Ongoing Mystery Eye Issues

[JaseChase]

Hi everyone, I'm wondering if anyone has had any similar experiences to this or if anyone has a clue what might be going on

Tofu (3 year old boar) has been back and forth to the vet in the last 3-4 weeks with ongoing eye issues. Some background on him: he's had haypoke in his right eye 4 times in the last year and a half, three of them resulted in ulcers, one of which was particularly nasty. He now has permanent spots/marks in that right eye, as well as brown staining under his top eyelid, and probably very limited sight on that side. He's on a long term painkiller (dog rheumocam) which has helped him a lot

About four weeks ago I noticed both his eyes looked weepy and he had constant white runny fluid around the lower part of both of them. Took him to the vet, he was on isathal antibiotic eye drops for a week which didn't clear it up, then he was on a steroid eye drop (I think it was dexamethasone) which also had no effect. Today the vet gave me a third and final eye drop to try (Acular, a non-steroidal one) and also put in a referral to an exotics vet because she said she can't diagnose what's going on and he could do with seeing a specialist. She has checked for and ruled out respiratory issues, dental issues, and eye ulcers.

Just wondering if anyone has any similar experiences or clue what might be going on? My vet is good and fairly knowledgable about guinea pigs, she isn't sure what the permanent marks or staining in his right eye are and her best guess about the weepiness/runny eyes is that he's reacting to something in his environment, or he might be sensitive after all the hay pokes. Someone on here before suggested osseous metaplasia and the marks in his eye do look similar to some early pictures of that

Waiting to hear from the exotics vet hopefully soon, not sure how worried I should be. Otherwise he's completely fine, his weight is stable and he's eating and popcorning and still comes running for veggies. He is a bit more irritable than usual and there's been some more dominance between him and Noodle but nothing beyond the ordinary

I'll share some pictures of his eyes below, thank you for any input!

This is the white runny/weepy eyes he's been having the last few weeks (it's on both sides but he'd only pose this way around):



These are the older permanent marks in his right eye:

 

[Wiebke]

Hi everyone, I'm wondering if anyone has had any similar experiences to this or if anyone has a clue what might be going on

Tofu (3 year old boar) has been back and forth to the vet in the last 3-4 weeks with ongoing eye issues. Some background on him: he's had haypoke in his right eye 4 times in the last year and a half, three of them resulted in ulcers, one of which was particularly nasty. He now has permanent spots/marks in that right eye, as well as brown staining under his top eyelid, and probably very limited sight on that side. He's on a long term painkiller (dog rheumocam) which has helped him a lot

About four weeks ago I noticed both his eyes looked weepy and he had constant white runny fluid around the lower part of both of them. Took him to the vet, he was on isathal antibiotic eye drops for a week which didn't clear it up, then he was on a steroid eye drop (I think it was dexamethasone) which also had no effect. Today the vet gave me a third and final eye drop to try (Acular, a non-steroidal one) and also put in a referral to an exotics vet because she said she can't diagnose what's going on and he could do with seeing a specialist. She has checked for and ruled out respiratory issues, dental issues, and eye ulcers.

Just wondering if anyone has any similar experiences or clue what might be going on? My vet is good and fairly knowledgable about guinea pigs, she isn't sure what the permanent marks or staining in his right eye are and her best guess about the weepiness/runny eyes is that he's reacting to something in his environment, or he might be sensitive after all the hay pokes. Someone on here before suggested osseous metaplasia and the marks in his eye do look similar to some early pictures of that

Waiting to hear from the exotics vet hopefully soon, not sure how worried I should be. Otherwise he's completely fine, his weight is stable and he's eating and popcorning and still comes running for veggies. He is a bit more irritable than usual and there's been some more dominance between him and Noodle but nothing beyond the ordinary

I'll share some pictures of his eyes below, thank you for any input!

This is the white runny/weepy eyes he's been having the last few weeks (it's on both sides but he'd only pose this way around):

View attachment 251443View attachment 251444View attachment 251445

These are the older permanent marks in his right eye:

View attachment 251447View attachment 251448

Hi

If the white bits are not disappearing, they look to me like the beginnings of harmless osseous metaplasia to me?

The replacement of eye tissue by bone tissue in a jagged ring around the eye especially in older guinea pigs is not uncommon at all. It is untreatable but not painful, just a little bit unsightly and all it does is limiting the field of sight a little for the affected guinea pig. But of course no antibiotic would work because it is not infection.
Links - Eye Conditions - Guinea Lynx Records

My Maelog developed a more advanced form of it s he got old (he died at ca. 7 years of age).
You can see that the white ring is not even or quite complete:

 

[JaseChase]

Hi

If the white bits are not disappearing, they look to me like the beginnings of harmless osseous metaplasia to me?

The replacement of eye tissue by bone tissue in a jagged ring around the eye especially in older guinea pigs is not uncommon at all. It is untreatable but not painful, just a little bit unsightly and all it does is limiting the field of sight a little for the affected guinea pig. But of course no antibiotic would work because it is not infection.
Links - Eye Conditions - Guinea Lynx Records

My Maelog developed a more advanced form of it s he got old (he died at ca. 7 years of age).
You can see that the white ring is not even or quite complete:
View attachment 251452

Thanks Wiebke

that's certainly true of the white dots on his right eye and confirms what I thought that could be, which is reassuring. The bit my vet is concerned about is the white runny fluid under both his eyes, not just his right, and the fact that his eyes are constantly weeping and have been for several weeks now. Can't find an obvious cause of it, though the vet said they're definitely inflamed. She initially thought it was conjunctivitis, then maybe him reacting to something in his environment, but said the exotic vet referral would hopefully get to the bottom of what's going on

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks Wiebke

that's certainly true of the white dots on his right eye and confirms what I thought that could be, which is reassuring. The bit my vet is concerned about is the white runny fluid under both his eyes, not just his right, and the fact that his eyes are constantly weeping and have been for several weeks now. Can't find an obvious cause of it, though the vet said they're definitely inflamed. She initially thought it was conjunctivitis, then maybe him reacting to something in his environment, but said the exotic vet referral would hopefully get to the bottom of what's going on

Are you using any potential irritants or perfumes?
Irritants to Avoid Around Guinea Pigs

There are some more 'out there' bugs around but that really needs a specialist vet and perhaps a lab test.

 

[JaseChase]

Are you using any potential irritants or perfumes?
Irritants to Avoid Around Guinea Pigs

There are some more 'out there' bugs around but that really needs a specialist vet and perhaps a lab test.

I don't think I've got any of the irritants around (I'm asthmatic and have to avoid them myself too

) but I'll double check, thanks for the reminder. There haven't been any major changes in his environment since the weepy eyes started either - we moved house a few months back, long before this started, and I upgraded their cage last week when the weepiness had been going on for a few weeks already, but used all the same fleece and bits to make the new one

Waiting on the call from the exotics vet, but just thought I'd post here on the off chance someone might have an idea what's going on - he's perfectly fine in himself so it's hard to know whether to worry or not! Going to try the acular eye drops tonight and see if that has any effect but my vet wasn't convinced they'd help after the other two didn't

Her only other suggestion was it might be a sensitivity to dust or hay or something similar to human hay fever. I don't know if that's possible in guinea pigs? But I'm by no means an expert!

 

[Wiebke]

I don't think I've got any of the irritants around (I'm asthmatic and have to avoid them myself too

) but I'll double check, thanks for the reminder. There haven't been any major changes in his environment since the weepy eyes started either - we moved house a few months back, long before this started, and I upgraded their cage last week when the weepiness had been going on for a few weeks already, but used all the same fleece and bits to make the new one

Waiting on the call from the exotics vet, but just thought I'd post here on the off chance someone might have an idea what's going on - he's perfectly fine in himself so it's hard to know whether to worry or not! Going to try the acular eye drops tonight and see if that has any effect but my vet wasn't convinced they'd help after the other two didn't

Her only other suggestion was it might be a sensitivity to dust or hay or something similar to human hay fever. I don't know if that's possible in guinea pigs? But I'm by no means an expert!

Allergies are very rare in guinea pigs but sensitivities to hay or house dust or grass pollen can occasionally happen.

 

[JaseChase]

Just a quick update as we've been to the exotics vet specialist yesterday

He was very knowledgable and did a thorough examination of both of Tofu's eyes, so many different tests! They showed up that Tofu has definitely got some kind of mass/growth in his right eye, that could well be heterotropic bone formation but also could be a ciliary body adenoma. It's grown a little bit since I first noticed it, but not enough to be a problem right now. The vet managed to get a really good picture of it (sorry for the green gunk, that was leftover from one of the tests)



Tofu also has much less tear production in his right eye than his left, and the vet has given me some lubricating eye drops to hopefully make him more comfortable. The vet thinks that Tofu's weepy eyes and white fluid is probably his tear production overcompensating for the dry eye - it might clear up with the drops, it might not, but it's nothing to worry about either way

The vet checked all the reflexes in Tofu's right eye and couldn't see any reason he might have limited sight, but it's difficult to confirm either way. He wants to monitor the mass to make sure it doesn't grow or interfere with Tofu's quality of life in any way, and in the long run we might end up needing to remove the eye. He doesn't have any glaucoma or blood pressure issues, though his right eye does bulge slightly more than his left

Both Tofu's eyes show corneal irritation, probably as the result of him loving to dive through hay and then rub his eyes He also had slight damage to the top of his left eye, but no ulcer was present at the time

So the treatment plan is to use the lubricating eye drops three times a day to hopefully make him more comfortable, continue with the painkiller, and monitor the mass in his eye closely to make sure it doesn't grow. He's going back to the specialist in a couple of months for a check up, and I'm going to keep a close eye to make sure nothing else nasty shows up as he really does love to dive head-first into hay piles

I'm feeling relieved it isn't anything more serious and a very manageable condition! I'm aware that the bone growth can be fairly common in older guinea pigs, Tofu is only three and a half but he has had a few nasty ulcers in that right eye that might be a contributing factor. I couldn't find much about it on the internet, and the vet said it's fairly rare to see, so this thread might help someone else in the future looking up a similar problem

Tofu is getting extra coriander today as he was very grumpy after having his eyes poked and prodded so much yesterday! Noodle went with him for emotional support and they're both zonked out today

 

[Wiebke]

Just a quick update as we've been to the exotics vet specialist yesterday

He was very knowledgable and did a thorough examination of both of Tofu's eyes, so many different tests! They showed up that Tofu has definitely got some kind of mass/growth in his right eye, that could well be heterotropic bone formation but also could be a ciliary body adenoma. It's grown a little bit since I first noticed it, but not enough to be a problem right now. The vet managed to get a really good picture of it (sorry for the green gunk, that was leftover from one of the tests)

View attachment 253145

Tofu also has much less tear production in his right eye than his left, and the vet has given me some lubricating eye drops to hopefully make him more comfortable. The vet thinks that Tofu's weepy eyes and white fluid is probably his tear production overcompensating for the dry eye - it might clear up with the drops, it might not, but it's nothing to worry about either way

The vet checked all the reflexes in Tofu's right eye and couldn't see any reason he might have limited sight, but it's difficult to confirm either way. He wants to monitor the mass to make sure it doesn't grow or interfere with Tofu's quality of life in any way, and in the long run we might end up needing to remove the eye. He doesn't have any glaucoma or blood pressure issues, though his right eye does bulge slightly more than his left

Both Tofu's eyes show corneal irritation, probably as the result of him loving to dive through hay and then rub his eyes He also had slight damage to the top of his left eye, but no ulcer was present at the time

So the treatment plan is to use the lubricating eye drops three times a day to hopefully make him more comfortable, continue with the painkiller, and monitor the mass in his eye closely to make sure it doesn't grow. He's going back to the specialist in a couple of months for a check up, and I'm going to keep a close eye to make sure nothing else nasty shows up as he really does love to dive head-first into hay piles

I'm feeling relieved it isn't anything more serious and a very manageable condition! I'm aware that the bone growth can be fairly common in older guinea pigs, Tofu is only three and a half but he has had a few nasty ulcers in that right eye that might be a contributing factor. I couldn't find much about it on the internet, and the vet said it's fairly rare to see, so this thread might help someone else in the future looking up a similar problem

Tofu is getting extra coriander today as he was very grumpy after having his eyes poked and prodded so much yesterday! Noodle went with him for emotional support and they're both zonked out today

View attachment 253146

Hi

Glad that you and your vet have been able to get to the bottom of it.

Osseus metaplasia (bony tissue replacement) is common on top of the eye either in a circle around the rim or as dots on the eye surface but I have not come across it inside the anterior chamber in 15 years on this lively forum. Internal growths are also rare. I suspect a genetic link for that reason.

Tissue replacement is not painful but reduced cleaning fluid and over-compensating with tear fluid will cause the same irritation you get from a longer term dry eye, as can the slight swelling of the eye.

Thankfully, sight is the weakest cavy sense while it is our strongest human sense so it is more like us losing our sense of smell (which would actually have major consequences for guinea pigs in lots of crucial areas - appetite/picking up food, reading pheromones/social and biological interaction, orientation etc.).

I am certainly interested in how things develop since this is very unusual indeed. All the best!

PS: Here is my thread about my Meleri's eye removal operation if you are interested: Please keep your fingers crossed for Meleri's eye removal operation!

 

[JaseChase]

Hi

Glad that you and your vet have been able to get to the bottom of it.

Osseus metaplasia (bony tissue replacement) is common on top of the eye either in a circle around the rim or as dots on the eye surface but I have not come across it inside the anterior chamber in 15 years on this lively forum. Internal growths are also rare. I suspect a genetic link for that reason.

Tissue replacement is not painful but reduced cleaning fluid and over-compensating with tear fluid will cause the same irritation you get from a longer term dry eye, as can the slight swelling of the eye.

Thankfully, sight is the weakest cavy sense while it is our strongest human sense so it is more like us losing our sense of smell (which would actually have major consequences for guinea pigs in lots of crucial areas - appetite/picking up food, reading pheromones/social and biological interaction, orientation etc.).

I am certainly interested in how things develop since this is very unusual indeed. All the best!

PS: Here is my thread about my Meleri's eye removal operation if you are interested: Please keep your fingers crossed for Meleri's eye removal operation!

Thank you Wiebke! I did have a good search through this forum for anything similar before posting about it and couldn't find anything that presented quite the same. The vet was surprised to see the growth coming from the inside/behind the eye in the ciliary body as well (he did draw me a diagram, but I don't quite understant all the terminology!) He said he usually sees this kind of growth coming through the pupil first, rather than the edges. He also said that an earlier ulcer picture I had on Tofu's records showed some tissue coming through where it shouldn't, which might be a contributing factor. That was this picture from his third haypoke last year:



The vet said we could do an ultrasound to give us more information about where the growth is coming from, but as it wouldn't change the treatment plan for the moment, we decided not to do that this time. We might do it at the next check-up depending how things are looking. I'm a little nervous at potentially having to remove the eye in the future, thank you for the thread link about that The vet said if/when we do remove the eye, he can test it to check that there isn't anything in the mass that would pop up anywhere else - but we're not near there at the moment, and it doesn't seem to be growing fast

I'll keep updating this thread as and when anything more happens Tofu is happy to be back home, but I have been noticing more dominance between them since his eye issues flared up, maybe because he's uncomfortable and more irritable? The painkiller helps, and I'm hoping the eye drops might help too if he's feeling uncomfortable with the dry eye and irritation. Otherwise he is completely fine, eating and popcorning for veggies and his weight has been stable throughout

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you Wiebke! I did have a good search through this forum for anything similar before posting about it and couldn't find anything that presented quite the same. The vet was surprised to see the growth coming from the inside/behind the eye in the ciliary body as well (he did draw me a diagram, but I don't quite understant all the terminology!) He said he usually sees this kind of growth coming through the pupil first, rather than the edges. He also said that an earlier ulcer picture I had on Tofu's records showed some tissue coming through where it shouldn't, which might be a contributing factor. That was this picture from his third haypoke last year:

View attachment 253147

The vet said we could do an ultrasound to give us more information about where the growth is coming from, but as it wouldn't change the treatment plan for the moment, we decided not to do that this time. We might do it at the next check-up depending how things are looking. I'm a little nervous at potentially having to remove the eye in the future, thank you for the thread link about that The vet said if/when we do remove the eye, he can test it to check that there isn't anything in the mass that would pop up anywhere else - but we're not near there at the moment, and it doesn't seem to be growing fast

I'll keep updating this thread as and when anything more happens Tofu is happy to be back home, but I have been noticing more dominance between them since his eye issues flared up, maybe because he's uncomfortable and more irritable? The painkiller helps, and I'm hoping the eye drops might help too if he's feeling uncomfortable with the dry eye and irritation. Otherwise he is completely fine, eating and popcorning for veggies and his weight has been stable throughout

All the best. With much better diagnostics, we are coming up against new issues all the time. The ciliary body basically surrounds the eyeball and holds the lens right in front of it by framing it; it needs muscle tension to do that. A guinea pig eye is not very different from a human eye.
It means that the eyeball itself is not affected. Any raised pressure in there would be glaucoma, which is very rare in guinea pigs. Most swollen eyes are actually pushed out by an absess behind the eyeball (retrobulbar abscess).

Eye problems in guinea pigs generally affect the surface (cornea), the anterior chamber (where the iris is located), the lens (cataracts) or the connective tissue between the eye and the lids (the conjunctiva).
Unbloody hay pokes (the vast majority) get stuck in the anterior chamber; if they penetrate further into the eyeball and cause bleeding, this is very serious and can lead to needing an eye removal, depending on the extent of the damage.

I hope that this picture and my explanation help you? As stated, this is a new one...

 

[JaseChase]

All the best. With much better diagnostics, we are coming up against new issues all the time. The ciliary body basically surrounds the eyeball and hold the lens right in front of it by framing it. A guinea pig eye is not very different from a human eye.
It means that the eyeball itself is not affected. Any raised pressure in there would be glaucoma, which is very rare in guinea pigs. Most swollen eyes are pushed out by an absess behind the eyeball (retrobulbar abscess).

Eye problems in guinea pigs generally affect the surface (cornea), the anterior chamber (where the iris is located) or the lens (cataracts) or the connective tissue between the eye and the lids, the conjunctiva.
Unbloody hay pokes (the vast majority) get stuck in the anterior chamber; if they penetrate further into the eyeball and cause bleeding, this is very serious and can lead to needing an eye removal, depending on the extent of the damage.

I hope that this picture and my explanation help you? As stated, this is a new one...

View attachment 253154

That is really helpful actually! The diagram is similar to the one the vet drew me - he did his best with scratchy biro on kitchen towel at least haha. My usual vet had at first guessed the bulging might be glaucoma, but the specialist tested the blood pressure and didn't find any issues so we've ruled that one out, which is a relief. No sign of an abcess either so the specialist thinks it's the mass in the ciliary body likely causing a slight bulge - it is only very slight, I can't tell by comparing it with his left eye on my own. He does still flinch when touching above/around his right eye, which he doesn't with his left, but the painkiller has helped with that

It's all very interesting, and I'm glad doesn't seem to be impacting Tofu too much yet. I had a look through Meleri's eye removal thread as well and it's nice to see how well that healed up, and how losing an eye/sight doesn't impact guinea pigs very much with it not being their strongest sense - I think that may be where we end up eventually (though hopefully not for a while!)

 

[JaseChase]

Just another quick update as Tofu went for his checkup today - and it was good news! The mass hasn’t grown at all and the pressure in his eyes is also good and within normal range (the pressure for his left eye is actually higher than his right with the mass, surprisingly)

The specialist vet had been doing some research since our last appointment, and consulted with another exotics specialist who feels pretty strongly that it’s heterotrophic bone formation rather than a tumour - which is more good news. Still in the ciliary body rather than on the surface of the eye but thankfully harmless. The vet wants to keep monitoring to make sure it doesn’t grow or start increasing the pressure

Treatment is to continue with the daily metacam & lubricant eye drops, which have definitely made Tofu happier, and to come back in another two months for a checkup. I’m also to keep monitoring at home and if I notice any changes then take him back in sooner

Tofu is a happy little man at the moment with his new friend, and the meds definitely have him feeling better. We’ve also not had a single hay poke since starting the drops, which is probably coincidence but a nice one all the same!

 

[Wiebke]

Just another quick update as Tofu went for his checkup today - and it was good news! The mass hasn’t grown at all and the pressure in his eyes is also good and within normal range (the pressure for his left eye is actually higher than his right with the mass, surprisingly)

The specialist vet had been doing some research since our last appointment, and consulted with another exotics specialist who feels pretty strongly that it’s heterotrophic bone formation rather than a tumour - which is more good news. Still in the ciliary body rather than on the surface of the eye but thankfully harmless. The vet wants to keep monitoring to make sure it doesn’t grow or start increasing the pressure

Treatment is to continue with the daily metacam & lubricant eye drops, which have definitely made Tofu happier, and to come back in another two months for a checkup. I’m also to keep monitoring at home and if I notice any changes then take him back in sooner

Tofu is a happy little man at the moment with his new friend, and the meds definitely have him feeling better. We’ve also not had a single hay poke since starting the drops, which is probably coincidence but a nice one all the same!

Glad that Tofu is better, that his meds work and that his problem is not malign. It's the first time I have come across bone formation deeper in the eye than on the surface. But there is a world of weird and wonderful conditions out there...

 

[Wheekallweek]

So glad Tofu is doing well! I bet Patches is too