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One year old piggie - long term metacam

ConfusedMamapig

New Born Pup
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Hi there. Our little piggie Whizz has just been put on Metacam (0.8ml twice daily) and the vet is suggesting it may well be for the rest of his life. He's just a year old and I'm worried whether this is sustainable? We thought he was a happy, healthy little piggie until a few days ago when I found blood in his wee. The vet has x rayed him and he has a bladder stone, arthritic knees and overgrown tooth roots. (We are a v sad as we thought he was fit and healthy and he is much loved). The vet recommended not removing the stone as she felt it would likely reoccur. The issues she felt were the result of overbreeding and whilst they couldn't be solved, they could be managed with Metacam (long term), Nutracys+ (short term) and ongoing vit c supplement. Has anyone experience of these sorts of issues and a similar treatment plan in a piggie so young? Also Whizz is a hopeless drinker. I am hoping if his teeth are more comfortable he might be less wary of the water bottle but any other suggestions to get a reluctant pig to drink...as I know this would help keep his system flushed out. Thank you!
 
Hi, I am very sorry for the problems your piggy has :( Sadly, bladder stones shouldn't be left as they can cause great deals of pain and can become lodged in the urethra (even more dangerous in males) causing blockage which is a medical emergency. Is your vet trained in guinea pig dentistry? As for the metacam, there is no issue with long term use. My Ellen had IC from the age of 6 months old until she died at the age of 5 and was on a daily dose of metacam for all that time with no ill effects. There are a few guinea pigs on the forum who are on long term metacam
 
Hi, I am very sorry for the problems your piggy has :( Sadly, bladder stones shouldn't be left as they can cause great deals of pain and can become lodged in the urethra (even more dangerous in males) causing blockage which is a medical emergency. Is your vet trained in guinea pig dentistry? As for the metacam, there is no issue with long term use. My Ellen had IC from the age of 6 months old until she died at the age of 5 and was on a daily dose of metacam for all that time with no ill effects. There are a few guinea pigs on the forum who are on long term metacam
Thanks for that...it is reassuring to know metacam can be an effective long term solution. It came as a bit of a shock all these problems. I quizzed the vet about removal of the stone / possible blockage. She felt that the stone was too large to be a blockage risk and that removal would lead to reoccurence within a short space of time. The vet is an exotics specialist...is that true that if you keep removing them they just come back?
 
Thanks for that...it is reassuring to know metacam can be an effective long term solution. It came as a bit of a shock all these problems. I quizzed the vet about removal of the stone / possible blockage. She felt that the stone was too large to be a blockage risk and that removal would lead to reoccurence within a short space of time. The vet is an exotics specialist...is that true that if you keep removing them they just come back?
They don't necessarily always come back. What's his diet like? Are you feeding him a low calcium diet and are you filtering his drinking water especially if you live in a hard water area? Tap water contains a lot of calcium
 
I would advise you to get a second opinion. Stones shouldn’t be left especially in boars.

Recommended Guinea Pig Vets

The other thing is please, for your own data safety, change your location to county/town rather than your postcode. You need to be careful about what you put on the internet. It is easily seen and accessed by anyone.

I’m going to report your post so it can potentially be done for you, if you don’t do it soon 🙃
 
I’m sorry your piggy is poorly. I hope the painkillers help him. Being on them for life is fine. But I wouldn’t leave a stone untreated.
 
I would advise you to get a second opinion. Stones shouldn’t be left especially in boars.

Recommended Guinea Pig Vets

The other thing is please, for your own data safety, change your location to county/town rather than your postcode. You need to be careful about what you put on the internet. It is easily seen and accessed by anyone.

I’m going to report your post so it can potentially be done for you, if you don’t do it soon 🙃
Gosh...I didn't realise that was visible. Thank you! Just went to change it but I think its been done. Good ideas re a second opinion.
 
They don't necessarily always come back. What's his diet like? Are you feeding him a low calcium diet and are you filtering his drinking water especially if you live in a hard water area? Tap water contains a lot of calcium
Daily veggies - he's a bit fussy...cucumber, peppers, lettuce (occasional tomato, beetroot, carrot, parsley and apple), a little handful of picked grass (daily), timothy hay plus pets at home nuggets. Yes, filtered water, typically he's not been a great drinker but interestingly since he's on the pain relief he seems to be much more interested in the bottle.
 
Parsley is high in calcium so given he has a stone I would cut that out entirely. How much do you give him in terms of nuggets?
 
Parsley is high in calcium so given he has a stone I would cut that out entirely. How much do you give him in terms of nuggets?
Oh that's good to know. I shall ditch the parsley. I give him about 30g of nuggets daily but I think the tooth pain has put him off them because he's left a lot in the last month or so. Hopefully the pain relief will change that. He's a skinny soul...only about 875g. His hay is unlimited, I'd love to get a bit more food in him.
 
I've recently discovered that pets at home nuggets are made with alfalfa. I'm new to guinea pigs but I've decided to either mix the food or swap out the pets at home completely. I think alfalfa can contribute to bladder stones. I'm still learning so may be wrong.
 
30g is too much. Pellets (and water) contain more calcium than high-calcium veg. Hence the recommendation to limit them to a tablespoon a day. You may find that’s only around 6-8g depending on the pellets.

Weigh once daily at the same time (preferably morning) and top him up. For a piggy not eating enough, you aim for minimum 60ml in a 24 hour period. So a minimum of 5ml every two hours. If you don’t have any critical care or recovery food to hand, you can soak his pellets and syringe feed him that for now.
Not Eating, Weight Loss And The Importance Of Syringe Feeding Fibre
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
 
I've recently discovered that pets at home nuggets are made with alfalfa. I'm new to guinea pigs but I've decided to either mix the food or swap out the pets at home completely. I think alfalfa can contribute to bladder stones. I'm still learning so may be wrong.

Hi and welcome!

Please follow the advice in our special diet chapter in our diet guide; we have got a section with detailed practical advice on looking after guinea pigs with long term urinary tract problems: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Please weigh your boy daily at the same time to see whether he may need feeding support; depending on the pain level.
Emergency Resources and Critical Illness Care - Contents list and subforum link

Arthritis in young guinea pigs is thankfully pretty rare but it occasionally happens. The metacam is working on both the massive pain from the stone and the arthritis. The stone will unfortunately need to come out. Boars have a very awkward inglenook in their urethra where stones generally fetch up and are much more difficult to get out than from the bladder. A larger stone can also block the urethra. You want to find a vet who is experienced with operating on guinea pigs (which are unfortunately classed as exotic pets and are therefore not featuring large on a general vet's curriculum).
Recommended Guinea Pig Vets
 
30g is too much. Pellets (and water) contain more calcium than high-calcium veg. Hence the recommendation to limit them to a tablespoon a day. You may find that’s only around 6-8g depending on the pellets.

Weigh once daily at the same time (preferably morning) and top him up. For a piggy not eating enough, you aim for minimum 60ml in a 24 hour period. So a minimum of 5ml every two hours. If you don’t have any critical care or recovery food to hand, you can soak his pellets and syringe feed him that for now.
Not Eating, Weight Loss And The Importance Of Syringe Feeding Fibre
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
Oh gosh...right. Fewer nuggets. It's really misleading, the 30g was the lower end of the recommended amount on the packaging so I thought I was doing the right thing. On the positive side Whizz has never been particularly excited by his nuggets so he's probably only actually been taking one tablespoon a day! I will definitely adjust for my other piggies too. They will think they're being rationed tonight!
 
Oh gosh...right. Fewer nuggets. It's really misleading, the 30g was the lower end of the recommended amount on the packaging so I thought I was doing the right thing. On the positive side Whizz has never been particularly excited by his nuggets so he's probably only actually been taking one tablespoon a day! I will definitely adjust for my other piggies too. They will think they're being rationed tonight!

Take the time to read the urinary tract problems diet chapter. ;)
 
Hi and welcome!

Please follow the advice in our special diet chapter in our diet guide; we have got a section with detailed practical advice on looking after guinea pigs with long term urinary tract problems: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Please weigh your boy daily at the same time to see whether he may need feeding support; depending on the pain level.
Emergency Resources and Critical Illness Care - Contents list and subforum link

Arthritis in young guinea pigs is thankfully pretty rare but it occasionally happens. The metacam is working on both the massive pain from the stone and the arthritis. The stone will unfortunately need to come out. Boars have a very awkward inglenook in their urethra where stones generally fetch up and are much more difficult to get out than from the bladder. A larger stone can also block the urethra. You want to find a vet who is experienced with operating on guinea pigs (which are unfortunately classed as exotic pets and are therefore not featuring large on a general vet's curriculum).
Recommended Guinea Pig Vets
Thanks for this, great form btw. Its odd because the vet practice is an exotics specialist, in fact I found them from the recommended vets page on the forum. I think I will go back and query the decision about the stone, as it seems to run counter to general consensus. I don't have another exotics vet anywhere near...is it sensible to ask for a second opinion within a practice or would I likely get the same answer...plus deeply offend them!
 
Thanks for this, great form btw. Its odd because the vet practice is an exotics specialist, in fact I found them from the recommended vets page on the forum. I think I will go back and query the decision about the stone, as it seems to run counter to general consensus. I don't have another exotics vet anywhere near...is it sensible to ask for a second opinion within a practice or would I likely get the same answer...plus deeply offend them!
I think it depends on how you ask for it. If you were to say it's because you don't trust the vet, then yes, it might offend. However, if you said it's because you're concerned for the reasons outlined in other posts above (e.g. could cause more complications later; have heard other viewpoints)), then they should understand and be professional about it.

Ultimately, you're the paying customer and want the best result for your piglet, so don't be afraid! Just be kind about it. :)
 
I imagine it happens all the time and they're pretty thick skinned.
I guess you have to be thick skinned to work in the profession ;) My vet often asks other vets for a second opinion if she isn't sure on something. I would rather have a vet who is willing to do that than to harm my piggies as they don't want to be proved wrong
 
I think it depends on how you ask for it. If you were to say it's because you don't trust the vet, then yes, it might offend. However, if you said it's because you're concerned for the reasons outlined in other posts above (e.g. could cause more complications later; have heard other viewpoints)), then they should understand and be professional about it.

Ultimately, you're the paying customer and want the best result for your piglet, so don't be afraid! Just be kind about it. :)
I agree.
 
This is going to sound a bit depressing so sorry in advance.

There are risks to surgery and these should be explained to you before you decide on this option. This include the risks of general anaesthetic as well as the shock from the surgery and trying to get them eating again afterwards. There is also a genuine risk of stones reforming in some pigs, but you don't know whether your little chap will be one of them... and tbh I'm not sure whether anything is known for sure about why the stones reform. They might be able to give you some indication of what their success rates are, and some idea of whether his relatively rare arthritis will affect his outcome.

Balanced against this is the pain and inflammation the stone will be causing him now, and the fact that things like bacterial urinary infection will be more likely and that with a large stone he might have pain when pooping (which seems to be pretty much a 24/7 activity). Your little guy has other issues, but he has youth on his side and in your shoes I'd be looking at finding a vet who feels more confident about the surgery option. If you go in with your eyes open and take a chance for him it could be relatively straightforward. It's possible the vet you spoke to earlier is working from their own experience - which may be limited to older piggies. The bare truth is that many people confronted with the prospect of paying hundreds for surgery, then committing to nursing their boy for a while, with a chance of ending up back at square one within a few weeks or months, or the alternative of paying 30 quid to put piggy to sleep here and now will choose the latter (again, especially if piggy is older) and that might be where this vet is thinking things will end up.

But nobody can predict the future and the best thing I can advise is that you put yourself in your own shoes a year from now and 'look back' on the choices and possible outcomes, and see how you feel. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Surgery is hard on them, but he'll have a chance: without it he won't improve and you're marking time till he declines. I'm really sorry for the position you find yourself in - he looks a lovely little fellow 💕

And in case you're wondering yes, I chose surgery for my older boar to give him a chance, and I'd do it again with another although I hope not to be in that difficult position again. We'll be thinking about you x
 
Sorry to hear your little piggy has developed a stone. I really sympathise as my boar (only 2 years old) also suddenly developed stones a couple of months ago. My vet, who is fab, recommended removal ASAP due to the reasons already listed (pain, UTI’s and getting blocked) and he had his surgery the following day. We also realised that he has arthritis in his back legs on his X-ray but his daily metacam and tramadol for his interstitial cystitis (a different bladder problem) helps with his and he is a very happy, active guinea pig.

You’re in a difficult situation and I would definitely recommend getting another opinion if you’re not 100% happy with the first one. Yes, bladder stones can return but they sometimes don’t.

Sending you big hugs, hope you manage to get some answers for your little man! ☺️
 
This is going to sound a bit depressing so sorry in advance.

There are risks to surgery and these should be explained to you before you decide on this option. This include the risks of general anaesthetic as well as the shock from the surgery and trying to get them eating again afterwards. There is also a genuine risk of stones reforming in some pigs, but you don't know whether your little chap will be one of them... and tbh I'm not sure whether anything is known for sure about why the stones reform. They might be able to give you some indication of what their success rates are, and some idea of whether his relatively rare arthritis will affect his outcome.

Balanced against this is the pain and inflammation the stone will be causing him now, and the fact that things like bacterial urinary infection will be more likely and that with a large stone he might have pain when pooping (which seems to be pretty much a 24/7 activity). Your little guy has other issues, but he has youth on his side and in your shoes I'd be looking at finding a vet who feels more confident about the surgery option. If you go in with your eyes open and take a chance for him it could be relatively straightforward. It's possible the vet you spoke to earlier is working from their own experience - which may be limited to older piggies. The bare truth is that many people confronted with the prospect of paying hundreds for surgery, then committing to nursing their boy for a while, with a chance of ending up back at square one within a few weeks or months, or the alternative of paying 30 quid to put piggy to sleep here and now will choose the latter (again, especially if piggy is older) and that might be where this vet is thinking things will end up.

But nobody can predict the future and the best thing I can advise is that you put yourself in your own shoes a year from now and 'look back' on the choices and possible outcomes, and see how you feel. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Surgery is hard on them, but he'll have a chance: without it he won't improve and you're marking time till he declines. I'm really sorry for the position you find yourself in - he looks a lovely little fellow 💕

And in case you're wondering yes, I chose surgery for my older boar to give him a chance, and I'd do it again with another although I hope not to be in that difficult position again. We'll be thinking about you x
Ah thank you. And for sharing your experience. He is a lovely little chap and because he's so young it's so unexpected. I need to understand more of the vets thinking...it's always a bit of a blur when they're talking to you and now I am in processing mode I have lots more questions. We did have a very honest chat about the future and she was hopeful that with the management meds she was giving he might make it to 4 or so. So definitely not thinking short term. I think a massive deciding factor will be seeing how he is now he's back home with the pain management meds because if its still hurting him when he has a wee that's no good. He still managed a super high popcorn tonight, bless him.
 
Sorry to hear your little piggy has developed a stone. I really sympathise as my boar (only 2 years old) also suddenly developed stones a couple of months ago. My vet, who is fab, recommended removal ASAP due to the reasons already listed (pain, UTI’s and getting blocked) and he had his surgery the following day. We also realised that he has arthritis in his back legs on his X-ray but his daily metacam and tramadol for his interstitial cystitis (a different bladder problem) helps with his and he is a very happy, active guinea pig.

You’re in a difficult situation and I would definitely recommend getting another opinion if you’re not 100% happy with the first one. Yes, bladder stones can return but they sometimes don’t.

Sending you big hugs, hope you manage to get some answers for your little man! ☺️
Awwww thank you for sharing...so no sign of a reoccurring stone in your boy? So pleased to hear he is a happy active piggie! That's how we like them.

You are right, it is a difficult situation and I don't want to make the wrong decision. I feel uncomfortable about this difference of opinion from my vet and what people are saying here...I think I shall both explore my original vets opinion in case I have misunderstood plus get another opinion.
 
I had a boar who got a stone, it was also quite a big stone, and he had it removed. The vet said it was our only option as he was in a lot of pain from it. I read up on low-calcium diet, and made changes to his food but he did get another stone a year later, despite LC diet. He had that one removed also. He was famous at the vet's by this point. They still remember him now and this was some years ago. About 6 months after his second surgery I found a pool of blood in the Piggy Palace. I knew it was his, and yes he had got another stone, but the vet said this one was stuck to the wall of his bladder, possibly to the scar tissue from the previous surgeries, and they didn't feel confident that it could be removed without causing major trauma.
We all judged it better to pts at this point - the heavy bleeding, the stone stuck to him, and a suspicious looking mystery mass in his abdomen, and his age, took away all other options. He was one of those pigs who are prone to recurring stones.
I don't regret the surgeries on that pig, he was a super little chap and without the surgeries he'd have been pts much earlier. But he did get a new nickname - The Most Expensive Pig In The World :luv: (and worth every penny...)
 
I had a boar who got a stone, it was also quite a big stone, and he had it removed. The vet said it was our only option as he was in a lot of pain from it. I read up on low-calcium diet, and made changes to his food but he did get another stone a year later, despite LC diet. He had that one removed also. He was famous at the vet's by this point. They still remember him now and this was some years ago. About 6 months after his second surgery I found a pool of blood in the Piggy Palace. I knew it was his, and yes he had got another stone, but the vet said this one was stuck to the wall of his bladder, possibly to the scar tissue from the previous surgeries, and they didn't feel confident that it could be removed without causing major trauma.
We all judged it better to pts at this point - the heavy bleeding, the stone stuck to him, and a suspicious looking mystery mass in his abdomen, and his age, took away all other options. He was one of those pigs who are prone to recurring stones.
I don't regret the surgeries on that pig, he was a super little chap and without the surgeries he'd have been pts much earlier. But he did get a new nickname - The Most Expensive Pig In The World :luv: (and worth every penny...)
Really appreciate hearing your piggie story. He sounds a lovely little chap and I am glad you were able to find your way through such a difficult set of decisions. Their little personalities are priceless, yes they are worth every penny...that's for sure.
 
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