Ongoing dental issues many surgeries done. Roots? Mandibular?

[Jloveslife22]

Hi everyone,

My name is Jess I'm from Brisbane, Queensland Australia and have such an unusual case I felt sharing the story here may be worthwhile incase someone has answers. I've hunted google many times and keep landing on posts here with answers. Will try do a brief summary keep it super clear.

I have 4-5yr old boy he grew up with me his name is Toby. Fine all his life then January this year suddenly stopped eating. To cut it short my vet saw his back teeth looked overgrown so he had dental surgery. Recovered well but 4 wks later same problem. Had a second dental but this time a massive abcess occurred in his neck. He recovered again from both same problem a month later so had a third dental surgery. Abcess came back on third dental. He was now on antibiotics Baytril and Bactrim for 4mths and metacam and finally after loads of home care the abcess healed and he avoided other dentals. Stopped all meds and metacam and within a month he was having trouble eating again lost a front tooth which has not come back so my vet did a fourth dental surgery. Something terrible happened after this one his other front tooth was not in place moving left right everywhere and his mouth wasn't fully closing but after two weeks critical caring he once again started eating despite this.

Stopped meds and antibiotics again and he was eating fine for a week then yesterday a month on again he couldn't pick up food properly. I was about to take him to the vet for potentially a 5th dental but felt we've missed something so I gave him metacam and antibiotics and within the hour he started being able to eat again and he's eating today on the painkiller and antibiotic.

So here's my poor boy 4 dentals later now a bottom front tooth that moves everywhere and I've cancelled my vet appt today as I do not believe it's his back teeth at all due to the fact once on metacam and antibiotics he's now eating.

He's happy in himself no other issues weight good etc.

My suspicion is was his mandibular joint damaged in that last surgery a month ago re the bottom tooth never staying where it should and is this actually a tooth root issue? He's had no x-rays my vet was not doing them trying to help save me money but am thinking get one done just ask him?.

Would love to hear from anyone with experience here.

Oh also his brother now has issues aswell a missing front tooth this year now an abcess in the throat region no dentals done but vet had a quick check and said his back teeth are very close together. On metacam and painkillers he to has started eating better. Am thinking same with him is the main issue tooth roots despite yes back teeth overgrowth due to his improvement also on meds.

Diet is: Oaten hay, Timothy hay, Orchard grass hay, grass, Oxbow pellets, Cavy origins pellets a new Australian one alot like I started recently, veggies daily usually capsicum and three others.

Bedding is bath mats fleecy beds etc. All indoors.

Jess.

 

[Jloveslife22]

Sorry I forgot to mention for several months now despite surgery he can only eat veggies in small cut up strips he can eat these fine but can't eat solid pieces no idea why.

Happy to get photos or videos of his front tooth etc if anyone thinks they may know what's going on. Jess

 

[Wiebke]

Hi and welcome

I am not a dental specialist but that incisor sounds like it is broken; it may hinder food pick up. Incisors are about 4 cam long and run along the upper and lower jaw to roots just in front of the premolars and molars. Piggie can live with one or two incisors missing.

But it definitely sounds like an ongoing pain issue. I would not take him off the metacam again.
An x-ray may help bring clarity as to what is going on with the tooth and whether there is a problem in the jaw/damage from the last dental or whether it was a bad reaction to the GA.

 

[Jloveslife22]

Hi and welcome

I am not a dental specialist but that incisor sounds like it is broken; it may hinder food pick up. Incisors are about 4 cam long and run along the upper and lower jaw to roots just in front of the premolars and molars. Piggie can live with one or two incisors missing.

But it definitely sounds like an ongoing pain issue. I would not take him off the metacam again.
An x-ray may help bring clarity as to what is going on with the tooth and whether there is a problem in the jaw/damage from the last dental or whether it was a bad reaction to the GA.

Thanks so much for your reply I agree yes keep him on the metacam I was only doing antibiotic aswell just incase there's infection we can't see but the quick improvement yes totally was the metacam. Yes will definitely organise an x-ray soon I've never seen anything like it what happened from that last operation. Interesting re the general being a possibility of a cause didn't think of that.

 

[Wiebke]

@furryfriends (TEAS)

 

[Free Ranger]

I had a girl with an incisor root issue but we didn't spot it till the vet pulled the bottom gum pocket right down to see where the tooth met the gum. Zara's tooth is shown below - you couldn't see the crusty excess growth normally. You can see how the bottom incisors were slanting as she tried to chew without putting pressure on the bad tooth. We think the damage was from some months prior when she charged the cage bars with bared teeth. The excess growth might have been the tooth trying to repair itself but you can see how red and nasty it went at the bottom.

Do you think the dentals were somehow causing the abscesses? Or that the teeth problems were a result of them?

 

[weepweeps]

My Pepper has had a tooth root abscess recently. Once it had cleared up (after about 8 weeks) he then lost an incisor. It is growing back but it is deformed. I’m keeping a very close eye on his weight and also the tooth. My vet said an abscess can kill off the roots of the teeth. He also said a wobbly tooth is dangerous because it may stop them eating properly or cause another abscess. I also cut Peppers veg into strips for him. Good luck

 

[Bill & Ted]

My Bill broke an incisor and it unbalanced all the others. Do one would break, grow back then another would become really thin and then break. he never actually had any problems eating at all. He did have regular conscious burrs with Simon our vet who said his back teeth were perfect. he eventually grew what is called a “fat tooth” which is wider and stronger than the rest it’s part of the imbalance it causes.
If his incisor is wobbling then it may be broken below the gumline and needs to come out. When Bill broke first broke his incisor that was exactly what the tooth was like, very wobbly and it actually came out on the way back from the vets. He was booked in to have the broken part removed the following morning. The gum can become infected if a fracture is below the gumline
Here is a before and after photo of Bill’s incisors after a conscious dental burr from Simon Maddock, his amazing vet

 

[Bill & Ted]

Sorry I forgot to mention for several months now despite surgery he can only eat veggies in small cut up strips he can eat these fine but can't eat solid pieces no idea why.

Happy to get photos or videos of his front tooth etc if anyone thinks they may know what's going on. Jess

What a gorgeous boy, he sounds like he’s been through so much, sending hugs.

 

[Jloveslife22]

Hi everyone, I've found the problem finally today since he was responding to metacam. Yes I believe he has another tooth root abcess it was hard to find it there's a small lump right under his jaw it's not a full blown abcess. I'm soo glad I didn't take him to my vet he would've done a 5th dental surgery and yes I do believe evert abcess he's had was caused by these surgeries and the ruined front tooth moving everywhere.

I have him on metacam and Baytril will that be enough to kick it? I have Bactrim at home aswell.

No x-rays have ever been done but my vet was trying to keep costs down I could switch to another exotics vet who is very pricey we only have a few guinea vets in my state but the exotics vet at Redcliffe does dentals daily they said and has 20yrs experience. My vet worked in the UK and also has loads of experience but I find every surgery he's done has never gone smoothly. I'd need to do a fundraiser or GoFundMe to see the exotics vet with him I cannot afford what she will charge I know she'd do x-ray and consult is $140 then anything else on top. I've spent thousands on Toby at my vet this year.

I have one other theory that maybe although his back teeth wernt perfect what if this whole time he just had infection and each time as he wasn't eating he had a dental done eek! That means I could've wasted thousands of dollars and 4 dentals later over infection the whole time. I never had time to test the theory the first time.

Anyhow so my diagnosis is yes another tooth root abcess if anyone knows the best treatment thank you again I have metacam, Baytril and Bactrim at home have him on metacam .2ml twice daily and Baytril .25ml twice daily currently.

Jess.

 

[Jloveslife22]

Everyone my vet does send me photos of Toby's back teeth before and after the ops he did if anyone has a good eye and would know if that needed to be done or not I can post the pictures? I just want to be sure they definitely needed it eek and it wasn't just infection this whole time eek!

I'll also get a video of this front tooth issues I don't think it's broken it's hard to explain it just has no stable base....

 

[Jloveslife22]

Hi everyone, finally Toby sat still enough so I can show you this bottom tooth. Hope you can see what I mean yes it is attached now I didn't get when he eats but the bottom one basically moves left and right what I mean is you know how you have the two upper teeth centred in place beside each other then the two bottom? What I mean is that that bottom one that is left (the other never grew back fell out just before the 4th dental about 6wks ago), basically it doesn't sit centred its attached to the gum yes but is further in than it should be and literally moves left and right at the base never stays in the centre. This happened after the last surgery. Gosh it's sooo hard to explain it's like of you look at your own bottom teeth it's as though you could move one and the gum to a whole other place that's how his tooth moves it's like the gum.itself is not stable. You'll see what I mean at the end of the video when he closes his mouth it moves wayyy left.

Sorry just getting the video on YouTube to share here as is too large.

 

[Jloveslife22]

Hi everyone, here is the video: November 8, 2022. Let me know if the link doesn't work or if it doesn't load. I'm so thankful he finally let me do this argh been trying for a couple of weeks now. The surgery was 4wks ago and thats how he came out re the bottom tooth but one was already missing he'd lost 2wks prior which has not grown back but this one was in its normal place prior to surgery.

 

[weepweeps]

Hiya. Here is Peppers story of his abscess. There’s lots of advice in it from everyone on here. They really helped me. I would think the wobbly tooth needs to come out. Can you pull it out gently? It will either grow back or not. Peppers is growing back but it’s very weak and thin. I would recommend Zithromax antibiotic. Baytril didn’t help at all. He was on it for two weeks and then the abscess showed up. Teeth problems are so annoying and hard to deal with. Good luck.

Dental? Pepper is off to the vets tomorrow

 

[Free Ranger]

@furryfriends (TEAS) could you take a look at that video? Toby is a glossy beauty but looks a bit toothy to me...
@Jloveslife22 I think your assessment about jawline infection/abscesses is a completely viable conclusion

Incisors
If you compare with Zara's top teeth in the photo above with Toby's top incisors in the video his look a lot longer than they should be. The opposing bottom incisors are the only thing stopping the top ones growing (and vice versa) so if a piggy has no bottom incisors or an ineffective one like Toby's they will need the top ones to be burred regularly - and incisors grow like billy-o so within a few weeks a problem can crop up. My vet reckons that if a piggy has just one solid bottom incisor that can be enough to curtail the top two but Toby's is all over the shop and I bet it's just getting in his way. I've said 'burred' rather than clipped as clipping teeth can sometimes cause damage like splitting... I've not seen the tool they use but my vet describes it as like a small circular saw that you press against the incisor. I've had a couple of piggies done by a generalist vet - there's no need for anaesthetic but you do need someone to hold piggy firmly. It only takes a few minutes. It can be very precise. One girl had just a couple of mm shaved from the top of one tooth, leaving the other untouched

He might be eating OK at the minute but if the top ones keep growing at that rate eventually he won't be able to close his mouth properly and that will begin to cause molar trouble again, so it does need sorting out by someone. Whether they extract the wayward bottom one or just burr it very short and let nature take it's course is something the vet will have to decide. Has he lost much weight throughout all this or does he weigh about the same?

Abscesses
I have no personal experience here but it's quite possible that pain from an undetected abscess caused him to stop eating in the first place. I had a little sow who had to have a dental and the vet warned me that sometimes it's purely a tooth thing but sometimes it's a different primary cause and the stopping eating is a symptom - so the teeth overgrow as a secondary thing. This was the case for my girl. The fact that abscesses were detected after (or during?) surgeries might be complicating matters. They were in the neck area(?) but that doesn't necessarily mean that there's not something insidious lurking in the jaw. They're supposed to stink during removal but I don't know whether you can smell anything unpleasant on his breath? I'm thinking about the unexpected loss of that first bottom incisor I suppose.

Timeline..? @Jloveslife22 can you check this is about right?

January, stopped eating - 1st dental - Recovered well (was he on meds here? Antibiotics and/or painkillers?)
but
1 month later, stopped eating again - 2nd dental - Abscess found on neck (during surgery? or afterwards?) - Recovered from both surgery and abscess (meds?) but
1 month later, stopped eating again - 3rd dental - Abscess came back (found in surgery? or afterwards? in same place?) - Recovered again after 4 months on Baytril, Bactrim and metacam.
When these were stopped...
1 month(ish) later, stopped eating again and lost a bottom incisor - 4th dental - remaining bottom incisor now wobbling everywhere - Recovered (Meds for how long? CC at home) and eventually meds were stopped
but
1 month(ish) later we are here and he stopped eating again but started again when you gave him the painkiller and antibiotics.

If this is a fair timeline, it's looking like a problem that the antibiotic is tackling but not completely clearing. I too would be worried about a 5th dental (I mean a 5th! He's incredibly resilient!) because there's no reason that the same thing wouldn't happen again. Looking back after his 3rd dental when he was on the meds for a very long time the pattern is broken - he didn't need another dental after about 1 month like before, this time it was 4 months and only when the meds were stopped did his problems start again.

If this sounds about right, I'd be thinking the dentals are treating the symptom (teeth) not the cause (infection?) and that you need to (1) make sure he can keep eating by keeping him on meds until you can see a vet again, (2) get those incisors burred down before further mischief occurs, (3) investigate whether there might be undetected infection in his gums. I don't know whether x-ray detects abscesses - sorry I've no experience about that. The Zithromax antibiotic mentioned above has been used on forum pigs with abscesses. Try searching the forum for Zithromax and have a read. He's been on ABs for a while so his gut might need extra support with probiotics but it sounds like you are a dedicated piggy nurse. Keep an eye on his brother too if he's dropped a tooth as well.
Take care guys x