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Peeing Blood But My Vet Is All Out Of Ideas

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Booknerd

Booknerd

Junior Guinea Pig
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Jan 30, 2015
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Location
Essex, UK
Hi everyone,

First I have and am still undergoing veterinary advice. The reason why I am turning to you guys is because I feel like there is something wrong that is not being picked up on and I want other pig owners experiences to help me get my piglet better!

Please, if you have any experience of blood in urine, please help me! I don't feel like I am getting anywhere and I know something is wrong.

REALLY SHORT SUMMARY FOR ANYONE WITH NO TIME:
  • 3.5 year old female
  • Not neutered
  • On a calcium controlled diet
  • Has had three X-rays and does not have stone or sludge (can upload X-rays on request) most recent X-ray today
  • But did have a stone in january which was removed
  • Is on a high dose of Baytril which is not working (0.75 ml x2 a day on 2.5% solution)
  • Has a swollen and bacteria ridden bladder BUT
  • Has had two lab tests on her urine and both came back with nothing
  • Is bleeding in pee
  • Is crying out
  • Vet doesn't know what to do next
  • Lives in Essex

Detailed summary (for those with more time):

  • December 2015: Doris starts peeing blood, we take her to the vet and get an X-ray done, it shows up small stone, the vet puts Doris asleep and manages to work the stone out her tube with just some lubricant and no need for surgery. Puts Doris on baytril (exact dose I cannot remember) for a few weeks incase of a UTI. (Not making any noises of pain when she pees).
  • February 2016: Doris still peeing the odd bit of blood but does not make any noise when she pees. We give her a second x-Ray and this picks up nothing.
  • March and April 2016: Doris is very on and off with the blood spotting, for about a month we saw no blood and she made no noises of pain. Then it started again. Throughout this time she was on and off of Baytril for a few weeks at a time.
  • May 2016: Doris started making noises of pain, vet says there is a lot of bacteria in her bladder. Took two samples on separate occasions to send to a lab but both times the lab reports came back with nothing. Vet says Doris has an incredibly swollen bladder and puts her Baytril dose up to 0.75ml x2 a day (2.5% solution), and Metacam 0.6ml once a day dose
  • June 2016: Doris has been on this dose of Baytril for four weeks. But no difference. Her pain seems to be increasing. We notice her 'bits' look a bit lumpy.Took her back straight away for another X-ray while she was awake (due to the vet wanting to know straight away if she was blocked). No blockages and bladder looks fine. Vet gives her some probiotic cookies.

As it stands, our vet us contacted another vet who is an exotic specialist, but whether they are pig experts I'm not convinced. They have said keep her on Baytril for up to 6 weeks and a low calcium diet.


I KNOW there is something wrong but I don't seem to be getting anywhere as you can see. Surely these antibiotics would have worked by now.

I'm urgently seeking advice on:
- whether anyone thinks this could be something else and if so, what?
- is there another antibiotic my vet could be giving me?
- are there any x Ray experts that could look at her X-rays and tell me their second opinion ?
- if anybody knows any amazing vets who can help me in Essex (happy to travel further if they open on Saturdays)

All your help is so gratefully received! I know my vet would listen to me if I had suggestions so please help me if you have any advice or experience whatsoever.

I know there's so many threads on here but please help me!

Diet:
  • Oxbow Orchard Grass Hay
  • Wilkinsons a Timothy hay (high street)
  • Romaine lettuce (5 times a week)
  • Carrot (peelings) 5 times a week
  • Round lettuce (twice a week)
  • Cucumber (three times a week)
  • Fruit (Apple, banana, orange, grapes) a few times a week
  • Nuggets: Country Value
  • Bottled water with 10mg calcium per ml



tumblr_o494f6iXrb1s64esro1_500.jpg
 
I can't offer too much help but my pig Sam (who I sadly had to have PTS yesterday as he had a massive stone in his uretha) had blood in his urine from February and was squeeking in pain when he went to the toilet.X Ray found no stones but the vet flushed his bladder and he was put on metacam for bad arthritis they discovered on the X-ray.I think the bladder flush helped and the metacam helped with his bladder which was inflamed as well as the arthritis, he always had blood in his wee but don't know why.Is your girl on pain relief? Also cystease or vegan glucosamine might help as the glucosamine coats the bladder walls.Sorry I can't offer a lot of help xx
 
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May I recommend Monica who is a very good exotic vet. She only does Thursdays at Orchid Vets in Brentwood. There is another vet called Lawton and Stokes in Harold wood I think but I have never used them he has very good credentials. They do charge extra for referrals so check prices. I hope this helps.
 
I would ask the vet to try Septrin, Baytril isn't very good for bladder infections. Septrin is widely used.
 
Could your guinea have IC which is a non bacterial form of cystits that antibiotics doesn't work on. Jericho had it last year, tried 3 - 4 times on antibiotics and painkillers, the last time someone mentioned IC, I mentioned it to the vet he was seeing at the time and she spoke to another vet who is a guinea specialist who said it could be IC and suggested Jericho had half a capsule of cystophan per day plus anti inflammatory. Jericho is doing well now, put the weight back on that he lost, haven't seen any blood in a while, no squeaking while going to the toilet. He hasn't had meds since around December last year.

I'm not saying yours has IC, I'm just asking if he could have it, also I would have to agree with @flintstones if it was the bacterial form of cystits then Septrin (or sulfatrim which is more or less the same) would work better (so I've been told by lots of people).

I hope you find the cause.

@helen105281 knows about IC.
 
flintstones said:
I would ask the vet to try Septrin, Baytril isn't very good for bladder infections. Septrin is widely used.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I have been reading about this drug, do you happen to know of any veterinary sources or articles on this that I could show my vet?

Also do you know what drug is used alongside it? I read it must be accompanied by an anti inflammatory drug.

Thank you for your help
 
Kerrie74 said:
Could your guinea have IC which is a non bacterial form of cystits that antibiotics doesn't work on. Jericho had it last year, tried 3 - 4 times on antibiotics and painkillers, the last time someone mentioned IC, I mentioned it to the vet he was seeing at the time and she spoke to another vet who is a guinea specialist who said it could be IC and suggested Jericho had half a capsule of cystophan per day plus anti inflammatory. Jericho is doing well now, put the weight back on that he lost, haven't seen any blood in a while, no squeaking while going to the toilet. He hasn't had meds since around December last year.

I'm not saying yours has IC, I'm just asking if he could have it, also I would have to agree with @flintstones if it was the bacterial form of cystits then Septrin (or sulfatrim which is more or less the same) would work better (so I've been told by lots of people).

I hope you find the cause.

@helen105281 knows about IC.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for telling me of your experience, as this may very be something that really helps Doris. I will make sure I talk to my vet about this as an option.


Is Cystophan a treatment for cystitis?

I read that Cymalon is a good one but I'm not sure.

I am keeping all my fingers crossed your fur-baby continues to heal x
 
Gem789 said:
I can't offer too much help but my pig Sam (who I sadly had to have PTS yesterday as he had a massive stone in his uretha) had blood in his urine from February and was squeeking in pain when he went to the toilet.X Ray found no stones but the vet flushed his bladder and he was put on metacam for bad arthritis they discovered on the X-ray.I think the bladder flush helped and the metacam helped with his bladder which was inflamed as well as the arthritis, he always had blood in his wee but don't know why.Is your girl on pain relief? Also cystease or vegan glucosamine might help as the glucosamine coats the bladder walls.Sorry I can't offer a lot of help xx
Click to expand...


Hi thank you so much for commenting. Yes she is on Metacam for the pain at the minute and she loves it!
I will look into vegan glucosamine, thank you!
 
Sue S said:
May I recommend Monica who is a very good exotic vet. She only does Thursdays at Orchid Vets in Brentwood. There is another vet called Lawton and Stokes in Harold wood I think but I have never used them he has very good credentials. They do charge extra for referrals so check prices. I hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Thanks Sue, I will give these a look!
 
The anti inflamitory used along side it is the metacam that is also for pain relief - agree could be ic - as a last resort you could opt for a CT scan - if piggy is insured then exotic direct will pay 50 %. of the cost - a CT is expensive - can be around £500 - (my vet called in a favour and got the scan and reporting done for £140 ) - this would show practically everything on your piggy) - for example it showed tiny stone on the tip of Bumbles penis bone which was causing his pain and blood in we - arthritis in both knees - enlarged lymph nodes ( he was fighting an infection at the time so this is why they were enlarged ) small cyst in his liver - and a thickened bladder wall.
 
So sorry your Girl isn't well. Alby had blood in urine and my vet have him metacam (7/8 drops daily.) and an injection of I think it was "marbacil?" Or something like that every 2nd day. He had 3 injections in total then the blood was gone.

I also read somewhere (can't remember where) that carrots can irritate the bladder so I've stopped giving him carrots now. Think it's to do with the sugar content in them.
Hope she gets better soon.
 
I too was thinking IC which is basically inflammation of the bladder and can be treated with a Glucosamine based product like Cystease, aswell as Metacam. I also changed my pigs' pellets to grainless ones and the only veg I feed my IC pigs is the following twice a day:

1 slither of spring greens
1 piece of cucumber
1 piece of celery
1 piece of pepper (rotate the colours weekly)
1 green bean
1 sprig of coriander

Grains can lead to inflammation, which is why I feed grainless pellets.
 
Sorry to hear your little one is poorly! Everyone above has given great advice- but i would add that u should try cutting out the orchard grass and carrot. Feed different types of timothy hay, and try her on the IC diet listed above. Grainless pellets are a good idea too- vitakraft emotion, "bunny" guinea pig pellets or JR farm grainless (i've just bought this one to try).

My girl has suffered with this for at least a year- she is currently staying in the vets having scans and xrays. She is painful, losing her appetite and as a result, has dental spurs again after a month of having them burred down.

Hope you get on top of it soon x
 
Hi guys thanks for all your help but I am a tiny bit confused.

What is the difference between Glucosamine and cystitis treatment?

Can I find something that contains both or do you generally purchase them separately?
 
Cystease and other similar products are glucosamine based, so you would use one or the other. I was discussing these with my piggy vet last night, but as my girls inner bladder wall is inflammed and not the outter, glucosamine is unlikely to help her. I dont know if this helps you any? Hope she picks up soon x
 
Thank you, Jericho is ok at the moment :) cystophan and the one Helen mentioned both good, depends on what your vets goes with :) If your vet needs more info on IC there are vet likes Ellie who works at Alfreton Park who are able to advise :) Also Rachel who @TAN
 
Rachel Mowbray @ vale vets in Dursley is my piggy specialist - they are a vet referrals practice so deal with referrals and cases of last resort - she is always happy to speak to other vets and sorted out @dragonhinanshios Guinea pig after her vets messed her around for 6 months and wanted to remove part of Smudges foot,
 
If you are thinking of Cymalon (which I think you mentioned earlier), that in the past has been used by people like Peter Gurney to help when treating a UTI, is a human cystitis treatment. IC is not the same as normal cystitis.
 
Adelle said:
Sorry to hear your little one is poorly! Everyone above has given great advice- but i would add that you should try cutting out the orchard grass and carrot. Feed different types of timothy hay, and try her on the IC diet listed above. Grainless pellets are a good idea too- vitakraft emotion, "bunny" guinea pig pellets or JR farm grainless (i've just bought this one to try).

My girl has suffered with this for at least a year- she is currently staying in the vets having scans and xrays. She is painful, losing her appetite and as a result, has dental spurs again after a month of having them burred down.

Hope you get on top of it soon x
Click to expand...

Can I just ask why no orchard grass? I have heard that Readigrass is not a good option for IC pigs but am not familiar with not giving Orchard grass, I need to adjust my IC pig's hay if so as she has been having it for years.
 
helen105281 said:
If you are thinking of Cymalon (which I think you mentioned earlier), that in the past has been used by people like Peter Gurney to help when treating a UTI, is a human cystitis treatment. IC is not the same as normal cystitis.
Click to expand...


Oh right! I was confused and thinking that Cymalon was a treatment for IC. So to confirm: the treatment for IC is Cystease/cystophan?

I have emailed some cavy vets asking if they would be willing to help me explore these options and converse with my vet as I think Doris may have IC.

However as Cymalon (for her suspected UTI) is over the counter, does anybody know if the treatment needs to go through the vet? I wondered if it would be worth trying this alongside her antibiotics while I wait for the next lot of get advice?
 
helen105281 said:
Can I just ask why no orchard grass? I have heard that Readigrass is not a good option for IC pigs but am not familiar with not giving Orchard grass, I need to adjust my IC pig's hay if so as she has been having it for years.
Click to expand...

One of the vets at the practice i attend is more specialised with piggies, but i tend only to see her for second opinions or if my usual vet isnt available as my usual vet has been excellent with my girls, and tbh i dont like the more "specialised" vets attitude.. Anyway, the more piggy savvy vet advised me to stick to pure timothy hay for crunchie as its lower in calcium (which i knew), and says that readigrass and "grass" hays are known to be triggers in a few of the pigs she treats that have bladder issues. I switched my girls hay around as i was buying dust free hay/alfalfa king which is pretty expensive and was getting pee'd on. I felt bad only feeding them it in a rack as piggies like to rummage, so i now also give meadow hay in a tray. Crunchie didnt seem to have flares more frequent until lately, and it seems (still being investigated as we speak) that her bladder is the root of her issues- she now has spurs again 1 month after having a dental. She thinks shes eating less due to bladder pain. When she comes back she will now be back on strict timothy hay, strict IC veggies (i already feed that but give lettuce too as she hasnt had a great appetite lately and loves lettuce, but il be cutting that out now) and switching her pellets to a different brand. I was feeding bunny, I'm now going to try JR farm grainless. Glucosamine based products wont help as its the inner lining of her bladder that they fear is now becoming ulcerated due to chronic inflammation. Shes already on antibiotics and double dose metacalm.. So they only thing i can try to help her is adjusting her diet. Contemplating cutting out pellets altogether although wary of that because she barely eats her veg as it is. Protein in urine is consistantly high so they are looking at kidney issues now too. I'm gutted; but iv warned them she wont be getting a dental until they find the cause of her pain. IF she pulls theough another anesthetic, she will end up needing another if we dont find the actual problem. If we dont, i wont be putting her theough a dental at all as there eeally is no point and unfair to her :-(
 
Adelle said:
One of the vets at the practice i attend is more specialised with piggies, but i tend only to see her for second opinions or if my usual vet isnt available as my usual vet has been excellent with my girls, and tbh i dont like the more "specialised" vets attitude.. Anyway, the more piggy savvy vet advised me to stick to pure timothy hay for crunchie as its lower in calcium (which i knew), and says that readigrass and "grass" hays are known to be triggers in a few of the pigs she treats that have bladder issues. I switched my girls hay around as i was buying dust free hay/alfalfa king which is pretty expensive and was getting pee'd on. I felt bad only feeding them it in a rack as piggies like to rummage, so i now also give meadow hay in a tray. Crunchie didnt seem to have flares more frequent until lately, and it seems (still being investigated as we speak) that her bladder is the root of her issues- she now has spurs again 1 month after having a dental. She thinks shes eating less due to bladder pain. When she comes back she will now be back on strict timothy hay, strict IC veggies (i already feed that but give lettuce too as she hasnt had a great appetite lately and loves lettuce, but il be cutting that out now) and switching her pellets to a different brand. I was feeding bunny, I'm now going to try JR farm grainless. Glucosamine based products wont help as its the inner lining of her bladder that they fear is now becoming ulcerated due to chronic inflammation. Shes already on antibiotics and double dose metacalm.. So they only thing i can try to help her is adjusting her diet. Contemplating cutting out pellets altogether although wary of that because she barely eats her veg as it is. Protein in urine is consistantly high so they are looking at kidney issues now too. I'm gutted; but iv warned them she wont be getting a dental until they find the cause of her pain. IF she pulls theough another anesthetic, she will end up needing another if we dont find the actual problem. If we dont, i wont be putting her theough a dental at all as there eeally is no point and unfair to her :-(
Click to expand...
I am so sorry that you are going through a tough time too. I keep my fingers crossed for you x
 
Hi guys I just wanted to give
flintstones said:
I would ask the vet to try Septrin, Baytril isn't very good for bladder infections. Septrin is widely used.
Click to expand...
hi. I managed to get Septrin but my vet said that the manufacturers are discontinuing it and gave me a prescription to get it from a pharmacy. Do you know if there is another brand name?
 
Kerrie74 said:
Thank you, Jericho is ok at the moment :) cystophan and the one Helen mentioned both good, depends on what your vets goes with :) If your vet needs more info on IC there are vet likes Ellie who works at Alfreton Park who are able to advise :) Also Rachel who @TAN
Click to expand...
Hi, my vet gave my cystophan (half a capsule daily) do you know he best way for me to give it to her? :) thank you
 
Hi @Booknerd when Ellie (a guinea specialist) from Alfreton vets advised the vet I was seeing near to me she told her it was half a capsule, so I don't know really, I would go with what your vet has said or inbox Alfreton Park Hospital on FB. What I was actually doing was using the whole capsule, mixing it with I think it was 1ml of water then giving half, the thing with that though is the some of the water evaporated so I'd have to add more water XD Half a capsule worked perfectly well for Jericho with metacam/inflacam. Like I keep saying, he's doing well now, put the weight back on that he lost and isn't on meds anymore, hasn't been for about 5 or 6 months now :) Oh also I took him to see a exotics vet who went along with the same dosage as Ellie suggested.

@helen105281 also has experience with this, so she might be able to advise as well.

I think vets tend to advise different amounts, not sure why, but like I said, go with what your vet said or ask Alfreton vets about it, there is a lovely person that answers their inboxes that give great advice.

@Gem789 Cystophan and Cytease are made by different companies from what I can gather on Google, maybe the ingredients are more or less the same? Not sure though.
 
They are roughly the same thing. I used to dose at a full capsule but go with what your vet has suggested as they may be starting lower with the intention of increasing the dose if needed.
 
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