as she's eating, she has not drank a drop and it's 2 weeks on, she's got a bottle and a bowl of water, I've tried a little fruit juice in the water and currently have cucumber pieces in the water so she gets extra water when she picks them out. But I set up a camera and she does not drink. I've been syringing her water 4 times a day so cut that right back til she had none from me yesterday. I wake up this morning to find her still able to wee but now crying and bleeding while doing it. Is there anything else I can do for her? I'm going to ring the vets tomorrow if shes no better but I can't syringe her water for the rest of her life, and I'm actually going in for my own surgery next week so I won't be able to help her at all then. Any ideas/advice welcome please !

Hi and welcome!

There are usually several factors in play for stones to form; a genetic disposition is only one of the possibles but can be in play. Not being a natural drinker is often another contributing factor. Unfortunately, you cannot make your piggies drink more than they have the need for.

Please follow our much more comprehensive diet recommendations. Many people (including vets not seeing lots of piggies) are not aware that most calcium in the diet comes with the water (especially in a hard water country like the UK, so please filter or use low calcium bottled water) and pellets, which you need to reduce to 1 tablespoon per piggy day. Even no added calcium pellets contain more calcium weight per weight than the veg highest in calcium. You cannot cut all calcium out of the diet as too little can also cause an imbalance and contribute to stones and long term problems. There is a kind of 'soft spot' that can vary from location to location.

From your picture, you seem to be overfeeding on veg (hence why your piggy has no need to drink because they get enough water to no be thirsty) and you also overfeed on the wrong kind of veg (keep in mind that carrot is like a bar of chocolate for a guinea pig). Root veg like carrots should be at the best an occasional treat or left altogether with a bladder stone piggy. The additional factor to calcium that needs to be taken into consideration are oxalates, which are involved in the formation of stones and sludge; and those you want to really cut down.
That is why our diet recommendations additionally cut out whole food groups like root veg and grains and not just reduce high calcium veg. Unfortunately, with oxalates, you want to go as low as you can get away with.
Please look up the respective chapter in the special diets for practical detailed guidance on what to feed and what not. Our experiences are grounded in our longer term forum experience and the experiences and trials we have done with our own piggies.
Please accept that it takes weeks to process the nutrients (including calcium and oxalates) around the body, so a diet change won't be a quick fix. It is however crucial for the long term. if you are wrried about not drinking, off her a larger slice of cucumber twice daily but be aware that your piggy will not need any more fluid whether it comes in edible or drinkable form.
Here is the link: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

You piggy has very much a more unusual form of agglomerated sharp mini-stones/crystals rather than the normal smoother stones. I haven't seen them since my Minx (2004-07). I would expect that you are up against a genetic issue, additionally. Unfortunately, the irregular size and sharp edges mean that the damage to the bladder whenever it is tumbled around and banging into around the exit hole is much greater than with a conventional stone; so the symptoms you are currently seeing could be from bladder trauma (bladder injury) or from a secondary bacterial cystitis (bladder infection) as a result of the damage; only a scan will tell as the symptoms are very similar and stones can re-form very quickly after an operation.

It would be good if you asked your vet for a high dosage of dog metacam for the pain/inflammation in the bladder and discussed potassion citrate and perhaps a course of antibiotic if a secondary bladder infection is suspected. Any new stones will unfortunately have to come out.
Glucosamine is very important because the scratchy stones your piggy is suffering from scrapes to the natural glucosamine coating of the bladder walls (and those of the urinary tract) that prevent the very corrosive urine from coming into painful direct contact with raw tissue. We recommend a cat bladder supplement in capsule form like cystease/cystophan/cystaid (UK brands) for ease of application. You mix the contents of 1 capsule with 2 ml of water and then give them either in one go every 24 hours or 1ml of the solution every 12 hours. A small medicine bottle is very useful for the mixing/shaking process. You can discuss with your vet whether giving a capsule every 12 hours for the first week may be OK in view of the nature of the stone. Again, this is not an instant process as it will again take several weeks to build up in the right place but it is a great easer of discomfort for the long term.

I hope that this helps you? The most vulnerable time for bladder stone piggies are the weeks after the operation. The calcium absorption is a very complex process where lots can go wrong; it is also not a quick process.

Wishing you and your poorly piggy all the best.