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Phin Is Not Doing Well

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Harryoc

New Born Pup
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Hi all,

Our pig Phin in the last 2-3 weeks has been consistently losing weight, he is about a 16 months old and at his heaviest weighed about 975g (he's never been as heavy as our other 3).

He was still eating fine but across the last couple of days he's barely eating anything. He will eat half a leaf of Romaine and then wander off, he seems even less interested in other food. He is still drinking water (Though less than usual). When we are looking at him he will sit there looking like he is eating and just chomp on nothing. He will much a but of hay and then repeat pretending and the same with dry food.

He has spent the last couple of days sitting in a corner looking sad and all puffed up. He is usually the dominant piggie, but when Pippin rumbles up to him Phin just looks at the floor. He is also letting us pick him up way to easily.

I'm really starting to worry a lot as his weight this morning has dipped just under 700g, we have tried hand feeding him and syringe giving him water but he ignore most of the food (aside from the vitamin c tablet) and got most of thr water down by his front.

We took him to the vets 8 days ago when he was weighing about 750g and they gave him a full checkup, they couldn't find any lumps or abscesses, his teeth are apparently fine and she check his bum and his man bits (he's not neutered) and they couldn't find anything wrong (Though she did clean out all down there), his chest and body all also sound fine. They asked us to do a urine test, but he's not playing ball and won't stay on a surface where we can collect the wee.

As far as I can tell his poo is normal (maybe a little bit smaller than usual) and as I said before I can't tell about the wee. But he is wasting away and I am terrified, does anyone have any ideas? As the vet seems to be stumped and their next course of action is £250 worth of tests.
 
Hi and welcome!

Please start syringe feeding and watering him asap. Hay should make up to 80% of the food intake, so it is impossible to control that. Weigh daily at the same time to control his weight/food intake. Most often, loss of weight is down to pain somewhere, but it can be sometimes difficult to work out what is going on when there are no obvious signs. Has your vet considered a scan to see whether there is any internal problem (growth, kidney/bladder stone, gassing in the stomach etc.)? Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

You can get a urine sample by placing him in a plastic container after syringing him some water: How To Collect A Urine Sample

Could you please add your country, state/province or UK county to your details so we can adapt any advice accordingly to what is relevant and available, as we have members from all over he world. Click on your username on the top, then go to personal details and scroll down to location. Thank you!
 
Hi Wiebke,

Thank you for your swift reply, I will start the syringe feeding when I get home from work in 3 hours and will follow the Urine sample guide.

I know they're quite good at hiding pain, but upon feeling him around stomach and back I can't feel any bloating/ hard obstructions and he doesn't seem distressed, there isn't really too much of him now so it's very easy to feel him.

With regards to the vet they gave him a full checkup and wasn't sure what was wrong but advised the Urine test first, then said a head x-ray (in case there is something going on under the gums) and potentially a blood test, they didn't suggest doing a scan on his lower body for obstructions/ tumors.

As requested I have updated my profile as well, I will take the steps above and if you have any more advice It would be really appreciated as we are so worried about him.

In addition to this my partner is convinced his eye is cloudy, but I cannot see it, I don't know if this would be an issue.
 
Is the cloudiness inside his eye or on the surface? If it is inside, it is a congenital cataract, and there is nothing you can do about. Guinea pigs can still live a perfectly normal, happy life despite them; I have and have had several of them.
If the cloudiness is sitting on the surface, then it is an ulcerating eye injury that needs treating. Thankfully, eye infections tend to go down nearly as quickly as they come on.

I mentioned the gassing stomach, which was found only with an x-ray because my Ffowlyn had it - and like yours, all you could see and feel was normal, apart from her mystery loss of appetite and weight. It took two vet trips to get to the bottom of it. But I agree it is very unusual because her guts were perfectly normal and so were her poos until she stopped eating and drinking altogether! :(
A dental abscess brewing can cause issues before it is coming out (again because it is painful long before it is showing up).

I would discuss with your vet trying a painkiller to see whether that is bringing some relief - and shows that there is a pain issue somewhere. A scan and worming are the two other avenues to discuss with your vet, but as long as there are no real cues, this is all speculative. Sadly vet cost are climbing up very quickly these days; it is the trade off for being able to do more than in years past.
@helen105281 @Adelle
 
Hi I have been back from work and trying to syringe feed him, I currently only have baby guinea pig food which us high in vitamin c, I have mashed this up as best I can but I am really struggling with making the syringe pick up more than just the water and am not sure how effective I am being.

I have managed to feed Phin about 10ml across the last 6 hours, and about 5ml of water, he's also eaten a stem of corriander and about half a .5cm cucumber cut, he's nibbled at some pepper but stopped. The first feeding session he yanked the syringe off me and kept wanting me to put more in his mouth, he then ate a load of the mashed up pellets off the towel I had him on. However since then it has been a real struggle to get him to take the syringe he keeps tossing his head and pushing it out of his mouth.

He is still excited for food and wandering about though is spending nearly all his time in his igloo.

How forcefully should I be being with this, I know he needs to eat but based on his behaviour I have no idea what is wrong with him and cannot get into the vets until tomorrow, do you have any more advice?
 
Sorry you are facing this unknown problem, always really tricky. Regarding the syringe feeding, you do have to be very determined and it is hard if they are resisting. I wrap wriggly pigs in a teatowel, less bulky than a towel and focus on gently keeping their head as still as possible - see syringe feeding guide which Weibke mentioned. Keep trying and the piggie will get better at the process and you will. You really need to keep him as strong as possible and the fluid and calories in the syringe feed is what he needs, I have radio on or similar to help relax me as if u are really tense the feed usually goes badly. He is not eating enough by himself so this is critical feeding now.

Anyone else add to this, @VickiA @Adelle @pig in the city
 
Warm pellet mash off a spoon often goes down well if piggies don't like syringe feeds. If all else fails I have in desperation fed mine purée of carrot and Apple to get their taste buds going before offering the pellet mash.
 
lauraboara said:
Sorry you are facing this unknown problem, always really tricky. Regarding the syringe feeding, you do have to be very determined and it is hard if they are resisting. I wrap wriggly pigs in a teatowel, less bulky than a towel and focus on gently keeping their head as still as possible - see syringe feeding guide which Weibke mentioned. Keep trying and the piggie will get better at the process and you will. You really need to keep him as strong as possible and the fluid and calories in the syringe feed is what he needs, I have radio on or similar to help relax me as if you are really tense the feed usually goes badly. He is not eating enough by himself so this is critical feeding now.

Anyone else add to this, @VickiA @Adelle @pig in the city
Click to expand...

He's still not eating on his own but I swapped to a bigger syringe with a 1 ml tip, he is taking this and chewing on it, which allows me to give it to him a lot easier

His poo has also become very small and the consistency is not particularly hard so have started giving him Poo soup as we have no pro biotic (I read that healthy pig poo is supposed to help, I hope it will work), he is hating the taste but is slowly dealing with it, I am doing 10ml feeds every 3 hours, I hope I'm doing everything right, a lot of what I'm sucking up in the syringe seems to be mainly water based.
 
VickiA said:
Warm pellet mash off a spoon often goes down well if piggies don't like syringe feeds. If all else fails I have in desperation fed mine purée of carrot and Apple to get their taste buds going before offering the pellet mash.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the tip, unfortunately as I am feeding him through the night I was asleep when this was posted and have missed a chance to dash to the shop, but will definitely try this tomorrow :)
 
helen105281 said:
I'm sorry he is so poorly. Do you have a 1ml syringe and have you cut the tip off?
Click to expand...
I do and I have, he was ok with this syringe at first but he is now really against it (trust him to be fussy about the syringe as well as his food) I am using a syringe with a 12 ml capacity now but it last a long tip as wide as the 1ml one that works in much the same way so I am using this as he will voulentarily keep this in his mouth.
 
Harryoc said:
He's still not eating on his own but I swapped to a bigger syringe with a 1 ml tip, he is taking this and chewing on it, which allows me to give it to him a lot easier

His poo has also become very small and the consistency is not particularly hard so have started giving him Poo soup as we have no pro biotic (I read that healthy pig poo is supposed to help, I hope it will work), he is hating the taste but is slowly dealing with it, I am doing 10ml feeds every 3 hours, I hope I'm doing everything right, a lot of what I'm sucking up in the syringe seems to be mainly water based.
Click to expand...

The pellets havent dissolved enough hence why your only getting water. Add boiling water to the pellets, let them soak up and go soggy then add more water and try blending them in a jug or similar to get the smooth consitency you need for the syringe to draw it up. You may need more water than u expect to prevent a crumbling pellet mess going everywhere!

You are doing great, hopefully the vet can sort him out tomorrow x
 
Adelle said:
The pellets havent dissolved enough hence why your only getting water. Add boiling water to the pellets, let them soak up and go soggy then add more water and try blending them in a jug or similar to get the smooth consitency you need for the syringe to draw it up. You may need more water than you expect to prevent a crumbling pellet mess going everywhere!

You are doing great, hopefully the vet can sort him out tomorrow x
Click to expand...

I have done this and just prepped my next feed and it looks a lot better, thank you so much for the advice/ encouragement, we are halfway through the night, he seems to be a bit more alert and still taking thr syringe voulentarily (even wanting more than the 12ml I gave him) his poo us still small though looking a bit more solid, he's still weighing in at about 690g so still tiny but with the amount I'm feeding him I think his weight stabilising is probably a good thing.
 
You could ask the vet for some gut stimulant such as Zantac (ranitidine) as this will help his poohs move through more normally and this may stimulate his appetite. I add fibreplex to the syringe feed (available on line) as it adds extra fibre and prebiotics, plus a nice carroty taste. Or mix in tomato pulp or small amounts of vegetable based baby food. Hope he improves soon
 
Harryoc said:
Hi I have been back from work and trying to syringe feed him, I currently only have baby guinea pig food which us high in vitamin c, I have mashed this up as best I can but I am really struggling with making the syringe pick up more than just the water and am not sure how effective I am being.

I have managed to feed Phin about 10ml across the last 6 hours, and about 5ml of water, he's also eaten a stem of corriander and about half a .5cm cucumber cut, he's nibbled at some pepper but stopped. The first feeding session he yanked the syringe off me and kept wanting me to put more in his mouth, he then ate a load of the mashed up pellets off the towel I had him on. However since then it has been a real struggle to get him to take the syringe he keeps tossing his head and pushing it out of his mouth.

He is still excited for food and wandering about though is spending nearly all his time in his igloo.

How forcefully should I be being with this, I know he needs to eat but based on his behaviour I have no idea what is wrong with him and cannot get into the vets until tomorrow, do you have any more advice?
Click to expand...

Please cut off the tip off the syringe as shown in our guide and use boiled, warm water to soften the pellets; then mush them further with a spoon to create a smooth paste. if necessary, add a tiny bit more water until it is has a consistency that is ideal for syringing: Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
 
An update on Phin, he has seen another vet who has advised his teeth at the back have grown a bit too long and that he has an ulcer on his tongue, both of which are hampering his ability to eat. He is not sure what caused this but because Phin stopped eating peppers and is very fussy about the pellets he has the vet thinks it could have been vitamin c deficiency.

He has advised we have Phins teeth filed down, which I have agreed to, however based on his weight and that he was given too much anti inflammatory in one dose the vet advised we leave this until Monday because of the anaesthetic. He has injected 80ml of water under the skin this plus the feed he was given in the vets has brought his weight from 680g up to 800g however despite me feeding him 15ml of critical care, 10-15ml of water and him eating some green beans (it's all he will seem to eat aside from the odd strand of hay and nearly an 8th of an orange pepper last night) his weight is back down to 750g.

This being said his poos are now slightly bigger and harder (still very small) and the right colour.

I am still syringe feeding him every 3 hours (which he is still hating) he is also eating a green bean each time (I know in large doses they aren't too good for them but the vet said any food helps).

I am still so worried about him, have rung the vets today to ask about his weight and am just waiting for a call back.

Thank you all so much for your support and help and I will keep this thread updated.
 
I am glad he has a plan! Bear in mind 80ml or water will weigh 80g, and thats all probably been absorbed and wee'd out by this morning.. So technically you are still on an increase in weight from 720-750, and larger poos is a great sign.

Hope all goes well over the weekend x
 
Harryoc said:
An update on Phin, he has seen another vet who has advised his teeth at the back have grown a bit too long and that he has an ulcer on his tongue, both of which are hampering his ability to eat. He is not sure what caused this but because Phin stopped eating peppers and is very fussy about the pellets he has the vet thinks it could have been vitamin c deficiency.

He has advised we have Phins teeth filed down, which I have agreed to, however based on his weight and that he was given too much anti inflammatory in one dose the vet advised we leave this until Monday because of the anaesthetic. He has injected 80ml of water under the skin this plus the feed he was given in the vets has brought his weight from 680g up to 800g however despite me feeding him 15ml of critical care, 10-15ml of water and him eating some green beans (it's all he will seem to eat aside from the odd strand of hay and nearly an 8th of an orange pepper last night) his weight is back down to 750g.

This being said his poos are now slightly bigger and harder (still very small) and the right colour.

I am still syringe feeding him every 3 hours (which he is still hating) he is also eating a green bean each time (I know in large doses they aren't too good for them but the vet said any food helps).

I am still so worried about him, have rung the vets today to ask about his weight and am just waiting for a call back.

Thank you all so much for your support and help and I will keep this thread updated.
Click to expand...

Keep on syringe feeding him little but often over the weekend; the more you can get into him, the better before the operation. You also need to brace yourself that dental guinea pigs usually don't eat straight away after an operation and that it may take more than one round of filing to get the teeth sorted out perfectly. So make sure that you have got plenty of recovery food at home, which you can mix with his pellets if he doesn't like the taste. A guinea pig needs to take in 40-60 ml in fluids and solids in 24 hours, just to stay alive and keep it ticking over during an crisis; in its prime, it will need up to 120 ml daily.

When you bring him home, make sure that he has got painkiller, as his mouth will be very sore.

Here are our post-op recovery tips: Tips For Post-operative Care

@furryfriends (TEAS) @MintyAndGarry (TEAS)
 
Hi all, update on Phin,

He was eating yesterday and had roughly 90ml of food and 40ml of water, we took him to the vet again upon taking him out he was soaked with wee but the vet said that was ok as he had been given a lot of water he looked him over and said we had come a long way since yesterday he was at this point weighing about 750g. The vet said based on how much we had given him he could leave him to rest about 6 hours overnight. As a throwaway remark about food he said if a guinea didn't get excited about bags rustling he would be "very very worried"

Upon getting him home he has lost all enthusiasm for even chewing a little bit of hay and didn't even move when we fed the others which made us really worry about what our vet had said, I have tried feeding him some mashed up pellets and dry food but he is very reluctant and when I get it in his mouth he just keeps it there, since last night (3am currently 8:40) I've been able to get about 25ml of food and about 13ml of water into him as well as his gut stimulant every 8 hours.

He is not anywhere near as wriggly when I pick him up (Though he isn't completely limp either) and isn't leaving his igloo, he currently weighs about 700g which is nearly the lightest he's ever been (660g).

Also since last night he has been doing what looks like little hiccups, which upon googling isn't good, he is still weeing and he's done a couple of poos, he is just sat there standing in the igloo looking at the floor with his eyes half closed, it's really heartbreaking to watch, does this mean he is most likely going? Or is he just in a lot of pain from his teeth/ ulcer?
 
Thank you for your support :) trying to stay positive but it's so hard seeing him like this :(
 
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