One boar constantly chasing my other boar and fighting him

Jamandherpigs

Jamandherpigs

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Hey, I have two boars one of which chases and fights my other boar. Multiple times a day I hear them chasing around and there are clumps of hair from the sub boar. I am yet to see any blood drawn. What do you guys recommend?
 
I have put a temporary divider in their c&c cage where they can see each other and can sniff each other etc but they are both pacing a lot and trying to get to each other. They will not settle.
 
When you say fight, you have to be very careful to clarify whether you mean an actual fight or simply dominance.

If you have witnessed an actual fight (particularly if repeated) then it is immediately bond breaking - the piggies must be immediately and permanently separated. It’s a failed bond and will only get worse if you leave them together.

If there has not been an actual fight, and you are simply describing dominance with no breakdown in their bond, then you don’t do anything.

How old are they?
How big is their cage?
Do you have multiple resources in the cage ie two houses, two hay piles etc?
Do all hides have two doors?

Jamandherpigs said:
I have put a temporary divider in their c&c cage where they can see each other and can sniff each other etc but they are both pacing a lot and trying to get to each other. They will not settle.
Click to expand...

Yes that will happen. You need to ignore it, and:

- if you have done the separation because of an actual fight, then they cannot be reunited at all.
- if you have done the separation by way of trial of their bond then you need to ignore the pacing behaviours. You need to leave them apart for a few days. In a few days time you can carry out a neutral territory reintroduction. Please do not simply remove the divider and allow them to wander back together, as that will be a territory invasion and will cause a fight. I’d the neutral territory reintroduction goes well, then you clean out and move them back to the cage together. If the neutral territory reintroduction does not go well then the separation must be made permanent.

These kinds of temporary separation cannot be done often otherwise it will risk further destabilising the bond. This is a one time thing to allow them to decide whether they actually want to be together or not.

Please note behaviours between the bars are not always friendly. Some behaviours such as laying against the divider etc are simply hostile territory marking moves - they are not piggies who want to be back together.

Wiebke

Thread 'Bonds In Trouble'

Overview
1 Causes for bonds to fall apart
2 Bonds in Crisis
- What are the signs of a dysfunctional bond?
- Bullying
- How can I test whether a bond is no longer working?
3 Failed bonds and what next?
- What to do if my piggies have had a major fight?
- When rebonding doesn't work out


1 Causes for bonds to fall apart

Every fall-out has of course its...
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Piggies&buns said:
When you say fight, you have to be very careful to clarify whether you mean an actual fight or simply dominance.

If you have witnessed an actual fight (particularly if repeated) then it is immediately bond breaking - the piggies must be immediately and permanently separated. It’s a failed bond and will only get worse if you leave them together.

If there has not been an actual fight, and you are simply describing dominance with no breakdown in their bond, then you don’t do anything.

How old are they?
How big is their cage?
Do you have multiple resources in the cage ie two houses, two hay piles etc?
Do all hides have two doors?



Yes that will happen. You need to ignore it, and:

- if you have done the separation because of an actual fight, then they cannot be reunited at all.
- if you have done the separation by way of trial of their bond then you need to ignore the pacing behaviours. You need to leave them apart for a few days. In a few days time you can carry out a neutral territory reintroduction. Please do not simply remove the divider and allow them to wander back together, as that will be a territory invasion and will cause a fight. I’d the neutral territory reintroduction goes well, then you clean out and move them back to the cage together. If the neutral territory reintroduction does not go well then the separation must be made permanent.

These kinds of temporary separation cannot be done often otherwise it will risk further destabilising the bond. This is a one time thing to allow them to decide whether they actually want to be together or not.

Please note behaviours between the bars are not always friendly. Some behaviours such as laying against the divider etc are simply hostile territory marking moves - they are not piggies who want to be back together.

Wiebke

Thread 'Bonds In Trouble'

Overview
1 Causes for bonds to fall apart
2 Bonds in Crisis
- What are the signs of a dysfunctional bond?
- Bullying
- How can I test whether a bond is no longer working?
3 Failed bonds and what next?
- What to do if my piggies have had a major fight?
- When rebonding doesn't work out


1 Causes for bonds to fall apart

Every fall-out has of course its...
  • Like
Click to expand...
They are about 11 months old I’m new to having boars so I just want to make sure I do the right thing. They live in a 2x5 c&c cage and I was looking to expand before doing the separation. They have 2 of everything within the cage and these are separated to ensure they can each eat in their own space. I have witnessed boar #1 chasing boar #2 and it seems like boar #2 never gets any peace. I have gave them the benefit of the doubt a few times due to no blood being drawn so I thought it to just be dominant but a few times I have seen tufts of boar #2 fur and it seems to be more and more fur. Although they have two of everything, boar #1 will kick boar #2 out of whatever hide/bed etc he is in
 
Chasing is normal but is it becomes relentless and the submissive pig is never allowed to rest, likely loses weight at each weekly weight check due to being chased away from food etc then its possible that you are dealing with bullying. If that is the case then sadly they will never be able to go back together.
If they do need to be permanently separated then each piggy will need a minimum of a 2x3 c&c cage each so you will need to make it bigger.

As well as the bonds in trouble guide I added in my last reply, the bullying guide below will also help you

Wiebke

Thread 'Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?'

Overview
1 The hormonal teenage months
- What are the most difficult times?
- What are your boars' chances of making it together?
- What can help to boost your boys' chances?
- What does NOT work?
2 Fighting, bullying and when to separate
- What are the signs of a dysfunctional bond?
- How can I test whether a bond is no longer working?
- What to do if your boars had a bloody fight?
3 Life after...
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Piggies&buns said:
Chasing is normal but is it becomes relentless and the submissive pig is never allowed to rest, likely loses weight at each weekly weight check due to being chased away from food etc then its possible that you are dealing with bullying. If that is the case then sadly they will never be able to go back together.
If they do need to be permanently separated then each piggy will need a minimum of a 2x3 c&c cage each so you will need to make it bigger.

As well as the bonds in trouble guide I added in my last reply, the bullying guide below will also help you

Wiebke

Thread 'Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?'

Overview
1 The hormonal teenage months
- What are the most difficult times?
- What are your boars' chances of making it together?
- What can help to boost your boys' chances?
- What does NOT work?
2 Fighting, bullying and when to separate
- What are the signs of a dysfunctional bond?
- How can I test whether a bond is no longer working?
- What to do if your boars had a bloody fight?
3 Life after...
  • Like
Click to expand...
Thank you I really appreciate the help I’ve been stressing about this non stop, do you recommend trial separation and then try reintroducing them together in a neutral setting after a few days still and then keep an eye on the submissives weight
 
If the submissive is happier while they are separated, if you have seen fights (the fact you’ve seen hair around the cage concerns me and makes me think they shouldn’t be reunited), if you have seen the submissive being depressed while they were together - if you can definitely conclude that he was being bullied then actually it would be best not reintroduce them. There would be no point in putting them back together because he would just be being put back in an unhappy situation and would end up being bullied all over again. . You can call the bond failed and make the separation permanent.

If you aren’t sure then go ahead and try to reintroduce them on neutral territory. It will become clear during their time within neutral territory whether they can stay together or not. A fight will break out or he will end up being bullied again immediately if the bond is failing. That means that you must immediately separate them again and make the separation permanent.
If all goes well in neutral territory and they are ok together (you will see dominance), and they want to form a functioning bond, then they can stay together and go back to the cage together.

I’ll be honest from what you have said, things don’t sound good at all between them and they should probably remain apart but only you can make the call as to how bad things are.

This is the guide on how to do the neutral territory reintroduction. Please do not use any hides in the bonding pen

Wiebke

Thread 'Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics'

1 Introduction
2 Pre-bonding
- Quarantine and sexing
- The need for a plan B
- The rule-breaker: Youngsters under 4 months (sub-teenage)
3 Setting up an introduction
- Getting to know each other
- ‘Buddy baths’ – why not
- Setting up a neutral bonding area
- How to start the bonding
4 Acceptance phase: Do we like each other?
- Friendly getting to know...
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You do need to weigh them both every week as part of routine care in any event (you then switch to daily weight checks when there are health concerns to enable you from monitor hay intake more closely). Bullied pig may or may not lose weight - it depends on whether the bully is letting him eat or not. Hay should be available in loose piles in multiple areas around the cage so there is always somewhere to eat from. Even if a pig is being bullied then they may still be able to eat freely and not lose weight because the bully can’t guard everything ie not losing weight isn’t a conclusive sign on its own that a pig isn’t being bullied.
Our weight guide is below

Wiebke

Thread 'Weight - Monitoring and Management'

Overview
1 Health monitoring: BMI, weighing, poo out and body changes
- The importance of the weekly health and grooming body check
- Different feedback from BMI, weight, poos and body changes
2 Regular weight monitoring
- How often should I weigh?
- Weighing tips
3 Guidelines for changes in weight
- Weight loss guidelines
- Sudden weight gain and fluctuations
4 Weight and...
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I’ll be honest - if you’re seeing clumps of hair in the cage then I would be thoroughly checking each pig over. It is quite possible there are wounds you haven’t noticed. If there’s any wounds or scabs then blood has been drawn. Even if there isn’t blood if boar 2 isn’t getting any peace then this is a bond that isn’t working. Sorry but they may be best off being separated and living as neighbours.
 
I have "neighboars" now. In my case it's actually my dominant who's much happier as he isn't having to deal with being frequently challenged.
It was definitely the submissive boy starting all the trouble. They didn't get to the point of a fight because we wanted a possibility of them being reunited. Seeing how much more relaxed Dignified Sir George is now makes us keep putting off the rebonding session.
 
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