PEW or Lethal...please help!

[Phoenix Kitteh]

I first want to start by saying, I found this site during my massive 2 day research mission. I have been trying to figure things out and really just wanting to talk to other piggie parents....so I joined.

I have spent the whole day in tears and I really need help. I adopted a nearly 2 month out "lilac teddy" (or so I was told) 2 weeks ago as a cage mate for my 1yo skinny girl Eir. After bringing the baby home, Frigg, I noticed she had a small case of an upper raspatory issue and head tilt and got her on meds. Well, the day finally came where I got to put my girls together (after 2 weeks of course) and while watching them and the night time cameras, I started to notice little things about the baby Frigg. How she is always hiding (wrote it off as fear at first) and I would see her seemingly bump into things from time to time. She would almost freeze and seem confused when I would remove the beds to clean the cage. After looking into her head tilt (since it didn't go away with meds) I noticed it could be an ear infection or blindness. So, I have a vet appointment next wednesday set in place to check. Though, I have done a slight blindness test on her, but hard to get a good result since she is still new to the house and scared. As I said, she hides and wheeks a lot. Though, in my research I also learned of lethals....something I never knew about. While reading up on them is when the panic set in and I have not stopped crying.

The advice I need is this. Can a PEW be blind to some extent (or fully) and not be a lethal?

I cheeked her teeth and could see all front teeth and they look great. She is a good size (was not smaller than her sisters or brothers when I adopted her). I catch her eating and drinking on camera a lot (thought she is still learning fresh greens are good for her) Her eyes don't really LOOK small to me (though I'm use to piggies a year old and up) and other than the signs of blindness, hiding from fear and wheeking a lot....she seems like a completely normal piggie. She doesn't walk in circles, shakey, fall over, etc as thoughs with a neurological issue would have....etc.

I am in tears because I fear bonding with this sweet baby, just to have her die for a normal piggie time. I fear having the time and emotional strength that it takes to raise up a lethal....

IDK! With all my research, I have not seen a case where there is a blind PEW that is NOT a lethal. Is it possible?

 

[Mo & Stubbins & Vani]

Lethal whites are blind, deaf, and have chronic dental issues, but that doesn't mean that they can't live fulfilled lives. They are born without skin pigmentation and are considered true albinos.
Where did you adopt from? If the rescue is reputable, I doubt they would have allowed you to take in a lethal white without informing you. Can you post a photo? From my understanding, lilac teddies are far from white in color.
I believe that @furryfriends (TEAS) might be able to help!

 

[Phoenix Kitteh]

horrible photo of her. She looks like a Argente in this one. Though maybe my fears are running wild with me with all this and she really is a Argente lilac/white and the lilac is so light that my eyes are playing tricks on me and registering it as she coat is dirty.

 

[RedLoredAmazon]

Hi! Welcome to the forum!

Your piggy looks really sweet and adorable. I cannot help as I don't have much piggy knowledge. The more experienced piggy experts will be on later on; they are all pretty much in the UK and are all sleeping right now. Please try not to worry too much and get some rest tonight.

 

[Wiebke]

View attachment 169956horrible photo of her. She looks like a Argente in this one. Though maybe my fears are running wild with me with all this and she really is a Argente lilac/white and the lilac is so light that my eyes are playing tricks on me and registering it as she coat is dirty.

Hi!

Please take a DEEP breath!

Just from the size of the eyes, your piggy is not looking like a lethal to me. Those are normal sized eyes and and not the distinctly smaller ones and often white/blue eyes of lethals.

Have a look at this video from The Excellent Adventure Sanctuary (TEAS) Facebook page of a lethal sanctuary resident living and interacting happily with a group of seeing sows; you will see how different the eyes of a lethal are and how much the girl communicates by touch and smell - but also how well she is integrated into the group.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1824624687667880

Blindness does happen and it can affect any breed. Blindness is not the end of the world and blind piggies can live a perfectly normal, enriched life as I know from my various cataract piggies, some of them with very advanced ones. Sight is the weakest sense in guinea pigs (it is the strongest in humans so there is usually a lot of upset) whereas guinea pigs just get on with it. They will compensate by smell, touch and hearing, their stronger senses; blindness is more visible in new surroundings but you won't often notice once they are fully at home.
It may likely surprise you to hear that the brindle (black and ginger aby) in my enrichment guide had actually congenital cataracts ended up blind for all intents and purposes. You also want to watch the green video link of 7 years old blind Mali doing athritic waddle-zoomies by following her own scent spoor, just to show you how much fun there is out there, irrespective of whether you can see or not!
Here is the link: Enrichment Ideas for Guinea Pigs

The biggest mistake you can make is wrapping a piggy with a sensory impairment or disability in cotton wool. The more you challenge them, them happier and richer a life they will have. You can move stuff (hides, tunnels cosies etc.) around but please never fully cleaned stuff - they need their scent markings to re-orient themselves.

If in any doubt, please have her vet checked for potential blindness. But take heart - it is not the end of the world. Since nobody has told your teddy girl that she may be lacking a sense, as far as she is concerned, she is simply living a normal life with zoomies, popcorning and all the naughty bits.

 

[Merab]

What a very pretty girl you have there. I do have a soft spot for teddies.

If she is blind, please don’t worry.
Merab, the piggy in my avatar went blind with cataracts and continued to live perfectly normally.
She still did zoomies and happily trotted all over the place with her 2 companions.
As a blind old lady she bonded well when I introduced her and her surviving companion with another pair of sows.
The only thing that slowed her down was age.

 

[Phoenix Kitteh]

Thank you all for the input. I was really in full panic mode yesterday, and I'll admit that with my anxiety I tend to do major freak outs. I've raised up blind and special needs animals before, but never a baby piggy and it had me a bit freaked out. Especially because my skinny pig is very much top Piggy and can be a bit bossy. I introduced them together for the first time last week and they are still working things out. Not to the extent of being mean and biting and everything but does tend to be a little over bossy and chases her away from things. And if she is blind it's making it a bit harder and my heart cries for her when I see her being chased.

From the bottom of my heart, thank you.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you all for the input. I was really in full panic mode yesterday, and I'll admit that with my anxiety I tend to do major freak outs. I've raised up blind and special needs animals before, but never a baby piggy and it had me a bit freaked out. Especially because my skinny pig is very much top Piggy and can be a bit bossy. I introduced them together for the first time last week and they are still working things out. Not to the extent of being mean and biting and everything but does tend to be a little over bossy and chases her away from things. And if she is blind it's making it a bit harder and my heart cries for her when I see her being chased.

From the bottom of my heart, thank you.

Hi!

That is just normal for the post-intro dominance phase in which the group gets fully established. Most people think that bonding is just a quick intro of a few hours when in fact it takes around 2 weeks to establish the new group in full. The dominance phase is about working out the fine print of the relationship but it doesn't say anything about how firm friends they will become. Babies are always very firmly put in their place at the bottom of the rankings. What you are reporting is very par for the course.
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

 

[Phoenix Kitteh]

Hi!

That is just normal for the post-intro dominance phase in which the group gets fully established. Most people think that bonding is just a quick intro of a few hours when in fact it takes around 2 weeks to establish the new group in full. The dominance phase is about working out the fine print of the relationship but it doesn't say anything about how firm friends they will become. Babies are always very firmly put in their place at the bottom of the rankings. What you are reporting is very par for the course.
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

Yes I know it's natural and that's why I don't tend to intervene. The only time I do is when it comes to feeding time because Eir tends to chase Frigg away or takes her vegetables away from her. It's hard enough to get the baby to eat veggies because she hasn't learned that they're good for her. And by intervene all I do is put piece of the C&C cage up to divide them while they eat. It just hurts my heart seeing her get chased around with her being blind is all but I know it's all the nature of the beast and it can take a couple months even for them to work it out. Luckily we have not had any actual biting except for when the baby kept nibbling Eir's year for the first two days which she did not like one bit. Like I said my fear is just taking care of a blind baby because I've never done it before. I took her to the vet today and had her get checked out and she's gaining weight like she's supposed to and everything looks good. But the vet said from what she has heard from me it does sound like she is either partially or fully blind. I just hope Eir ends up calming down and being a good big sister to Frigg.

I attached a photo of Eir....the queen piggie.

 

[Freela]

Her eyes look very normal to me, not like a lethal, which tend to have small or noticeably different eyes. Guinea pigs do not have the best eyesight under normal circumstances and blind pigs (if that's even the case) tend to do just fine. They really much more on smell. I have had piggies lose vision from cataracts as they age and it really didn't slow them down much at all. It's very possible that she can see just fine but is anxious and prone to startle into things. I've had sighted pigs run into things when suddenly spooked or really excited (one of my past pigs used to popcorn into walls when she was excited for some reason.) Hope this helps a bit! She is very cute... I have a soft spot for animals with red and pink eyes. Right now both piggies have darker eyes but we do have a Syrian hamster who is orange and white with red eyes.

 

[Wiebke]

Yes I know it's natural and that's why I don't tend to intervene. The only time I do is when it comes to feeding time because Eir tends to chase Frigg away or takes her vegetables away from her. It's hard enough to get the baby to eat veggies because she hasn't learned that they're good for her. And by intervene all I do is put piece of the C&C cage up to divide them while they eat. It just hurts my heart seeing her get chased around with her being blind is all but I know it's all the nature of the beast and it can take a couple months even for them to work it out. Luckily we have not had any actual biting except for when the baby kept nibbling Eir's year for the first two days which she did not like one bit. Like I said my fear is just taking care of a blind baby because I've never done it before. I took her to the vet today and had her get checked out and she's gaining weight like she's supposed to and everything looks good. But the vet said from what she has heard from me it does sound like she is either partially or fully blind. I just hope Eir ends up calming down and being a good big sister to Frigg.

I attached a photo of Eir....the queen piggie.

If the chasing and food bullying is persistent, then acceptance may not have happened. It generally should start to settle down noticeably after the first 2-3 days.

 

[Phoenix Kitteh]

If the chasing and food bullying is persistent, then acceptance may not have happened. It generally should start to settle down noticeably after the first 2-3 days.

It's not an all the time thing, because I have caught them on camera snuggled up in the same hiddie or eating together at night. My skinny just honestly isn't well socialized with other piggies because she spent her first year of life alone. As I said there's been no biting or nipping she just likes to chase the little one around. Though I have heard and known of some cases where bonding can take weeks.